I was NOT a believer but Cole Caufield is the BEST Player from the 2019 Draft.

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Sure but given that they were 9th and how much better that 8th place team was the following season they were lucky to make the playoffs in a different format for the second straight season, it's not a hard call to make here.

That's luck.



See above.



This is a fair point and if the other poster agrees that the 10th best player on every team is impactful that's another thing but also the term impactful really loses it's meaning here right?

Also like I have stated that's no slight on CC he was 19 but others from the same draft have had more impactful playoffs that he has, which is what this thread is about.

Sure but JT played 2 minutes in that series and sure both weber and Price might have retired because in part they payed through but the point still remains that with a healthy JT it's not a stretch to say that it's very likely that Toronto could win that series right?

JT was the Leafs 3rd leading scorer in the regular season and was great in the dot and played a decent 2 way game at the time.

It's not a stretch to say if the Habs were missing a JT comparable that they wouldn't have won, although the whole postseason did rest on that defensive game and Price.



Seriously none of these guys are even close to the level of replacing a JT in that series.



Yes luck one top line caliber player versus the list of 3rd and 4th line guys you mentioned, The Habs top 4 Dmen and top 3 centers all played 7 games in that series.

Look I'm not denying the run it happened and that's the way it played out but there is a reason why the Habs haven't made the playoffs since that season.
I'm always amazed at the elaborate stories people create to put a different spin on a result they don't like. This reads like a series of excuses and an appeal to the supernatural (luck) to diminish an impressive underdog run. What Montreal did was certainly unexpected, but every bit as legit as the countless underdog stories we often see in the playoffs.
 
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Listen man, they caught lighting in a bottle with Carey Price in a weird year. You can say what you want but the Habs are currently garbage. Live in the past all you want, but right now they are shit...hard stop

He is a small player who can shoot, he's a 2nd liner on a good team
Yikes a little respect for a team that’s basically in year 3 of a rebuild and 3 points out of the WC right now -being carried by 4 guys 25 and under.

No one predicted this. House money
 
not everyone is going like your favourite player as much as you do.

I hate small players, i think they’re a detriment come playoff time, they can’t handle the physicality.

Because of that I have him as the 6th best player from this class and in a tier with Cozens,Wolf and McMichael.

Shocked you haven’t found out yet that not everyone agrees with the opinions you have.
Your opinion is fine, its just that your justification of it is stupid.
 
Sorry you can’t comprehend that I don’t like 5’7” wingers.
Nah that is fine. What i disagree though is you saying that Caufield will suck in the playoffs when he did not suck in them in his rookie season with like 10 games played in the nhl.

1. Claims stupid things.
2. Complain like a little girl when being called out on it. "You don't like my opnion wahhhhhh"
 
Nah that is fine. What i disagree though is you saying that Caufield will suck in the playoffs when he did not suck in them in his rookie season with like 10 games played in the nhl.

1. Claims stupid things.
2. Complain like a little girl when being called out on it. "You don't like my opnion wahhhhhh"
There is only ONE small player (sub 5’8”) that has been a core piece to a cup winner and that is Martin St.Louis, Caufield isn’t St.Louis, even if he’s his coach at the moment.

I’m going to continue to believe this, because he hasn’t made the playoffs since making the NHL full time.
 
There is only ONE small player (sub 5’8”) that has been a core piece to a cup winner and that is Martin St.Louis, Caufield isn’t St.Louis, even if he’s his coach at the moment.

I’m going to continue to believe this, because he hasn’t made the playoffs since making the NHL full time.
How many sub 5’8 core players can you name?

If you bump that arbitrary number to 5’9 i can name a conn smythe winner and another cup winner in brad marchand, but i see why you chose 5’8
 
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There is only ONE small player (sub 5’8”) that has been a core piece to a cup winner and that is Martin St.Louis, Caufield isn’t St.Louis, even if he’s his coach at the moment.

I’m going to continue to believe this, because he hasn’t made the playoffs since making the NHL full time.
The league is completely different than it was when Yvon Cournoyer (5’7 HOFer, Smythe winner) was winning cups with the Habs.

You’re starting to see smaller skilled blueliners come in because the rules have changed. The days of Craig Ludwig being able to clutch and grab are over. The red line is gone and you’re seeing guys like Q Hughes and Hutson come in. It’s a totally different world now.

And yeah, the Canadiens haven’t made the playoffs but that’s in spite of Caufield. I think he’s like second in the league in terms of percentage of goals scored per team.
 
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How many sub 5’8 core players can you name?

If you bump that arbitrary number to 5’9 i can name a conn smythe winner and another cup winner in brad marchand, but i see why you chose 5’8
10th in the NHL in goals this season. His size doesn’t matter. Could he have done this in the age of clutch and grab? Probably not. But it’s a brave new world.
 
I'm always amazed at the elaborate stories people create to put a different spin on a result they don't like. This reads like a series of excuses and an appeal to the supernatural (luck) to diminish an impressive underdog run. What Montreal did was certainly unexpected, but every bit as legit as the countless underdog stories we often see in the playoffs.
I'm always amazed how people don't understand hockey here but sure it's probably bad luck that the Habs haven't had a dynasty this century yet too right?

Like if the Canadians make the playoffs and lose Suzuki in game one with 2 minutes played and lose the series 4-3, Habs fans would never say hey man I think we might have won that series had Suzuki not been hurt right?

Some people are too busy here defending rather than looking at anything that might hurt the pride of their team.

Like I said I've seen the same thing on my Canucks but people are too busy being fans to engage in hockey discourse and defend their teams absolute greatness at all costs.
 
I'm always amazed how people don't understand hockey here but sure it's probably bad luck that the Habs haven't had a dynasty this century yet too right?

Like if the Canadians make the playoffs and lose Suzuki in game one with 2 minutes played and lose the series 4-3, Habs fans would never say hey man I think we might have won that series had Suzuki not been hurt right?

Some people are too busy here defending rather than looking at anything that might hurt the pride of their team.

Like I said I've seen the same thing on my Canucks but people are too busy being fans to engage in hockey discourse and defend their teams absolute greatness at all costs.

You're not 'engaging in hockey discourse'. You're diminishing real hockey results and replacing them with your imaginary what-if, and you're demanding we take it seriously. You're focused on what-if, luck, fluke, magical elves, whatever. That's not hockey talk, it's an emotional coping mechanism. That's what I see here – make-believe stories to help you cope with a result you didn't like.

And when the rest of us don't share your imaginary story, you move onto the next make-believe story – that we don't understand hockey.

If you want an actual hockey discussion, start with respect for actual hockey. That means acknowledging the legitimacy of hockey results, whether you like them or not. The playoffs aren't a random dart throw. The reality is the team that wins is almost always the better team, even if you dislike them.
 
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The league is completely different than it was when Yvon Cournoyer (5’7 HOFer, Smythe winner) was winning cups with the Habs.

You’re starting to see smaller skilled blueliners come in because the rules have changed. The days of Craig Ludwig being able to clutch and grab are over. The red line is gone and you’re seeing guys like Q Hughes and Hutson come in. It’s a totally different world now.

And yeah, the Canadiens haven’t made the playoffs but that’s in spite of Caufield. I think he’s like second in the league in terms of percentage of goals scored per team.
Cournoyer was much faster than Caufield, though the latter is quick. If you ever saw Cournoyer in his prime in street clothes you'd see that he was no pushover. Enormous thighs, thick wrists and forearms which allowed him to rip shots even with the old wooden sticks.

Caufield has made a believer out of me. His consistency is the main thing. He is not up and down like some scorers. Speaks to a dedication to the game, both mentally and physically. I know he isn't much of a defensive player, but if you have a consistent scorer that's very valuable. You probably don't want a team full of them, or you'd have a lot of 10-9 games, but it's nice for a coach to look down the bench and have a 1st option for the PP and goal scoring situations. I take Boldy over him, but it's close. Boldy is able to play a semi-physical game, and PK, and also has a vg offensive game.
 
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Give me Hughes, Lacombe, Seider, Harley, Boldy over him without much thought.

Too small to be a difference maker come playoff time to have over those guys who are studs with size.
These guys have never seen a playoff game. How can you deem them playoff difference makers?
 
You're not 'engaging in hockey discourse'.
Well I actually am as I said so, why would you say otherwise?

This is after all a hockey discussion board right?
You're diminishing real hockey results and replacing them with your imaginary what-if, and you're demanding we take it seriously.
How am I diminishing the results?

I'm stating something quite obvious and I gave the real world example if the Habs lost Suzuki and then lost a game 7 series where it would be an obvious question of "well we might have won that series if Suzuki had not been injured after playing 2 minutes in the first game"

This type of question comes up quite often here do you question it when it comes up or is it dependent on who is asking it?


You're focused on what-if, luck, fluke, magical elves, whatever. That's not hockey talk, it's an emotional coping mechanism. That's what I see here – make-believe stories to help you cope with a result you didn't like.
Thanks for the free pyshcoanalsisy but like msot things free it's not worth it as you have no idea on who I am and in order for me to cope I would need a dog in the race which I don't have as a Cancuks fan but more of a fan of hockey in general.

I don't look at the colour of the jersey when I make any comments or analysis's here.

And when the rest of us don't share your imaginary story, you move onto the next make-believe story – that we don't understand hockey.
I'm commenting on your reaction which is non sensical and if people think that there is no luck involved in hockey (I stated the difference in the shortened Covid year and the divisional realignments for the year after) and your calling it imaginary says more about you than me?

Sure go ahead and disagree but I'm stating things that actually happened and made a comment about it, that's imaginary in your eyes, like really?


If you want an actual hockey discussion, start with respect for actual hockey. That means acknowledging the legitimacy of hockey results, whether you like them or not. The playoffs aren't a random dart throw. The reality is the team that wins is almost always the better team, even if you dislike them.
As for the discussion why would you ay that I don't respect hockey that's just rubbish and unfounded and frankly I have no idea why you would say such a thing about someone you don't know, for what reason I won't speculate or personal with you and your last comment is the reality that I speak of, yes the team that wins the 4 games is the winner but it's not always the best team and sometimes teams take the opportunity of an advantage during a series, like a star player going down after playing 2 minutes in the opener.

I'll restate that i had no dog in the fight, I rarely do as I'm not that type of fan and I'd be care full accusing others of doing something when they don't actually do what you imply.

I have no idea if you want a serious discussion or not but your comments twice here indicate something else.

Anyways the whole discussion has gotten away from the initial point where a player on that team was termed impactful even though another Habs fan put him around 10th on that team which is more or less accurate and thus impactful loses it's meaning.

I've made the argument that CC wouldn't be in my top 5 in a redraft of all players right now going forward, you can agree or disagree but please refrain from bad faith accusations it's not helpful.
 
These guys have never seen a playoff game. How can you deem them playoff difference makers?
You can't imagine large 2 way Dmen who have played in other situations becoming difference makers in the NHL playoffs?

I mean it's a fair comment as often smaller guys have more difficulty in the playoffs right?
 
Cournoyer was much faster than Caufield, though the latter is quick. If you ever saw Cournoyer in his prime in street clothes you'd see that he was no pushover. Enormous thighs, thick wrists and forearms which allowed him to rip shots even with the old wooden sticks.
Roadrunner was faster than everyone:laugh: Sure. But Caufield has his own strengths. Great shot, constantly moving his feet, great at stealing pucks, elusive in the offensive zone and he shies away from nothing.
Caufield has made a believer out of me. His consistency is the main thing. He is not up and down like some scorers. Speaks to a dedication to the game, both mentally and physically. I know he isn't much of a defensive player, but if you have a consistent scorer that's very valuable. You probably don't want a team full of them, or you'd have a lot of 10-9 games, but it's nice for a coach to look down the bench and have a 1st option for the PP and goal scoring situations. I take Boldy over him, but it's close. Boldy is able to play a semi-physical game, and PK, and also has a vg offensive game.
His coach gives him no defensive responsibilities but he should honestly start thinking about doing it. He’s so good at stealing pucks away. He’s also surprisingly hard nosed for such a short player.
 

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