Proposal: I Came to Trade Gardiner Not to Bury Him

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's a problem.

maybe it is, but that would make moving him pretty detrimental to the team

to me, the real problem is when he's our worst defenseman (which is rare, but it's bad)

 

[Morgs]

All i can do is attempt to detail a well thought out rational argument, i guess i dont have a reply to "lol" tho.

No, you don't.

A rational response to the most points the Leafs have ever gotten in a season is not trading our 2nd best defenseman though.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No, you don't.

A rational response to the most points the Leafs have ever gotten in a season is not trading our 2nd best defenseman though.

I wouldn't mind making a trade to make Gardiner our 3rd best defenseman, as long as it's a smart one that doesn't involve Nylander. I'm not sure what that would look like though

 

[Morgs]

I wouldn't mind making a trade to make Gardiner our 3rd best defenseman, as long as it's a smart one that doesn't involve Nylander. I'm not sure what that would look like though

Agreed. I'm not sure keeping Gardiner long-term is best for us as I believe Dermott can take on his role in October, but I'm not against keeping and signing him long-term.

As long as one of the big-3 and Kadri aren't traded for a defenseman that'd competent beside Rielly, im happy.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Agreed. I'm not sure keeping Gardiner long-term is best for us as I believe Dermott can take on his role in October, but I'm not against keeping and signing him long-term.

As long as one of the big-3 and Kadri aren't traded for a defenseman that'd competent beside Rielly, im happy.

yeah I honestly don't know how I want our defense to look next year. To me, our primary area of concerns should be getting the puck out effectively, and protecting the net. So getting a RHD who can do those things would be nice.

Maybe we can sign Carlson and then trade Gardiner for a RHD like Tanev or Larsson.

Rielly - Tanev
Dermott - Carlson
Hainsey/Rosen - Zaitsev

 

[Advanced stats]

Imo, Gardiner is absolutely devastated now and will use that over the summer to return next year with his best season yet.
He'll come back with an edge and be motivated to prove everyone wrong.

I just hope it's with the leafs.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

No, you don't.

A rational response to the most points the Leafs have ever gotten in a season is not trading our 2nd best defenseman though.

2 posts down you seem fine with trading Gardiner for Tanev...which is in the OP. Look you dont need to read it I know its unnecessary long but if you want to reply to what im saying then you have to listen, thems the breaks. I want to trade him because of his contract status, every proposal I made involves valuable assets, im not running him out of town...this is all in the OP.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

teams aren't going to give up a better defenseman for him. If you want to improve our defense, you move a forward or some futures or a combination. Gardiner would be badly missed if he goes

This is a fair point but the problem is we need to **** or get off the pot with Jake this summer or lose him for nothing next year. If Dermott is top 4 longterm we are trying to get Jake, a top 4 dman, to sign a contract as a bottom pairing powerplay specialist which he probably wouldnt take. Theres no reson to assume Gardiner wont go to the highest bidder and based on the Leafs situation on LHD vs RHD i dont think that will be us. And bleeding more assets next summer doesnt bode well.

 

[Notsince67]

Unless you are getting a top 10 pick or OEL, we need to keep Gardiner.

You don't trade a 50 point dman who can move the puck and make stretch passes when no other defenseman on our team can. Sure Gardiner makes bad plays but he also makes a bunch of good ones.

Rielly makes a lot of the same mistakes and no one wants to trade him.

Trading Gardiner will be a huge mistake. We already have trouble making breakouts and you want to trade the one guy who is probably the best at it?

Also eveeeyome knows dman struggle in year 2. Which means dermott is going to go through some obvious growing pains next year. He is now the ready for gardiners minutes and I'm not even sure he can match the offense production. We are already going to be losing JVR's production and now you want to trade Gardiner? That is 100 points of production gone and no real replacements.

I think Gardiner is a decent defenseman. The problem is that he will be a more expensive one after next year.
Room needs to be made on the roster for the AHLers eventually. Dermott and Rielly won't be moved . Pollack is good value and frees little in salary. Zaitsev is signed for the long term and little can be gained from trading him right now. Hainsey is of limited trade value and is only around for another year.
I don't see how the stays

 

[Macallan18]

We should be careful with Dermott. He looks good, but we have been very careful with how we use him so far. And he just came off a bad series.

As for Gardiner's Game 7, he wasn't worse than Rielly was in the two first games. Andersen had a few games were he arguably sunk us more than Gardiner did. The same rationale should apply to them all.


I'm sorry, but my answer to your concluding statement can't be anything else than what you mentioned to start. You are letting one game cloud your judgement. Gardiner has been a playoff performer every other game, but all of that is now turned on its head because of one game? The Bruins didn't have the book on him. They struggled against him the whole series. We had something like 60-65% of the scoring chances on our side with him on the ice, and he was on the ice a ton. Then he had a really bad game. Those happen, and saying it is because he couldn't handle the situation is trying to force a connection. It might be that, or it might be for any number of reasons. And it doesn't make sense to me. He is good normally, great in high pressure situations, but abysmal in the highest of pressure situations?

I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him. I'm not saying we should not really question to what degree his tendency to have abysmal games can be excused. But in any scenario we get rid of him, we lose a guy who plays among the most even strength minutes in the league, while giving us good to great results while doing it. Those are some huge shoes to fill, even if the guy stepping into them don't have the same kind of lowest of lows.

All very true.

A much simpler solution is to play Rielly and Gardiner as a pairing, Dermott perhaps as no. 2 on the LH side, and someone new as a RHD.
Maybe Lily? or someone acquired?

 

[Morgs]

2 posts down you seem fine with trading Gardiner for Tanev...which is in the OP. Look you dont need to read it I know its unnecessary long but if you want to reply to what im saying then you have to listen, thems the breaks. I want to trade him because of his contract status, every proposal I made involves valuable assets, im not running him out of town...this is all in the OP.

I'm ok with trading him for Tanev if we aren't planning on re-signing him. In a vacuum though, Gardiner is a much better player.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

Biggest issue here on this thread is the 900 pound gorilla Jake IS NOT a defenceman. He is a converted centre who which switched in college to learn defence as a 20 year old. Very very very difficult. When the pressure comes he does not have the foundation of a 1,000 games played in AAA hockey with coaches ingraining the basics in him on the bench and in practice consistently. He still is learning. I would be cautious about trading him as he could be one of those guys who started late in life and maybe gets it late. The intricacies of defence take years to learn. The one skill that does worry me that he probably wont get is his backward skating pivot to his left. He cant do it fast and when he tries he falls over so is always goes to his right which he did on the DeBrusk goal. The media and him will tell you it was a brain fart but that is not the truth. Again just one of those skills you learn when you start defence early in life and practice practice practice.

 

[bodechek]

Gardiner was on the roster the last time they had a meltdown in game 7 against the Bruins. You think it would of sinked in by now that he has to be better on defense. The damn thing is in his job title! DEFENSEMAN! Do you move on with or without him is a tough call. One I'm glad I don't have to make, but if I see the pairing of Zaitzev and Gardiner on the ice next season, I'm going to be sick.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Rielly
Dermott
Carrick?

Is that what we think “improvement” is now?

 

[cipher]

Gardiner will turn 28 soon and is coming off his best offensive season. Now is the time to move him on for assets. I felt this way LAST YEAR and nothing has changed my mind since then. Chicago have set the blueprint for how to manage assets when you have stars on your team that are eating up large portions of the cap and you need to keep turning over your players.

Holding onto Jvr/Bozak and trading a 2nd for Plekanac was a mistake in my opinion and doing the same with Gardiner or signing him to a new contract would be an additional mistake by this organization. I understand that defensemen generally mature later than other payers, but expecting Gardiner to change his "I've smoked 5 joints and am loving life out here on the ice" approach are dreaming. His lack of urgency and carefree attitude in game 7 was not an aberration as it happens many times during the year. Unfortunately, in playoff hockey with a focused opponent, that approach will bite you in the ass many times as we saw that game and others.

We need warriors at the back and Jake isn't one of them, and never will be. Time to get something for him before it's too late.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Optimally, he's moved for an equivalent RHS defenseman, like Petry. Then we acquire a RHD (NOT NAMED POLAK!) that can slot in on the bottom pairing. Then everyone can be on their proper side, which will improve our atrocious zone exits.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

By the time the Leafs are contending a top 4 RHD will have been added or developed

Leafs are in Win Now mode, with acquiring Tavares, do they still move on from Gardiner ?

 

[A1LeafNation]

I’m okay losing Gardiner for nothing if it means we insulate Dermott for a year.

Dermott’s development > Gardiner’s return

 

[Battle Lin]

we have around 30mill in cap next year as of right now, 35 tops...signing nylander at 6, marner at 7, matthews at 10, and jake at 6, is pretty much 30 mill, and thats with generous numbers, all can get more

then we gotta sign kapanen, johnsson, add a 4c, a 13th forward, a 5D, 6D, and 7D, and a back up goalie next summer too

how we can afford gardiner i have no clue, im pretty sure we cant bring gardiner back...not only that, we right up against cap with our strong forward group, we probably cant even add a dman half as good as gardiner...hopefully the cap goes up a bit next summer

 

[DarkKnight]

Mirtle was talking about trading Gardiner today on 1050.

 

[Prince N]

Extend or trade before season starts. None of this walk for nothing nonsense. 50pt d man decent defensively worth easily a 1rst round...please Leafs don't f this up

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Trade the bum.

 

[Puckstuff]

Extend or trade before season starts. None of this walk for nothing nonsense. 50pt d man decent defensively worth easily a 1rst round...please Leafs don't f this up

I think he can hit 60 points. I thought eventually he would have a real "Bret Burns" type of season. But even San Jose fans say they would rather a two-way type d-man then Burns...

 

[Duke Silver]

Dubas needs to get a good grip on what Jake’s demands are, because if he’s going to price himself off this team next summer, we cannot lose him for nothing.

To Carolina in a package for Faulk would be preferential.

 

[Damisoph]

I'm all for moving Gardiner in a trade for an equivalent (or better) RHD d-man, but you can't move him at the deadline for picks and prospects if the team is in a playoff spot. I understand the theory of losing an asset in the summer, but it sends a terrible message to the rest of your players.