OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLVI: Really, It's All About Beer and Bojangles

[MinJaBen]

The thing is, people are tired of elites. Political elites, Powerful CEO elites (Gates, the chinese buying up farm land, lies about where covid came from then 3 years later, oh it came from that place) and so on.

No they aren't. They just elected them to the Presidency and his staff.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

No they aren't. They just elected them to the Presidency and his staff.

They elected elites that they believe will screw over “the enemy”, so they’re OK with that. Dealing with shitty medical insurance companies is something that affects all sides of the political spectrum, so there’s a lot more unification here than politics.

The problem is, if you ask 100 people if America’s healthcare system is a mess, you’ll get 100 yeses.
If you ask 100 people what the problem with the American healthcare system is, you’ll get 10 different answers.
And if you ask for solutions to the problems with the American healthcare system is, you’ll get 100 different solutions.

We can identify the problems with our society, but when it comes to solutions to those problems, that’s when we get divided. And the elite know this, so they manipulate us into that divide. And it’s not hard. Call something “woke” or claim it benefits X group more than Y or even just manufacture a random scandal that doesn’t have anything to do with the original problem and the majority of Americans are happy to turn on each other.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Yet another "unforeseen" consequence (like higher premiums, decreased coverage, higher deductibles, consolidation of doctors and facilities under umbrellas, increased costs, increased wait times, etc) of the poorly implemented ACA...it essentially gave insurance all the power to make medical decisions for people, doctors have no power. My mom's been going through it for about 8 months with back problems trying to get a solution, insurance makes her wait 4-6 weeks in between everything they approve, she even had a surgery scheduled and approved but then the next day decided they "didn't have enough information" and nixed it for a few more weeks. She's retired and on Medicare, which is about as useful as having no insurance at all...Medicare is a joke unless you PAY for the supplemental Medicare coverages, which again costs a house payment. We've somehow f***ed up healthcare in this country so badly that we've got the WORST of both private and "government" health insurance/coverage...because we want to band-aid things and try to fix the back-end vs trying to fix the underlying problems with the system. The solution to college debt isn't "loan forgiveness", it's working to bring the costs of an education down, changing the loan process to be less predatory, and teaching people to research the value of their degree (don't get $50k in debt for a degree that will never have +ROI). The solution to healthcare should have never been "just make private insurance companies cover everyone!". It should have been finding a way to reduce red-tape bureaucracy, lowering costs, and encouraging fixing ailments instead of "treating symptoms" (anyone who's had an injury knows the first thing they want to do is 6 months of pain management and physical therapy)

EDIT: agree with what @Blueline Bomber posted while I was typing away. We all know it's a mess, nobody has a good solution that will make everyone happy, so we just keep applying band-aids to broken bones, saying "there there", and wondering why it's getting worse instead of better

 

[Borsig]

They elected elites that they believe will screw over “the enemy”, so they’re OK with that. Dealing with shitty medical insurance companies is something that affects all sides of the political spectrum, so there’s a lot more unification here than politics.

The problem is, if you ask 100 people if America’s healthcare system is a mess, you’ll get 100 yeses.
If you ask 100 people what the problem with the American healthcare system is, you’ll get 10 different answers.
And if you ask for solutions to the problems with the American healthcare system is, you’ll get 100 different solutions.

We can identify the problems with our society, but when it comes to solutions to those problems, that’s when we get divided. And the elite know this, so they manipulate us into that divide. And it’s not hard. Call something “woke” or claim it benefits X group more than Y or even just manufacture a random scandal that doesn’t have anything to do with the original problem and the majority of Americans are happy to turn on each other.

Correct. We threw another hand grenade because people didn't listen to the last one.

And this time with a popular vote victory. Will people listen or triple down? I bet I know the answer.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Correct. We threw another hand grenade because people didn't listen to the last one.

And this time with a popular vote victory. Will people listen or triple down? I bet I know the answer.

Speaking of being manipulated...

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Anyway… don’t bring up prices of medication to me. Or actually do it.

I can give you price comparison for any common medication group in CZE.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Correct. We threw another hand grenade because people didn't listen to the last one.

And this time with a popular vote victory. Will people listen or triple down? I bet I know the answer.

Aight. I’ll fu^king say it.

Y’all need more of that socialism in healthcare.

 

[Svechhammer]

I just realized NBC put a embed block on that video.

Allow me to remedy that with a video that doesn't have their inane babbling

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Aight. I’ll fu^king say it.

Y’all need more of that socialism in healthcare.

A majority of the country believes socialism is the equivalent of communism, and communism is bad. Unless it's Russia, then it's apparently OK?

 

[ONO94]

Aight. I’ll fu^king say it.

Y’all need more of that socialism in healthcare.

At this point, I really only see 2 options for healthcare, the government needs to either take it all over or get all the way out. The gov't clearly can't manage a bi-partite payer system (see what they did to education costs as well) so the only way to "fix" the issue is to go all in, one way or the other.

And say what you will about doctor fees and drug costs - but I don't think UNC/Duke/Baptist have stopped building onto their hospitals in 30 years now. And they are getting nicer. When your hospital starts looking like high end office space with heart monitors - somebody is paying for that...

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

At this point, I really only see 2 options for healthcare, the government needs to either take it all over or get all the way out. The gov't clearly can't manage a bi-partite payer system (see what they did to education costs as well) so the only way to "fix" the issue is to go all in, one way or the other.

And say what you will about doctor fees and drug costs - but I don't think UNC/Duke/Baptist have stopped building onto their hospitals in 30 years now. And they are getting nicer. When your hospital starts looking like high end office space with heart monitors - somebody is paying for that...

Thaťs the point. Imagine if all that profit was turned to… you know benefit for US population.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

A majority of the country believes socialism is the equivalent of communism, and communism is bad. Unless it's Russia, then it's apparently OK?

Russians have fascist oligarchy now. Current government only hides behind Soviet Union symbols and achievements.

Funnily enough I respect USSR more than RF.

Because of their part to beat Germany in WW2 and because of their space research. Like I respect that as a boon to Humanity.

RF has none of this.

 

[Svechhammer]

Thaťs the point. Imagine if all that profit was turned to… you know benefit for US population.

No no, you see we can't ask the rich to pay their fair share, because, as we all know, their profits trickle down to help us all out!

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Obviously, other factors (like the easy access to firearms) affects that life expectancy as well, but I'd say Americans MIGHT be getting conned re: healthcare

I wonder what happened around the 1983-85 to start that departure from the rest of the developed countries

Or is this another thing Reagan is likely responsible for?

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

View attachment 940793

Obviously, other factors (like the easy access to firearms) affects that life expectancy as well, but I'd say Americans MIGHT be getting conned re: healthcare

I wonder what happened around the 1983-85 to start that departure from the rest of the developed countries

Or is this another thing Reagan is likely responsible for?

80s - hep B vaccine, MRI, surgery robots, statins (cholesterol drugs)
Boon in immunology and autoimmune diseases. Development of Humulin insuline.

Aaaaand starting to focus on prevention.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Now change that US graph to only show rich people.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

80s - hep B vaccine, MRI, surgery robots, statins (cholesterol drugs)
Boon in immunology and autoimmune diseases. Development of Humulin insuline.

Aaaaand starting to focus on prevention.

Right, but all countries started to doing that. That's why all the counties started having their life expectancy rise.

The US was spending about the same on healthcare as the other countries around 1980, but by 2000, they were around $2500-3000 more than the rest, and $5000 more than Israel, despite the life expectancy of all the countries remaining about the same

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Right, but all countries started to doing that. That's why all the counties started having their life expectancy rise.

The US was spending about the same on healthcare as the other countries around 1980, but by 2000, they were around $2500-3000 more than the rest, and $5000 more than Israel, despite the life expectancy of all the countries remaining about the same

I was implying the issue was implementation of these.

We could talk about prices of insulin.

 

[MinJaBen]

View attachment 940793

Obviously, other factors (like the easy access to firearms) affects that life expectancy as well, but I'd say Americans MIGHT be getting conned re: healthcare

I wonder what happened around the 1983-85 to start that departure from the rest of the developed countries

Or is this another thing Reagan is likely responsible for?

The thing that happened in the mid-80's may not be so much of a "what did we change in healthcare" as much as it may be that boomers and earlier generations that were the first to move away from the generally healthier eating habits (less meat, no fast foods, less processed foods) were now reaching their forties and fifties, and heart disease and other co-morbidities associated with terrible diets were now showing themselves. And we had the means to save a bunch of people that would have just keeled over in the past. So life expectancy continues to go up but at increasing costs as we are fighting our less healthy lifestyle as compared to the other countries in that graph.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

The thing that happened in the mid-80's may not be so much of a "what did we change in healthcare" as much as it may be that boomers and earlier generations that were the first to move away from the generally healthier eating habits (less meat, no fast foods, less processed foods) were now reaching their forties and fifties, and heart disease and other co-morbidities associated with terrible diets were now showing themselves. And we had the means to save a bunch of people that would have just keeled over in the past. So life expectancy continues to go up but at increasing costs as we are fighting our less healthy lifestyle as compared to the other countries in that graph.

Yeah. PREVENTION.

 

[Svechhammer]

Now change that US graph to only show rich people.

From what I am reading, doctors are concerned that they're finding an increasing amount of lead in the bloodwork of rich people. Unfortunately, due to these pre-existing conditions, its unlikely any treatments would be covered by insurance.

 

[Unsustainable]

Aight. I’ll fu^king say it.

Y’all need more of that socialism in healthcare.

Easy for European countries to do so since they don't fund the rest of the world.

 

[Borsig]

Aight. I’ll fu^king say it.

Y’all need more of that socialism in healthcare.

Lol tell me you've never been to the VA without actually saying it

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm sorry, but anyone dumb enough to invest in a hawk tuah crypocurrency deserves any losses they encounter.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Easy for European countries to do so since they don't fund the rest of the world.

Much like climate change funding and military funding, we get to foot the bill for everyone else either directly ($$) or indirectly (inventions/research). Also, most EU countries are also like 1/20th the size of population and land area, along with having much more homogenous populations...it's a lot easier to implement and control. Not saying it wouldn't be possible to do here, but there are a lot more hurdles and difficulties facing us, plus people understandably don't trust our government these days.

I'm sorry, but anyone dumb enough to invest in a hawk tuah crypocurrency deserves any losses they encounter.

At least they're getting lubed before they get f***ed?