Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Nobody in Houston would pay $500 million for an expansion team. Especially to have them be second fiddle to the Rockets. There is only one place that would pay $500 million. And it sure seems that is what Karmonos is banking on. Quebec represents his only chance at the big payout, otherwise he gets a lot less. He did seem genuinely interested in the state of the game and the growth he has facilitated in North Carolina, so that weighs in the other direction.

I think Houston has moved to the front of the list for relocating the Yotes. Kansas City is probably 2nd. I think you could get $400 million from Lewiske and Co. for an expansion Seattle team. That market is worth it, raises the TV contract value by $100 million, at least. I am still hoping Bettman and company keep Karmonos to the Raleigh-Durham market, at a reasonable number, say $350 million, for 51%. I think it is a footprint in a rather rich, untapped market. They could profit from an owner who invested heavily on his team. He can earn the rest from expansion ($13 million or so from Seattle) and let Florida relocate to Quebec, with a payout to the league. Viola and co. can break their subsidy with the municipality, and move at any time. Miami was the market Donald Fehr highlighted as one that may not work.

Kansas City is not on anybody's radar, and Florida isn't going anywhere, why bring Florida into a discussion that doesn't involve them, this is solely a Carolina discussion.

 

[voyageur]

Not solely. There are a lot of parts in play, in the bigger picture, I think you will come to see.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

no, Carolina likely stays put, as does Florida.... voyageur, sources where it says Florida is opting out, please, thanks

 

[voyageur]

It was wishful thinking, looking at those empty seats every game is nauseating as a hockey fan, but looks like the county has a 7 year assurance of subsidy, with an opt out in year 9, so I don't think legally there is an option. I think the Panthers in Broward will be the last suburban subsidized arena the NHL ventures into, after epic failures in Glendale and Kanata. Quebec wants in and TVA wants a team to broadcast, as the Habs are Bell property. The NHL knows Quebec will work, Winnipeg provided that framework. It is getting in now that will be the challenge. Karmonos is holding a lot of cards, I honestly have no idea how this saga will go. The optics of moving a Sun Belt team again is bad, but Houston and Seattle getting in would offset it, I think. So I think timing of all the various problems and solutions are still at work. And who knows maybe Quebec never gets back, but the language coming from the NHL does not have me believe that.

 

[TheLegend]

The only way Florida, Carolina, (or any franchise for that matter) will move is if it’s owner wants to move or the league approves a sale with relocation.

We can discuss and post pictures of empty seats until our fingers get worn down to nubs and all we’ll have in the end is squabbling between the fan bases and countless realignment arguments.

 

[Acesolid]

The only way Florida, Carolina, (or any franchise for that matter) will move is if it’s owner wants to move or the league approves a sale with relocation.

We can discuss and post pictures of empty seats until our fingers get worn down to nubs and all we’ll have in the end is squabbling between the fan bases and countless realignment arguments.

Let's be intellectually honest about things. Karmanos has being trying to sell the Hurricanes for years, and that recent ''deal'' is dragging on endlessly with endless rumors of it's demise from serious players.

The empty seats can't possibly help anybody who wants to pay 500 000 000$ for the team get financing!

As for the NHL approving a sale with relocation. I cant see them refusing Karmanos an out after years and years and years of honest attempts to find local buyers.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The NHL is accountable to more than just Peter Karmanos here. The entire premise of having the Hurricanes here to begin with was that this community was willing to put public resources into it. The league won’t just gobble that up and run away — that compromises every future negotiation with a public entity. They will pursue every possibility of keeping the team in place, not just those with an irrational price tag to enrich Karmanos’ heirs.

See Arizona.

 

[Acesolid]

The NHL is accountable to more than just Peter Karmanos here. The entire premise of having the Hurricanes here to begin with was that this community was willing to put public resources into it. The league won’t just gobble that up and run away — that compromises every future negotiation with a public entity. They will pursue every possibility of keeping the team in place, not just those with an irrational price tag to enrich Karmanos’ heirs.

See Arizona.

I disagree, Karmanos has been an owner loyal to the NHL for many, many, many years. He knows everyone in the NHL Sphere. And has been there since before many of them.

If he decides the gig is up and that he's tired of the endless waiting, the NHL will give him what he wants. I bet he knows where the bodies are buried as well.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I disagree, Karmanos has been an owner loyal to the NHL for many, many, many years. He knows everyone in the NHL Sphere. And has been there since before many of them.

If he decides the gig is up and that he's tired of the endless waiting, the NHL will give him what he wants. I bet he knows where the bodies are buried as well.

So Karmanos is loyal to the NHL for many, many, many years and that’s why he’s going to blackmail the BoG on the way out the door?

That’s not how any of this works.

Karmanos is in the same inner circle that has bent over backwards for Glendale and Broward. He’s made it exceedingly clear, in both words and actions, that he’s in no hurry to get a deal done. He’s doubled and tripled down on promises to keep the team in Raleigh, with no threats to move it (compare to his behavior in Hartford). He’s giving Bettman all the time in the world to arrange a buyer. This doesn’t at all smell like a devious plan to spirit the team away, unless you want it to.

 

[Acesolid]

So Karmanos is loyal to the NHL for many, many, many years and that’s why he’s going to blackmail the BoG on the way out the door?

That’s not how any of this works.

Karmanos is in the same inner circle that has bent over backwards for Glendale and Broward. He’s made it exceedingly clear, in both words and actions, that he’s in no hurry to get a deal done. He’s giving Bettman all the time in the world to arrange a buyer.

Sure, but how many years of waiting while Bettman is "arranging a buyer" without any sucess is he willing to tolerate?

He's a trooper, really. But even a zealot has his breaking point. And he will reach it at some point (and it may be some more years), if finding a local buyer (with the money) remains impossible.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sure, but how many years of waiting while Bettman is "arranging a buyer" without any sucess is he willing to tolerate?

He's a trooper, really. But even a zealot has his breaking point. And he will reach it at some point (and it may be some more years), if finding a local buyer (with the money) remains impossible.

I mean he’s pretty much openly stated that the answer is he’s willing to wait more years, plural.

 

[Fairview]

I mean he’s pretty much openly stated that the answer is he’s willing to wait more years, plural.

It certainly looks like it is going to take at least that long. They are looking for a very unique individual here. Someone willing to pay $500+ million, without much hope of ever recouping that money back, and more likely to have to pour more money into the team just to keep it solvent. The only hope for that owner would be to find another victim years down the line, willing to restart the cycle again. There simply isn't enough revenue generated by the league to support such wild franchise valuations.

 

[Headshot77]

The only hope for that owner would be to find another victim years down the line, willing to restart the cycle again. There simply isn't enough revenue generated by the league to support such wild franchise valuations.

Well, you can sell the Hurricanes for $500 million very easily, but they wouldn't stay in Carolina.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I wonder if the Hurricanes could extract an annual subsidy from the county or city the same way the Coyotes and Panthers did from Glendale and Broward County? That would make the franchise more attractive.

 

[DowntownBooster]

It was wishful thinking, looking at those empty seats every game is nauseating as a hockey fan, but looks like the county has a 7 year assurance of subsidy, with an opt out in year 9, so I don't think legally there is an option. I think the Panthers in Broward will be the last suburban subsidized arena the NHL ventures into, after epic failures in Glendale and Kanata.

I'm not sure that Ottawa should be lumped in with Florida and Arizona when it comes to failures in suburban arenas. There may be some empty seats in Ottawa but it's nowhere near to being half empty like in Florida and Arizona. For the most part the fan support in Ottawa is pretty good.

 

[Mightygoose]

I wonder if the Hurricanes could extract an annual subsidy from the county or city the same way the Coyotes and Panthers did from Glendale and Broward County? That would make the franchise more attractive.

Karmanos has said on many occasions that they have one of the best if not they best lease in the NHL.

So while the notion of going to the public body and wanting a better deal to entice a buyer, one would have to examine if it came to that would it make more sense to say no, let the Canes walk when their lease is up and have keep the building revenues and work it out between itself and NC State as there will still be a major tennent for a building that will be paid off by then.

Very different situation from Glendale and Brower Co. Saying that with such a good lease, the longer this drags out without a sale, the greater the concern will be.

Edit: Corrected Univ. name

 

[MNNumbers]

Karmanos has said on many occasions that they have one of the best if not they best lease in the NHL.

So while the notion of going to the public body and wanting a better deal to entice a buyer, one would have to examine if it came to that would it make more sense to say no, let the Canes walk when their lease is up and have keep the building revenues and work it out between itself and UNC as there will still be a major tennent for a building that will be paid off by then.

Very different situation from Glendale and Brower Co. Saying that with such a good lease, the longer this drags out without a sale, the greater the concern will be.

I agree, except it's NC State

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'm not sure that Ottawa should be lumped in with Florida and Arizona when it comes to failures in suburban arenas. There may be some empty seats in Ottawa but it's nowhere near to being half empty like in Florida and Arizona. For the most part the fan support in Ottawa is pretty good.

Agree, but we can also agree Seantors could be a doing a lot better playing in downtown.

Its still a proof that suburban arenas suck ass.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm not sure that Ottawa should be lumped in with Florida and Arizona when it comes to failures in suburban arenas. There may be some empty seats in Ottawa but it's nowhere near to being half empty like in Florida and Arizona. For the most part the fan support in Ottawa is pretty good.

I think they should be. All markets should be treated fairly. Let's see what happens with the downtown arena.

 

[DowntownBooster]

I think they should be. All markets should be treated fairly. Let's see what happens with the downtown arena.

My main point was that Ottawa shouldn't be considered a failure since their attendance has always been pretty reasonable. As far as I know they haven't been playing in front of a half empty arena despite the location of the building.

 

[Melrose Munch]

My main point was that Ottawa shouldn't be considered a failure since their attendance has always been pretty reasonable. As far as I know they haven't been playing in front of a half empty arena despite the location of the building.

But their attendance is bad right now, that the problem.

 

[DowntownBooster]

But their attendance is bad right now, that the problem.

It may be bad as a percentage of attendance to the overall seating capacity compared to the other Canadian teams right now but it's better than Florida or Arizona.

 

[Melrose Munch]

It may be bad as a percentage of attendance to the overall seating capacity compared to the other Canadian teams right now but it's better than Florida or Arizona.

it`s bad compared to boston and even nashville though. Ottawa does deserve to be in that group until playoff games are sold out, which they should be downtown.

 

[DowntownBooster]

it`s bad compared to boston and even nashville though. Ottawa does deserve to be in that group until playoff games are sold out, which they should be downtown.

Just out of curiosity M M, would you know the difference in distance from Edmonton's downtown to the Oilers old arena (Rexall Place) in comparison from Ottawa's downtown to the location of Canadian Tire Centre where the Senators currently play?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Just out of curiosity M M, would you know the difference in distance from Edmonton's downtown to the Oilers old arena (Rexall Place) in comparison from Ottawa's downtown to the location of Canadian Tire Centre where the Senators currently play?

Yes, and I don not think we should be making excuses for Canadian markets.