Hypothetical If Arizona Pick Bedard would a Matthews/Bedard deal be possible?

[Sundinisagod]

Arizona isn't trading a cost controlled superstar for a superstar who will cost around 15m per.

 

[ToneDog]

Arizona isn't trading a cost controlled superstar for a superstar who will cost around 15m per.

Leafs are not trading a guaranteed generational superstar for a potential franchise superstar unless Matty demands to go to Arizona, signs an 8 year extension and Arizona adds. IMO he will come in closer to $13m AAV.

 

[rocketman588]

in your opinion, how much of this is driven by the A) (lack of) interest in hockey within the Arizona market versus B) fielding an absolutely abysmal team with no success or star power for the past decade?

I'm sure it's a mix of both, but if you can buy tickets under face ( go you ticket master and get face value tickets for most games still) and there's open seats during while your arena seats 4600 it's not a great sign.

Worried they're about to waste 5 years of bedard

 

[Sundinisagod]

Leafs are not trading a guaranteed generational superstar for a potential franchise superstar unless Matty demands to go to Arizona, signs an 8 year extension and Arizona adds. IMO he will come in closer to $13m AAV.



Leafs are not trading a guaranteed generational superstar for a potential franchise superstar unless Matty demands to go to Arizona, signs an 8 year extension and Arizona adds. IMO he will come in closer to $13m AAV.









When Matthews was negotiating his current contract, his price on a 8 year deal was rumored to be 13.6 million if I recall correctly. I believe that to be true, because if it was much less, the Leafs would have given him the 8 year deal. After everything he's accomplished since then, you'd have to give him a raise not a pay cut on a 8 year deal.

 

[ToneDog]

You make perfect sense. On one hand I would say, but that was before COVID but on the other, it is Matty so Leafs would most likely be happy to pay him $13.6mx8.

 

[Sundinisagod]

You make perfect sense. On one hand I would say, but that was before COVID but on the other, it is Matty so Leafs would most likely be happy to pay him $13.6mx8.











Don't forget the cap is expected to start rising significantly after year 1 of Matthews new deal. They will need factor that into the contract...or was it at the beginning of his new deal? This makes me worried that the Matthews camp may wish to hold off signing a deal til he reaches Ufa status...unless the Leafs are ready to generously account for that cap increase well before it happens.

 

[Gabriel426]

JT came home bc the Leafs were on the rise with AM, Willie, MM, Hyman, Reilly and Andersen. On paper it looks much better than the Islanders.
Who will AM be playing with in Arizona?
Remember how Stamkos didn't sign with us when he hits UFA? Who was he going to play with in Toronto? Beside Reilly and Willie, none of our current core played a NHL game. I believe Stamkos is a Leafs fan since youth like JT but he also wants to win and choose the team who he believes got the best chance.

I can see AM moving to another team who he believes are closer to winning the Cup than the Leafs but not a bottom team bc it is his home team.

Also an underrated aspect is the environment of the team. Leafs provide byfar the best environment for its players, from practice facilities, staffs, foods, hotels, buses, planes.....something that even with drafting Bedard this summer won't change too much in Arizona.

 

[Notsince67]

It's absolutely far fetched. Why would Matthews go along with this? It can't be money.

Why cant it be about money? If Zona told him that they intend to offer league max on an extension, who wouldn't do that?

 

[ACC1224]

Why cant it be about money? If Zona told him that they intend to offer league max on an extension, who wouldn't do that?

With salary and endorsements it's hard to see him making more money anywhere but here.

 

[hamzarocks]

I'd take the chances that Bedard ends up being better than anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux and would deal Matthews to Arizona/wherever if the leafs get out in the first round again this year.

We'd have only 1 guaranteed playoff run left with AM34 if he doesn't want to sign. If the leafs get bounces in the first this year, then it's a no-brainer to move Matthews and get a generational prospect for three years on an ELC. Use the cap savings to add to wherever the weaknesses are and build around Bedard. He looks every bit as good as Mcdavid did in his draft year and is a likely rocket challenger next year (Like AM34 was in his rookie year)

 

[Notsince67]

With salary and endorsements it's hard to see him making more money anywhere but here.

with the cap up 1MM next year and potentially 3MM next year, maximum salary for a player would be 17.3mm.
He already owns a mansion there so its hard to imagine him netting more in Ontario

 

[hamzarocks]

Leafs are not trading a guaranteed generational superstar for a potential franchise superstar unless Matty demands to go to Arizona, signs an 8 year extension and Arizona adds. IMO he will come in closer to $13m AAV.

well, Matthews isn't generational outside of maybe goal-scoring.

He's had 1 generational-type year (2022), and another where he was a generational goal scorer (2021) and he ended those years as a hart finalist/winner. However, his 2017-2020 and 2023 seasons are not that of a generation player but rather a franchise-level one. He's not a Mcdavid/Crosby/Ovechkin level player, while Bedard is expected to be at that level.

 

[ToneDog]

well, Matthews isn't generational outside of maybe goal-scoring.

He's had 1 generational-type year (2022), and another where he was a generational goal scorer (2021) and he ended those years as a hart finalist/winner. However, his 2017-2020 and 2023 seasons are not that of a generation player but rather a franchise-level one. He's not a Mcdavid/Crosby/Ovechkin level player, while Bedard is expected to be at that level.

We are (over) paying him as generational. When it is all said and done, he will be generational IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

with the cap up 1MM next year and potentially 3MM next year, maximum salary for a player would be 17.3mm.
He already owns a mansion there so its hard to imagine him netting more in Ontario

Endorsements there wouldn't be anywhere close to here plus he can sign 8 years here.

 

[34]

The ultimate Hfboards nonsense. Reigning MVP + Rocket winner for a prospect.

Insane.

What if Matthews absolutely refuses to resign in Toronto and says he is going home back to the US. Kawhi did it to the Raptors after winning the NBA Championship!

Tkachuk and Gaudreau also did it to another Canadian team. Seems to be the trend now. Warm weather and palm trees.

 

[authentic]

well, Matthews isn't generational outside of maybe goal-scoring.

He's had 1 generational-type year (2022), and another where he was a generational goal scorer (2021) and he ended those years as a hart finalist/winner. However, his 2017-2020 and 2023 seasons are not that of a generation player but rather a franchise-level one. He's not a Mcdavid/Crosby/Ovechkin level player, while Bedard is expected to be at that level.

Dude he came 2nd in goals playing 17 minutes a game and 2 minutes on the powerplay as a 19 year old rookie center playing with nothing but rookie wingers all season.

 

[Notsince67]

Endorsements there wouldn't be anywhere close to here plus he can sign 8 years here.

If traded there in the off season, he could sign for 8 years.

 

[ACC1224]

If traded there in the off season, he could sign for 8 years.

True I suppose.

I mean if people want to believe the league will manipulate things and put him in Arizona and he'll be good about it, they are welcome to it.
I think it's a ridiculous notion.

 

[hamzarocks]

Dude he came 2nd in goals playing 17 minutes a game and 2 minutes on the powerplay as a 19 year old rookie center playing with nothing but rookie wingers all season.

that still didn't make him a generational player. Those rookie wingers did include Nylander who was a very highly developed prospect and is around a ppg winger outside of 2019 since his ELC ended

He came 20th in pts and lower in ppg as a rookie. In his next few years, he wasn't a top 5 player either.

A guy like Mcdavid was a top 3-5 player since his rookie season. The same was the case for Crosby, OV, Lemieux, and Gretzky.

Matthews was elite but a level or two below that. He's a Yzerman/Sakic/Malkin (healthy) level player if he keeps this up.

Crosby/OV are both a tier above, and then I have Mcdavid/Lemiuex/Gretzky/Howe in tier 1

I think Bedard is slotting a tier above Matthews as a prospect as well, but we'll see at the NHL level.

 

[authentic]

that still didn't make him a generational player. Those rookie wingers did include Nylander who was a very highly developed prospect and is around a ppg winger outside of 2019 since his ELC ended

He came 20th in pts and lower in ppg as a rookie. In his next few years, he wasn't a top 5 player either.

A guy like Mcdavid was a top 3-5 player since his rookie season. The same was the case for Crosby, OV, Lemieux, and Gretzky.

Matthews was elite but a level or two below that. He's a Yzerman/Sakic/Malkin (healthy) level player if he keeps this up.

Crosby/OV are both a tier above, and then I have Mcdavid/Lemiuex/Gretzky/Howe in tier 1

I think Bedard is slotting a tier above Matthews as a prospect as well, but we'll see at the NHL level.

He played with Hyman and Brown for atleast half of that season and Nylander wasn't close to as good in his rookie season as he's become. The fact that you have McDavid in a tier with Lemieux and Gretzky and not Crosby and Ovechkin really says it all though lol

 

[hamzarocks]

He played with Hyman and Brown for atleast half of that season and Nylander wasn't close to as good in his rookie season as he's become. The fact that you have McDavid in a tier with Lemieux and Gretzky and not Crosby and Ovechkin really says it all though lol

Mcdavid is about to win his 5th ross this year. He's having one of the most dominant seasons ever after a top-10 all-time playoff run last year.

I'm past the point where I need to pretend Crosby (my favorite of the three) and OV are as good as him.

He's got only 2 comparables who dominated the league in terms of offensive output to the extent he has and as long and consistent as he has, and those are 99 and 66

5 Rosses + 4 Lindsays + 3 Harts + 1 Rocket at the age of 26 by year-end is GOAT-level dominance.

 

[authentic]

Mcdavid is about to win his 5th ross this year. He's having one of the most dominant seasons ever after a top-10 all-time playoff run last year.

I'm past the point where I need to pretend Crosby (my favorite of the three) and OV are as good as him.

He's got only 2 comparables who dominated the league in terms of offensive output to the extent he has and as long and consistent as he has, and those are 99 and 66

5 Rosses + 4 Lindsays + 3 Harts + 1 Rocket at the age of 26 by year-end is GOAT-level dominance.

Yet his stats up to the same point are far more comparable to Crosby than Gretzky and Lemieux on a relative basis. Like, by far. I'm talking tiers here like you mentioned, not who was strictly better. Yes McDavid is better offensively than Crosby and Ovechkin, but the difference is not nearly as much as the raw numbers indicate due to the recent scoring increase. I mean a simple look at his stats vs. everyone else in the NHL compared to Crosby, Ovechkin, Lemieux and Gretzky paint a pretty obvious picture.

 

[Jojalu]

that still didn't make him a generational player. Those rookie wingers did include Nylander who was a very highly developed prospect and is around a ppg winger outside of 2019 since his ELC ended

He came 20th in pts and lower in ppg as a rookie. In his next few years, he wasn't a top 5 player either.

A guy like Mcdavid was a top 3-5 player since his rookie season. The same was the case for Crosby, OV, Lemieux, and Gretzky.

Matthews was elite but a level or two below that. He's a Yzerman/Sakic/Malkin (healthy) level player if he keeps this up.

Crosby/OV are both a tier above, and then I have Mcdavid/Lemiuex/Gretzky/Howe in tier 1

I think Bedard is slotting a tier above Matthews as a prospect as well, but we'll see at the NHL level.

Being a generational goal scorer I kind of think makes you a generalational player.

Considering no one has scored more goals since Matthews entered the league puts you up there.

Matthews also joining McDavid, Crosby, Ovie and Malkin as the only active players to reach 500 points in under 450 games puts him there.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yet his stats up to the same point are far more comparable to Crosby than Gretzky and Lemieux on a relative basis. Like, by far. I'm talking tiers here like you mentioned, not who was strictly better. Yes McDavid is better offensively than Crosby and Ovechkin, but the difference is not nearly as much as the raw numbers indicate due to the recent scoring increase. I mean a simple look at his stats vs. everyone else in the NHL compared to Crosby, Ovechkin, Lemieux and Gretzky paint a pretty obvious picture.

Mcdavid has been top 3 in ppg since his rookie season I believe.

OV did not have that long a streak, he was only top 3 I think 4 out of his first 5 years and fell hard after that mostly outside of 2013 and 2015.

Crosby was closer but he was just to injured and didn't have the absolute offensive dominance that a Mcdavid has had imo.

Mcdavid after this year, (assuming he wins the ross which will likely be by 20+ points again) will be at 5. If he ends with another 3 rosses, that's 8 in total and puts him in Gretzky/Lemiuex tier for consistent offensive dominance.

Mcdavid won't be winning 40-50 point rosses, but he's basically the unanimous ross favorite every year since 2017 onwards.

 

[Racer88]

Leafs are not trading a guaranteed generational superstar for a potential franchise superstar unless Matty demands to go to Arizona, signs an 8 year extension and Arizona adds. IMO he will come in closer to $13m AAV.

13m I would be shocked as that’s not much of a raise and he will want every penny he can squeeze out of the Leafs. Dubas has zero leverage with the no trade clause