Proposal: I Came to Trade Gardiner Not to Bury Him

[hector morrison]

I think that moving Gardiner to directly or indirectly get a similar level of player on the right side is probably the smart play. But we need to remember what it is that we give up here. As I pointed out in another thread, Gardiner played the fifth most even strength minutes in the league, and when he was on the ice we had the best goal differential in the league. That's some huge results for someone else to replicate. Dermott is great, but asking him to go in and do that right away is quite the tall order.

I am quick to point out Gards deficiencies, but it will be difficult to find someone can replace his strengths! It will be a trade-off of ability with whomever replaces him. Hardly anyone skates like that guy!

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

I don’t see this happening as much as I would love to trade Gardiner.

1) Nobody trades LHD for RHD of similar talent level.

2) We signed Tavares so we are pretty stacked at offense. Basically we don’t need to trade for a forward for foreseeable future.

3) The only trade that comes in my mind at the moment is Panarin for Gardiner+ at TDL. Gives us a chance to see how Dermott develops, and some of the other depth players are good enough to take on full time role. Also gives the CBJ a chance to get an asset of similar level to Panarin and they might have a good chance to re-sign him without being overkilled.

I don’t know what other teams would trade for a 1 year rental and give up a quality asset.

 

[ACC1224]

If he walks at the end of this season, it would test my faith for sure (unless we win the cup this year).

I believe they will sign him and all will be well.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I believe they will sign him and all will be well.

Same here.

 

[Duke Silver]

I am quick to point out Gards deficiencies, but it will be difficult to find someone can replace his strengths! It will be a trade-off of ability with whomever replaces him. Hardly anyone skates like that guy!

I think you take a guy who can replace roughly 75% of his offense (~35 points) but who is more reliable defensively.

I'd personally love to see what Dermott could do with PP2 minutes.

 

[Hunter74]

I believe they will sign him and all will be well.

Sign him to a reasonable extension and if it doesn't work money wise going into next year trade him at the draft before it kicks in.

Get to keep him this year for playoff run and to ensure Dermott is ready while still keeping value on player.

 

[ACC1224]

Sign him to a reasonable extension and if it doesn't work money wise going into next year trade him at the draft before it kicks in.

Get to keep him this year for playoff run and to ensure Dermott is ready while still keeping value on player.

Maybe I'm missing the point but if the extension is "reasonable" why wouldn't it "work money wise"?

 

[Bluelines]

Garbage, Andersen was bad for months/weeks on end. He's out most inconsistent player.

LOL there you go being the class clown again, thanks for that laugh ya big jokester... without Andersen we would have been a lottery team.

 

[hector morrison]

I think you take a guy who can replace roughly 75% of his offense (~35 points) but who is more reliable defensively.

I'd personally love to see what Dermott could do with PP2 minutes.

I would expect there would be several teams who aren't stacked on D to pursue Gards if he walks. Not sure if you get that desirable all-rounder from a trade though. Yet ,anything is better than him walking for nada,like JVR !
There seems to be a lot of hope for Dermott's growth! I really hope it happens,but he has barely been around the league once,so my expectations are moderate.

 

[Hunter74]

Maybe I'm missing the point but if the extension is "reasonable" why wouldn't it "work money wise"?

Reasonable in the sense that it doesn't turn into an overpayment like the Phaneuf situation which hurts trade value. Other GM's around the NHL would see it as fair value but still may be to high to fit into the Leafs salary structure.

We simply may not be able to fit a fair value contract for Gardiner in. Is this an area that could be better used to maximize dollar value on the player.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I don't know why so called knowledgable fans are worried about players leaving as UFAs "for nothing".
There are about 90 UFA every year, they all don't get traded. Contending teams, even playoff teams aren't sellers at TDL they are buyers.
In absurd that the Leafs would trade Gardiner for futures just because he is leaving as UFA. If Gardiner makes the Leafs better in 2018/19, he is certainly staying a Leaf.
Looking the Leafs cap for 2019/20, I doubt if there is cap room for Gardiner anyway. If the Leafs have six expensive forwards....Marleau, Kadri, Tavares Matthews, Nylander and Marner, they will will be depending on some cheaper, ELC Dmen.

 

[Joey Hoser]

LOL there you go being the class clown again, thanks for that laugh ya big jokester... without Andersen we would have been a lottery team.

The Leafs could have got .918 from plenty of goalies.

Andersen is a decent starter, but he didn't carry the team by any stretch of the imagination, and he's as much to blame for game 7 as Gardiner is. Leafs fans just haven't seen decent goaltending since Belfour and forgot what it looked like, and it's blowing their minds.

 

[Bluelines]

The Leafs could have got .918 from plenty of goalies.

Andersen is a decent starter, but he didn't carry the team by any stretch of the imagination, and he's as much to blame for game 7 as Gardiner is. Leafs fans just haven't seen decent goaltending since Belfour and forgot what it looked like, and it's blowing their minds.

.918 from plenty of goalies? With as many quality chances and shots against? Not likely.

 

[Joey Hoser]

.918 from plenty of goalies? With as many quality chances and shots against? Not likely.

Mcelhenney did fine. Or great, actually.

 

[Bluelines]

Mcelhenney did fine. Or great, actually.

Indeed the 3 or 4 games a month must have been really challenging.

 

[ottomaddox]

In this blog: 4 teams to call to trade for a defenseman blogger David Morassutti uses Jake Gardiner's name 3 times in a trade from Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Anaheim. The only team he doesn't use Gardiner as a trade piece is with the Hurricanes.

Toronto Maple Leafs: 4 teams to call to trade for a defenceman

Is it that well known that Dubas is going to move Jake in order to strengthen our RHD?

I am not a big fan of Gardiner but it seems to me that TOR's depth mostly comes from the forward ranks?

If we move Gardiner in a trade for a RHD then I assume Dermott moves up to the top 4, but that seems hasty to me. I like Dermott, but I don't think he's good enough for TOR to move on from Jake Gardiner. If they do move Gardiner then who plays the bottom LHD?

What gives? Is this wild speculation or are we only going to try to make this work with Gardiner going the other way?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Is this anything more than some random blogger spewing some random thoughts? That's what it seems like to me anyway.

 

[-DeMo-]

Players entering there final year in the contract before becoming a UFA don’t have much value when trying to return other roster players, there value is most found in picks/prospects so it’s doubtful Jake would be moved to improve the right defence unless it’s in prospect form that’s expected to play this year.

 

[PromisedLand]

why does this need a thread on its own? Isnt there gardiner thread going on anyway?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Players entering there final year in the contract before becoming a UFA don’t have much value when trying to return other roster players, there value is most found in picks/prospects so it’s doubtful Jake would be moved to improve the right defence unless it’s in prospect form that’s expected to play this year.

You could try swapping him for another pending UFA like Myers or Ellis or something. I guess that would make sense.

 

[crump]

You run the risk of repeating the Randy Carlyle boondoggle. Trade from a position of strength to shore up a need in another area. What! You say, that's how it's supposed to be done? Well way back when the Leafs had Salming and Turnbull patrolling the blue line, there was a young buck named Randy Carlyle pushing for more ice time. Instead of just getting rid of redundant Jim Mckenny (who wouldn't play 2 more years as a pro) they wanted to swap the promising Carlyle for Defensive Pens D man (-30 plus minus) Dave Burrows.

Carlyle went on to win a Norris trophy, Leafs never had anyone to replace Turnbull or McKenny when they left. Burrows never topped 19 points but improved his plus minus to -10, never lived up to expectations and to add insult to injury he was traded back to the Pens 2 years later.

Point of the story, don't trade him just because you have extra offensive D men. Make sure you get equal value back. Or Dermott has become as good or better. We know his contract is coming up, but I think you have to play out the year until the trade deadline with him. He is still a big part of the team. However, I would like to see some picks recouped for him at the trade deadline. He should be pushing 60 points next season I think maybe a first and a couple of seconds or an excellent young prospect.

 

[Zybalto]

Still don't understand the logic of trading Gards for a top 4 RHD.

It just leaves a hole at the 3C position that Dermott is not yet ready to fill.

Gardiner knows the cap pressure we are under and, from all accounts, really wants to stay with this group so the best course is to keep the pressure on him to sign a team friendly deal.

He will probably want a NMC to go with it but if we can lock him up at around 5.5x5, it's an absolute steal for his production and then focus on getting a solid RHD through other means. Its gonna cost us but we have 17 picks the next two years and solid prospect depth.

Gards was played a little too much in the playoffs and it would be nice to see Rielly given those minutes with a solid partner who isn't burned out/ancient.

Rielly/trade
Gards/Zaitsev
Dermott/Hainsey

We have decent depth in case of injury but I would feel pretty confident if we could score a Tanev or similar player for this year.

 

[ottomaddox]

You run the risk of repeating the Randy Carlyle boondoggle. Trade from a position of strength to shore up a need in another area. What! You say, that's how it's supposed to be done? Well way back when the Leafs had Salming and Turnbull patrolling the blue line, there was a young buck named Randy Carlyle pushing for more ice time. Instead of just getting rid of redundant Jim Mckenny (who wouldn't play 2 more years as a pro) they wanted to swap the promising Carlyle for Defensive Pens D man (-30 plus minus) Dave Burrows.

Carlyle went on to win a Norris trophy, Leafs never had anyone to replace Turnbull or McKenny when they left. Burrows never topped 19 points but improved his plus minus to -10, never lived up to expectations and to add insult to injury he was traded back to the Pens 2 years later.

Point of the story, don't trade him just because you have extra offensive D men. Make sure you get equal value back. Or Dermott has become as good or better. We know his contract is coming up, but I think you have to play out the year until the trade deadline with him. He is still a big part of the team. However, I would like to see some picks recouped for him at the trade deadline. He should be pushing 60 points next season I think maybe a first and a couple of seconds or an excellent young prospect.

I would think that TOR would keep Gardiner if he is a 60 point D.

 

[BM14]

DM @ ToT has sources but this is just him speculating and giving some scenarios - as a blogger will do.

 

[stymie]

Somebody call an interpreter.