Proposal: I Came to Trade Gardiner Not to Bury Him

[Nithoniniel]

I'm all for moving Gardiner in a trade for an equivalent (or better) RHD d-man, but you can't move him at the deadline for picks and prospects if the team is in a playoff spot. I understand the theory of losing an asset in the summer, but it sends a terrible message to the rest of your players.

Well you can if you immediately turn around and use those assets to bring someone else in.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs need Gardiner this season. If he has a good year, he will will have priced himself out of the Leafs cap ability to resign him. If Gardiner doesn't improve (at least defensively) at age 28, he's not getting any better, and it will be time to move on from Gardiner in 2019/20.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm all for moving Gardiner in a trade for an equivalent (or better) RHD d-man, but you can't move him at the deadline for picks and prospects if the team is in a playoff spot. I understand the theory of losing an asset in the summer, but it sends a terrible message to the rest of your players.

That's why if he's to be moved it should be done in the summer, that way you have a long time to trade for another Dman. Ideally we resign him though.

 

[Damisoph]

Well you can if you immediately turn around and use those assets to bring someone else in.

that's true, but then it ceases to be a trade for picks and prospects and becomes a three way deal to bring in a dman.

 

[Hunter74]

If you can't get Gardiner's deal done this summer then you trade him. It is very likely he will have another 50pt season and price himself off the team if you let the season play put.

Not a fan of the keep him as our rental mentality as we are trying to build a perennial cup contender not a one and done Cinderella type team.

 

[thewave]

Free star player this year, looks like a recipe to go for it and if we don't have a better option - own rental is the best bet.

I am not saying I like not getting a return, just saying it may be our best option.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Free star player this year, looks like a recipe to go for it and if we don't have a better option - own rental is the best bet.

I am not saying I like not getting a return, just saying it may be our best option.

I think there are better options:

A - resign him for a fair price, if that's not possible go to plan B
B - trade him ASAP for the best offer, the start working on a trade to bring in a Dman

I much prefer option B to own rental because even if we have to overpay, we still come out ahead asset wise compared to losing him for nothing. I really believe we need to manage our assets wisely - we need to plan for the next 8 years or so and not focus on just the upcoming season.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think there are better options:

A - resign him for a fair price, if that's not possible go to plan B
B - trade him ASAP for the best offer, the start working on a trade to bring in a Dman

I much prefer option B to own rental because even if we have to overpay, we still come out ahead asset wise compared to losing him for nothing. I really believe we need to manage our assets wisely - we need to plan for the next 8 years or so and not focus on just the upcoming season.

Yup everyone keeps talking about patience, but holding onto guys like JVR and Gardiner, only to let them walk for nothing, is just the wrong (impatient) approach in my mind.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yup everyone keeps talking about patience, but holding onto guys like JVR and Gardiner, only to let them walk for nothing, is just the wrong (impatient) approach in my mind.

I'm not seeing much patience any more, people are getting carried away IMO. It's July and there have been some posts talking about how we need to trade for a Dman or we'll be "wasting 2-3-4 years". I think we need to pass our some Prozac or something.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not seeing much patience any more, people are getting carried away IMO. It's July and there have been some posts talking about how we need to trade for a Dman or we'll be "wasting 2-3-4 years". I think we need to pass our some Prozac or something.

At the end of the day it's Dubas that needs to have the patience, not posters here.
No faith in the new management?

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think that moving Gardiner to directly or indirectly get a similar level of player on the right side is probably the smart play. But we need to remember what it is that we give up here. As I pointed out in another thread, Gardiner played the fifth most even strength minutes in the league, and when he was on the ice we had the best goal differential in the league. That's some huge results for someone else to replicate. Dermott is great, but asking him to go in and do that right away is quite the tall order.

 

[mulefarm]

I think that moving Gardiner to directly or indirectly get a similar level of player on the right side is probably the smart play. But we need to remember what it is that we give up here. As I pointed out in another thread, Gardiner played the fifth most even strength minutes in the league, and when he was on the ice we had the best goal differential in the league. That's some huge results for someone else to replicate. Dermott is great, but asking him to go in and do that right away is quite the tall order.

Who are some of the rhd that are similar?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Dermott only spent like half a year in the NHL playing highly sheltered minutes. I wouldn't take the risk of assuming he could seamlessly take over Gardiner's role of playing the most ES ice time on the team while also playing with the Matthews line all the time.

Those aren't easy shoes to fill and I think people are getting a little carried away with Dermott. I'm one of his biggest fans but he did not have a good playoff even though he was sheltered.

My point I guess is im not willing to take the risk that Dermott isn't able to cover Gardiner's role and derail this entire season as a result.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I think that moving Gardiner to directly or indirectly get a similar level of player on the right side is probably the smart play. But we need to remember what it is that we give up here. As I pointed out in another thread, Gardiner played the fifth most even strength minutes in the league, and when he was on the ice we had the best goal differential in the league. That's some huge results for someone else to replicate. Dermott is great, but asking him to go in and do that right away is quite the tall order.

I knew Gardiner was close to the top of the league in ES minutes but didn't know the bolded. Good to know. Could you point me in the direction of your other post if it had some of the raw stats.

 

[Gary Nylund]

At the end of the day it's Dubas that needs to have the patience, not posters here.
No faith in the new management?

I have tons of faith but right now I'm not talking with Dubas, I'm talking with the posters here.

 

[ACC1224]

I have tons of faith but right now I'm not talking with Dubas, I'm talking with the posters here.

Most of the impatient talk seems to be from those who think he needs to be either signed or moved by the start of the season, instead of letting it play out.
Will you still have faith if Gardiner walks?

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Leafs need Gardiner this season. If he has a good year, he will will have priced himself out of the Leafs cap ability to resign him. If Gardiner doesn't improve (at least defensively) at age 28, he's not getting any better, and it will be time to move on from Gardiner in 2019/20.

Don't think he's going to improve defensively. If he hasn't figured it out by now he never will. Leafs made a mistake by holding on to Bozak and JVR. They didn't have the team to win this year therefore should have traded those 2 away and got something for them. Should do the same with Gardiner albeit team with the addition of JT is a favourite for the cup so Leafs probably will ride it out with him for this season. that's fine but I definitely wouldn't resign him. He's going to get at least 6 million per and quite frankly too much of a liability to pay him that much. Kid just does not have the hockey IQ to play defence. Offensively, skating, passing and moving the puck he's great but we've seen how awful he can be and that's not going to change.

 

[Battle Lin]

guys we're a contending team, and teams that want to go deep in playoffs will gladly lose players like gardiner and jvr for nothing...teams in our position will never want a first for guys that can help you win, in fact we are more than happy to give up 1st or 2nd or assets to get even better for a cup run

 

[thewave]

I think there are better options:

A - resign him for a fair price, if that's not possible go to plan B
B - trade him ASAP for the best offer, the start working on a trade to bring in a Dman

I much prefer option B to own rental because even if we have to overpay, we still come out ahead asset wise compared to losing him for nothing. I really believe we need to manage our assets wisely - we need to plan for the next 8 years or so and not focus on just the upcoming season.

Problem... Selling D on final year of contract gets you an ok return, not great. Buying a D when teams know you need one? Gouge city. Buying another D in contract year? No net gain. Best option is to sign him.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I knew Gardiner was close to the top of the league in ES minutes but didn't know the bolded. Good to know. Could you point me in the direction of your other post if it had some of the raw stats.

Good that you asked, because I didn't have the raw stats so went to look them up. I had read them a bit wrong. The top teams had a GF% at 56%, and I had read Gardiner's as 56.5% but it was actually 55.6%. So what I said wasn't quite true.

Edit: It's pretty much the same looking at just 5v5. The top teams end up at 56.4, and Gardiner is at exactly 56% then.

 

[I am Canadian]

I would deal Gardiner 1 for 1 for Tyler Myers.

We desperately need help on the right side and it doesn't make sense to keep Jake with Dermott ready and Sandin, Borgman, Rosen and Marincin in the pipeline.

We could hopefully get Myers for 5.5M for a couple years. He has had injury issues but he played every game last year and if he gets a major injury we can bury him on the LTIR. It's not like we are giving up prominent prospects - just a upcoming ufa that we likely won't sign.

 

[Paladin2799]

Yup everyone keeps talking about patience, but holding onto guys like JVR and Gardiner, only to let them walk for nothing, is just the wrong (impatient) approach in my mind.

Frankly, I think this is why lou left.

Shanny was unhappy we didn't move either.

 

[IPS]

I think that moving Gardiner to directly or indirectly get a similar level of player on the right side is probably the smart play. But we need to remember what it is that we give up here. As I pointed out in another thread, Gardiner played the fifth most even strength minutes in the league, and when he was on the ice we had the best goal differential in the league. That's some huge results for someone else to replicate. Dermott is great, but asking him to go in and do that right away is quite the tall order.

Yeah and that's all with the added bonus of the familiarity he already has with the team. A new D-man is new chemistry that needs to be built. Gardiner already has chemistry with the team as one of the main puck-movers at ES. I mean all in all I'd still much rather have a guy like Ekholm or Hjalmarrson replacing Gardiner for a big shutdown presence on the blueline rather than take the 50+ points that Gardiner will provide. And I really don't like the idea of Dermott attempting to replicate Gardiner's results, that's too much burden to put on a Dman so young.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Most of the impatient talk seems to be from those who think he needs to be either signed or moved by the start of the season, instead of letting it play out.
Will you still have faith if Gardiner walks?

If he walks at the end of this season, it would test my faith for sure (unless we win the cup this year).

 

[IPS]

I would deal Gardiner 1 for 1 for Tyler Myers.

We desperately need help on the right side and it doesn't make sense to keep Jake with Dermott ready and Sandin, Borgman, Rosen and Marincin in the pipeline.

We could hopefully get Myers for 5.5M for a couple years. He has had injury issues but he played every game last year and if he gets a major injury we can bury him on the LTIR. It's not like we are giving up prominent prospects - just a upcoming ufa that we likely won't sign.

What Winnipeg needs is an offensively-minded top-6 center. Can we offer them that?