Proposal: I Came to Trade Gardiner Not to Bury Him

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Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
27,381
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The fact is Gardiner isn't the type of defenseman we need. Trouba is. I don't agree with Dubas that he is a part of the future. Gardiner, Brown + (?) for Trouba.

Problem with that trade is Jets have zero need for wingers......so Brown adds zero value to that offer. Jets needs are 2C or top 4 if Trouba was traded and/or prospects to who could become one of 2C or top 4 D. Zero need for wingers or winger prospects.....they have too many now.
 

mulefarm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2011
1,385
365
The fact is Gardiner isn't the type of defenseman we need. Trouba is. I don't agree with Dubas that he is a part of the future. Gardiner, Brown + (?) for Trouba.

Totally disagree, Jake is the exact type of D we need with our forwards. We need to be able to get them the puck and create offense. Jake is by far our best D at this.
 

GoldenGOOSE

Registered User
Jan 14, 2018
828
400
Big Jake Gardiner fan. Remember how he single handedly got us back into the first seven game series with Boston? Guy is a brilliant player imo. Strong as an ox too... Plus he is a clone of Tim Horton facially. The Best Dman in Leaf history by far.

Tell me that isn't a clone of Jake Gardiner. tim horton - Google Search:
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
24,658
12,824
The fact is Gardiner isn't the type of defenseman we need. Trouba is. I don't agree with Dubas that he is a part of the future. Gardiner, Brown + (?) for Trouba.
You have to be careful with Trouba. He is playing 1/2 year contract at a time. Which leads me to believe he has a UFA destination in mind. According to Jets fans, that destination is most assuredly USA. Florida pops up quite a bit. No sense pursuing a player who has his sights set on somewhere else. You want players that are part of the long term plan. I don’t see that he is.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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If he doesn't want to resign then I offer much less. I don't know he wouldn't sign with us to win a cup. A rumour or fact? One thing I know, playoffs are a different animal to regular season. I'm not in love Gardiner and if he wants $6M plus /yr. I would trade him for an upgrade. Andersen needs help and gets hung out to dry on too many nights. Did anyone see more rubber last year? Or attempted head executions? I just want to win a round before we declare Gardiner a long term solution.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Skövde, Sweden
You have to be careful with Trouba. He is playing 1/2 year contract at a time. Which leads me to believe he has a UFA destination in mind. According to Jets fans, that destination is most assuredly USA. Florida pops up quite a bit. No sense pursuing a player who has his sights set on somewhere else. You want players that are part of the long term plan. I don’t see that he is.
Trouba will also need a contract at the same time as Marner and Matthews, which means we'll be hard pressed to afford him. I've talked a bit about him myself, but I've realized that it doesn't really work.
 

mulefarm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2011
1,385
365
If he doesn't want to resign then I offer much less. I don't know he wouldn't sign with us to win a cup. A rumour or fact? One thing I know, playoffs are a different animal to regular season. I'm not in love Gardiner and if he wants $6M plus /yr. I would trade him for an upgrade. Andersen needs help and gets hung out to dry on too many nights. Did anyone see more rubber last year? Or attempted head executions? I just want to win a round before we declare Gardiner a long term solution.

Are saying the reason Andersen is seeing lots of rubber is because of Gardiner?
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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No, I'm saying we need to help Andersen more which means we need one more very good top 4 Dman. If Gardiner is the cost, so be it.
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,669
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Dermott isn't ready to fill it? He was really good last year, the 3rd pairing is ideal for him to start out unlike last year where it was more trial by fire, and he largely succeeded. And we've got Borgman and Rosen back there who may be ready to take the next step.

I'm totally confident with trading Gardiner. Dermotts got a higher hockey IQ and plays with more jam, Borgman the same (He's the dark horse ).

I'd be far more confident in Dermott if he were able to show he can play against a higher QoC. He was pretty sheltered last year and put up really good numbers but he was pretty disappointing in the playoffs while Gardiner was head and shoulders better than Dermott, leading the team in Icetime against a solid QoC and was one of the main reasons the series even went 7 games. Dermotts 9 giveaways in 95 min vs Gards 6 in 159 also stands out to me. Dermott has a great future but he definitely needs at least another season of ramping up his competition level before we can call him a legitimate top 4.

I'm not totally against trading Gards but it's going to have to be a helluva return. This team is in serious win now mode and we cant afford to be making downgrades at any position. Signing him to a team friendly contract seems the best option for us.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
7,372
1,559
So trading Gadiner for another top 4, still leaves us 1 short.

We aren't short anything as Trouba is a top 2 who can play with Reilly and Gardiner is a top 3/4. No one will simply just handgift us a top 2 Dman nowadays. We are changing our flavour. We have lots of offense..that we do have.

Reilly Trouba
Zaitsev ( Carrick/Ozhiganov)
Hainsey Dermott
Borgman

Injury callup: Liljegren
 
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81Leafs50

Registered User
May 14, 2010
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Toronto
“It’s a knee jerk reaction,” “let’s not have our judgement clouded by one bad game,” these will be the arguments in defense of Jake Gardiner, I’m not here to bury Jake Gardiner I’m here to try and trade him, and to convince you that it is the rationale sober minded option. Even if we forgive that in the biggest game of his life he folded like a cheap-nay a turn of the century train hopping hobo’s-suit (a pretty damn big concession that some of the sunshine, lollipop and rainbow members of the fan base will make) he still needs to go.

The biggest problem with Gardiner is his contract status and his position on the LHS depth chart. I want you to go along with me and entertain a couple of thoughts here:

(1) Travis Dermott will be a top 4 d man, I don’t think it’s unreasonable this happens next year(hear me out before panicking about that last point.)

(2) Jake will seek a contract worth an excess of 4 million and not stay on as a third pairing powerplay specialist and if he did…

(3) By the time the Leafs are contending a top 4 RHD will have been added or developed and he will likely be capable on the powerplay (ie/ Carlson or Liljiegren) and between this mystery d man, and Rielly, Jake’s hypothetical roll would be superfluous.

(4) Burning more assets in the fashion likely done with JVR isn’t ideal unless they make noise in the playoffs next year and frankly the team won’t look hugely different and will still be in the division from Hell. The Leafs will have many cracks at this if they play their cards right, I think they must look at the long game this offseason and build towards a permanent fix on D. So even if Dermott isn’t ready to be thrown to the wolves in the top 4(although his underlying numbers against low end competition suggest he is ready for a bigger role) this is a bullet the Leafs should bite next year if the Gardiner move is for futures.

The biggest issue with trading Gardiner is that ideally he would be swapped for a RHD, so who is available? Pretty much no one, there are pipe dreams about including Gardiner in a Doughty proposal but if the Kings trade their Norris winning defenseman it will hurt a lot more to acquire him then Jake and a couple lottery tickets. Speaking of lottery tickets however:

Scenario 1: They can try and trade Gardiner for a top 10 pick (think the Stepan deal last season), now a Stepan(or before that Schneider) type trade requires a perfect storm and the two biggest possibilities here involve the Oilers(pick #9) and the Islanders(pick #10). However, even these are imperfect; the Oilers would be overstocked at LHD with Nurse, Klefbom and Sekera, the latter two they could look at flipping afterwards, as Gardiner fills a dire need for them as an offensive option on the back end. And the Islanders could be looking at a full scale youth movement if Tavares walks, wherein parting with a top 10 pick looks unwise, but they badly need any help they can get on defense as well.

If the Leafs make this deal they hope one of the highly touted right RHD prospects Noah Dobson or Evan Bouchard are still on the board. Alternatively Brady Tkachuk (although his ranking fluctuates all over the top 10) would be a wonderful addition he can play left wing, if there was ever going to be a player who could knock Hyman off the top line he is the man, or center where he would solve the Leafs center issue once and for all not to mention he’d bring some much needed grit to this roster. This is definitely a move for the long game but if you pull it off you simply try to sign either a stop gap RHD or a player like Carlson, if you get Carlson you may argue the Leafs become too deep on RHD between players (include immovable object Nikita Zaistev) and prospects, to which I would ask: is there such a thing?

Scenario 2: Trade him for an LHD who plays a different roll. Nicklas Hjalmarsson has a lot of mileage on him but he’s still only 30 and he would be a massive improvement to the roster of serviceable DFD’s. He’d help out on the penalty kill and if Hainsey finds himself on the third pairing next year these two could be relied on in key situations *cough*holding a third period game seven lead*cough* and he would be a good fall back if Dermott struggles in the top 4 since he can play up and down the lineup. Arizona GM John Chayka does this because his calculator tells him to. Hjalmarsson has a year left as well but would likely be more affordable to extend and as a shutdown defenseman would fill a roll long-term.

Alternatively, and bear with me a second, you try to get Klefbom out of Edmonton. I know, I know, LHD depth chart, Dermott, everything else I said, etc. etc. But this is a guy who played like a number one defenseman during the 2016-2017 season and is signed long-term to just over 4 million (there is a risk here since he played very poorly this year and the Leafs would have 8 million tied up in two defensemen who fit that bill) if he regained his form the Leafs could pull off the next great fleecing of Peter Chiarelli and he does play a different style from Jake Gardiner. This is just another situation where the team ends up with a surplus of defensive talent, and maybe moves past someone at some point, but the Leafs aren’t on the clock to lose a player for nothing by this time next year so it’s certainly an improvement.

The Oilers either make this move for the reasons listed in the first trade proposal involving them or they don’t do it because they don’t want to sell low on Klefbom...I’m kidding obviously, selling low is Chiarelli’s favorite pastime. Oilers also might be concerned about locking Gardiner up, especially at potentially a higher cap hit then Klefbom but I think between their desperation for a powerplay quarterback and Gardiner’s opportunity to light it up with McDavid the stars could align here.

Scenario 3: Flip him for similarly aged oft-injured RHD Chris Tanev. Tanev, apparent inability to stay healthy notwithstanding, would be the perfect fit for the Leafs but I’m not sure this deal makes much sense for the Canucks who, without Tanev, would lack a high end defensive defenseman themselves and are still in their pseudo rebuild wherein it makes the most sense to part with Tanev for picks…I think…I can’t really get into the mind of Jim Benning…he is a rare breed and outside of my psychoanalytic capabilities.

There it is my long winded, clear headed assessment of Gardiner’s future or lack thereof with the Maple Leafs. Gardiner had one of the worst big game performances ever in game 7 and it wasn’t just the one game, that was a culmination of a career of making the occasional bad play that was often overlooked in favor of the good he brings, but in the biggest pressure situation he simply could not be trusted and the Bruins had the book on him and applied the right amount of pressure to turn that “occasional bad play” into a series losing debacle. I looked at this from as objective a view point I could and I think this is the right decision, let me know if you agree.

1) NO
2) NO
3) NO

Leafs best option with Gardiner is to trade him to a team that NEEDS offense to stay a float.... St Louis. Reilly and Gardiner both scored more points than any dman in St Louis. They have an abundance of what we need. Parayko for example is signed at a nice number for a while. Trade Gardiner to St Louis add a 1st (which will be a late 1st), add a Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo. Thats a deal.

to Leafs:
Colton Parayko

to St Louis:
Jake Gardiner
Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo (all money retained, both are on the last years of their deals for cheap)
1st 2019

No way St Louis can turn it down. :thumbu:
 

Ryan Michaels

Registered User
Mar 21, 2017
4,275
5,640
1) NO
2) NO
3) NO

Leafs best option with Gardiner is to trade him to a team that NEEDS offense to stay a float.... St Louis. Reilly and Gardiner both scored more points than any dman in St Louis. They have an abundance of what we need. Parayko for example is signed at a nice number for a while. Trade Gardiner to St Louis add a 1st (which will be a late 1st), add a Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo. Thats a deal.

to Leafs:
Colton Parayko

to St Louis:
Jake Gardiner
Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo (all money retained, both are on the last years of their deals for cheap)
1st 2019

No way St Louis can turn it down. :thumbu:

Does Doug Armstrong have a pee tape that Russian spies have helped Dubas get his hands on?
 

EastonBlues22

Registered User
Nov 25, 2003
14,807
10,496
RIP Fugu ϶(°o°)ϵ
1) NO
2) NO
3) NO

Leafs best option with Gardiner is to trade him to a team that NEEDS offense to stay a float.... St Louis. Reilly and Gardiner both scored more points than any dman in St Louis. They have an abundance of what we need. Parayko for example is signed at a nice number for a while. Trade Gardiner to St Louis add a 1st (which will be a late 1st), add a Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo. Thats a deal.

to Leafs:
Colton Parayko

to St Louis:
Jake Gardiner
Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo (all money retained, both are on the last years of their deals for cheap)
1st 2019

No way St Louis can turn it down. :thumbu:
Do you not consider Pietrangelo to be a defenseman?
 

BlueOil

"well-informed"
Apr 28, 2010
7,237
4,241
1) NO
2) NO
3) NO

Leafs best option with Gardiner is to trade him to a team that NEEDS offense to stay a float.... St Louis. Reilly and Gardiner both scored more points than any dman in St Louis. They have an abundance of what we need. Parayko for example is signed at a nice number for a while. Trade Gardiner to St Louis add a 1st (which will be a late 1st), add a Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo. Thats a deal.

to Leafs:
Colton Parayko

to St Louis:
Jake Gardiner
Kasperi Kapanen/Josh Leivo (all money retained, both are on the last years of their deals for cheap)
1st 2019

No way St Louis can turn it down. :thumbu:

the blues will simply keep the better defenseman: parayko

since your entire argument is simply based on points and money, i'll point out:

1) gardiner is a 0.44 ppg player after 7 seasons, parakyo is a 0.43 ppg after 3
2) parakyo is 4-5 inches taller and significantly faster on the ice than gardiner
3) parayko is 3 years younger
4) parakyo isn't a ufa until 22-23 season, where as gardiner is a ufa next year and quickly will be making more than parakyo

aside from saving a slight cap hit this year (and then gardiner being a ufa), offense is really the only bright spot you can reference to promote this trade. the blues would certainly be interested in gardiner on their left side, but giving up a better defenseman from the right doesn't make enough sense (even with the dump ins). sure it'd be great to get a 1st back after the orielly trade, but keeping parayko will be better than a first.

if gardiner is still on the block, armstrong can surely find a way to get him without giving up parayko.
 

BlueOil

"well-informed"
Apr 28, 2010
7,237
4,241
Do you not consider Pietrangelo to be a defenseman?

he's lumping rielly and gardiner together to support his point, as pietrangelo outscored both of them individually like he does year in and year out. if you move the goal posts, the argument sounds more coherent.
 

81Leafs50

Registered User
May 14, 2010
3,179
1,296
Toronto
the blues will simply keep the better defenseman: parayko

since your entire argument is simply based on points and money, i'll point out:

1) gardiner is a 0.44 ppg player after 7 seasons, parakyo is a 0.43 ppg after 3
2) parakyo is 4-5 inches taller and significantly faster on the ice than gardiner
3) parayko is 3 years younger
4) parakyo isn't a ufa until 22-23 season, where as gardiner is a ufa next year and quickly will be making more than parakyo

aside from saving a slight cap hit this year (and then gardiner being a ufa), offense is really the only bright spot you can reference to promote this trade. the blues would certainly be interested in gardiner on their left side, but giving up a better defenseman from the right doesn't make enough sense (even with the dump ins). sure it'd be great to get a 1st back after the orielly trade, but keeping parayko will be better than a first.

if gardiner is still on the block, armstrong can surely find a way to get him without giving up parayko.

go to 3:40 into this video. Gardiner's pass to Nylander. This is elite level play-making and vision.



Gardiner scored 52 pts last season. Parayko had 35. Its silly to think Prayako can put up these point totals ever!

I don't want Gardiner traded because he is no good. i just think its a trade where both teams can benefit.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
16,443
27,002
Problem with that trade is Jets have zero need for wingers......so Brown adds zero value to that offer. Jets needs are 2C or top 4 if Trouba was traded and/or prospects to who could become one of 2C or top 4 D. Zero need for wingers or winger prospects.....they have too many now.
You guys already have Myers and Byfuglien as top-4 RHD.
 

81Leafs50

Registered User
May 14, 2010
3,179
1,296
Toronto
he's lumping rielly and gardiner together to support his point, as pietrangelo outscored both of them individually like he does year in and year out. if you move the goal posts, the argument sounds more coherent.

Do you think I care if the Blues miss the playoffs again because of a lack of offense? nope.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,098
24,492
the blues will simply keep the better defenseman: parayko

since your entire argument is simply based on points and money, i'll point out:

1) gardiner is a 0.44 ppg player after 7 seasons, parakyo is a 0.43 ppg after 3
2) parakyo is 4-5 inches taller and significantly faster on the ice than gardiner
3) parayko is 3 years younger
4) parakyo isn't a ufa until 22-23 season, where as gardiner is a ufa next year and quickly will be making more than parakyo

aside from saving a slight cap hit this year (and then gardiner being a ufa), offense is really the only bright spot you can reference to promote this trade. the blues would certainly be interested in gardiner on their left side, but giving up a better defenseman from the right doesn't make enough sense (even with the dump ins). sure it'd be great to get a 1st back after the orielly trade, but keeping parayko will be better than a first.

if gardiner is still on the block, armstrong can surely find a way to get him without giving up parayko.

I find this hard to believe.
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
27,381
24,470
You guys already have Myers and Byfuglien as top-4 RHD.

Buff is great.....right now.....he has about 2-3 years left at a high level only.....not to mention Buff is very good PP & good ES....not so great P.K.

Myers is not what we would want as a long term full time top 4 guy. He’s good on the PP.....every where else not so good. Not to mention his contract is up this year and will want a raise.....no interest in resigning him.

If Trouba was traded it would be a significant blow to our rhd core. Our strength would become a weakness literally overnight.

Any trade involving Trouba needs to include a top 4 D (ideally RHD) or a top 4 D prospect.....wingers zero need borderline worthless to us, 2C secondary need at best.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,201
27,296
We aren't short anything as Trouba is a top 2 who can play with Reilly and Gardiner is a top 3/4. No one will simply just handgift us a top 2 Dman nowadays. We are changing our flavour. We have lots of offense..that we do have.

Reilly Trouba
Zaitsev ( Carrick/Ozhiganov)
Hainsey Dermott
Borgman

Injury callup: Liljegren

Trouba leaves when he is an UFA pass.
 

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