OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLVI: Really, It's All About Beer and Bojangles

cptjeff

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Sep 18, 2008
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I saw a post yesterday that called it the death of one of America's biggest serial killers.
Denying medical care kills people every single day in this country. When you kill somebody by typing something into a spreadsheet or a decision in a board room, they're just as dead as if you shoot them on the street.

The fact that the law doesn't treat guys like this exactly as if they're mass murderers is why people feel so desperate and alienated right now.

Want another fun one? The total value of all retail theft in this country is something like 4% of the total value of all wage theft. Wanna guess how many employers have done time for wage theft or how often it's prosecuted compared to shoplifting?
 

Svechhammer

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Jun 8, 2017
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Denying medical care kills people every single day in this country. When you kill somebody by typing something into a spreadsheet or a decision in a board room, they're just as dead as if you shoot them on the street.

The fact that the law doesn't treat guys like this exactly as if they're mass murderers is why people feel so desperate and alienated right now.

Want another fun one? The total value of all retail theft in this country is something like 4% of the total value of all wage theft. Wanna guess how many employers have done time for wage theft or how often it's prosecuted compared to shoplifting?
I mean you're allowed to murder people to protect against property theft. Would be a shame if the same applied to wage theft
 

Surrounded By Ahos

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Denying medical care kills people every single day in this country. When you kill somebody by typing something into a spreadsheet or a decision in a board room, they're just as dead as if you shoot them on the street.

The fact that the law doesn't treat guys like this exactly as if they're mass murderers is why people feel so desperate and alienated right now.

Want another fun one? The total value of all retail theft in this country is something like 4% of the total value of all wage theft. Wanna guess how many employers have done time for wage theft or how often it's prosecuted compared to shoplifting?
As always, there is a Pratchett quote that fits:


“Do you understand what I'm saying?"
shouted Moist. "You can't just go around killing people!"
"Why Not? You Do." The golem lowered his arm.
"What?" snapped Moist. "I do not! Who told you that?"
"I Worked It Out. You Have Killed Two Point Three Three Eight People," said the golem calmly.
"I have never laid a finger on anyone in my life, Mr Pump. I may be–– all the things you know I am, but I am not a killer! I have never so much as drawn a sword!"
"No, You Have Not. But You Have Stolen, Embezzled, Defrauded And Swindled Without Discrimination, Mr Lipvig. You Have Ruined Businesses And Destroyed Jobs. When Banks Fail, It Is Seldom Bankers Who Starve. Your Actions Have Taken Money From Those Who Had Little Enough To Begin With. In A Myriad Small Ways You Have Hastened The Deaths Of Many. You Do Not Know Them. You Did Not See Them Bleed. But You Snatched Bread From Their Mouths And Tore Clothes From Their Backs. For Sport, Mr Lipvig. For Sport. For The Joy Of The Game.”


Emphasis mine.
 

cptjeff

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As always, there is a Pratchett quote that fits:


“Do you understand what I'm saying?"
shouted Moist. "You can't just go around killing people!"
"Why Not? You Do." The golem lowered his arm.
"What?" snapped Moist. "I do not! Who told you that?"
"I Worked It Out. You Have Killed Two Point Three Three Eight People," said the golem calmly.
"I have never laid a finger on anyone in my life, Mr Pump. I may be–– all the things you know I am, but I am not a killer! I have never so much as drawn a sword!"
"No, You Have Not. But You Have Stolen, Embezzled, Defrauded And Swindled Without Discrimination, Mr Lipvig. You Have Ruined Businesses And Destroyed Jobs. When Banks Fail, It Is Seldom Bankers Who Starve. Your Actions Have Taken Money From Those Who Had Little Enough To Begin With. In A Myriad Small Ways You Have Hastened The Deaths Of Many. You Do Not Know Them. You Did Not See Them Bleed. But You Snatched Bread From Their Mouths And Tore Clothes From Their Backs. For Sport, Mr Lipvig. For Sport. For The Joy Of The Game.”


Emphasis mine.
I mean, this guy's a lot more directly responsible than that. Health insurance claim denials of drugs and medical equipment often have immediate and direct life or death consequences. Lifesaving treatments denied, people die. And UHC's rate of denying claims apparently increased significantly under this guy.
 

MinJaBen

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Denying medical care kills people every single day in this country. When you kill somebody by typing something into a spreadsheet or a decision in a board room, they're just as dead as if you shoot them on the street.

And how many people die if the insurance companies don’t manage their costs and go bankrupt? I’m not try to excuse all their actions, but it is not as simple as you made it out to be, of course.
 

Derailed75

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I don't guys I won't say much other than you guys are advocating murdering someone in cold blood because they didn't pay for something you think they should have.

That's a pretty sad thought.
 

Svechhammer

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And how many people die if the insurance companies don’t manage their costs and go bankrupt? I’m not try to excuse all their actions, but it is not as simple as you made it out to be, of course.
If insurance companies operated the way in which they should they would be a tremendous benefit to society and legitimately lifesaving to millions

Unfortunately, the exact opposite is true nowadays
 

cptjeff

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And how many people die if the insurance companies don’t manage their costs and go bankrupt? I’m not try to excuse all their actions, but it is not as simple as you made it out to be, of course.
America spends twice as much on healthcare than any other developed country, and we get worse health outcomes.

Privatized health insurance literally makes their profits by denying necessary care and charging people extra for the privilege.

I don't advocate for violence. But I won't shed a single tear over this guy's death.
 

MinJaBen

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America spends twice as much on healthcare than any other developed country, and we get worse health outcomes.

Privatized health insurance literally makes their profits by denying necessary care and charging people extra for the privilege.

I’m all for a “Medicare for all” model of healthcare delivery. But we don’t have that now, so insurance companies have some need to protect their customers on aggregate by managing costs to a degree. Do some, including the guy that was killed’s company, go too far? Absolutely. Did the guy deserve to be killed? No f***ing way.
 
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Derailed75

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I’m all for a “Medicare for all” model of healthcare delivery. But we don’t have that now, so insurance companies have some need to protect their customers on aggregate by managing costs to a degree. Do some, including the guy that was killed’s company, go too far? Absolutely. Did the guy deserve to be killed? No f***ing way.

Personally I think all insurance specially if it's forced by the government is a form a racketeering, with that being said the fact that hospitals charge 12 dollars for an asprin is where the problem starts and also where we should start the solution. Killing CEO's of insurance companies is about 50,000 on the list of ways to fix this if it should be there at all.
 

Blueline Bomber

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I don't guys I won't say much other than you guys are advocating murdering someone in cold blood because they didn't pay for something you think they should have.

That's a pretty sad thought.

Ultimately, this guy's funeral will be paid for with money made on the deaths of countless others. It's hard to garner sympathy there
 

Derailed75

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Ultimately, this guy's funeral will be paid for with money made on the deaths of countless others. It's hard to garner sympathy there
But is it i mean why is it insurance companies responsibility to pay for an individuals care? As I said first and foremost medical billing is to blame and needs to be fixed. Secondly personal responsibility needs to be fixed long before we stop eradicating CEO's who's job is to make the share holders money. Maybe blame the real problem and start with fix8ng that before we indiscriminately start offing fathers, brothers, children, sisters, wifes and moms because we hate that they did their job well.
 
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Blueline Bomber

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But is it i mean why is it insurance companies responsibility to pay for an individuals care? As I said first and foremost medical billing is to blame and needs to be fixed. Secondly personal responsibility needs to be fixed long before we stop eradicating CEO's who's job is to make the share holders money. Maybe blame the real problem and start with fix8ng that before we indiscriminately start offing fathers, brothers, children, sisters, wifes and moms because we hate that they did their job well.

Depends on what you consider to be his job to be. As I posted earlier, UHC denied claims at twice the rate of the industry standard. So is it the job of the insurance company to deny insurance claims?
 
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Derailed75

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Depends on what you consider to be his job to be. As I posted earlier, UHC denied claims at twice the rate of the industry standard. So is it the job of the insurance company to deny insurance claims?
It's the job of a CEO of any company to make the company more successful period regardless of the industry. What the medical industry charges for things is 1000% more responsible for this type of thing than insurance companies and also as individuals its your responsibility to be able to afford your lives including your medical expenses. Why most people can't don't that coyld take us down a very long rabbit hole.
 

Blueline Bomber

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It's the job of a CEO of any company to make the company more successful period regardless of the industry. What the medical industry charges for things is 1000% more responsible for this type of thing than insurance companies and also as individuals its your responsibility to be able to afford your lives including your medical expenses. Why most people can't don't that coyld take us down a very long rabbit hole.

No one can afford the medical expenses, which is why they get medical insurance. So when the medical insurance denies their claim, often for very stupid reasons, people are saddled with unreasonable medical debt and are, understandably, upset.
 

Svechhammer

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It's the job of a CEO of any company to make the company more successful period regardless of the industry. What the medical industry charges for things is 1000% more responsible for this type of thing than insurance companies and also as individuals its your responsibility to be able to afford your lives including your medical expenses. Why most people can't don't that coyld take us down a very long rabbit hole.
Man his way of making the company successful was by denying claims and bankrupting others by forcing them to pay out of pocket for services that absolutely should be covered or by letting them die by outright denying them the care they need.

Sorry if I have absolutely zero sympathies for him getting shot when he is spearheading a company that treats humans like that.
 
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Derailed75

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No one can afford the medical expenses, which is why they get medical insurance. So when the medical insurance denies their claim, often for very stupid reasons, people are saddled with unreasonable medical debt and are, understandably, upset.
Again let's address why medical billing bills 12 dollars for one f***ing asprin pill when you can get a bottle of 500 for 4 bucks at a store!

Medical billing is a mich bigger issue than insurance.

20 years ago I broke my ankle. My insurance BCBS didn't pay until after the hospital billed me so I got to see and itemized bill. They would have charged me $150 dollar to use the cordless drill that turned the 6 screws they put in place. If you didn't catch that to USE THE DRILL that cost probably 85 buck at the time they wanted to charge me $150.

That's a mich bigger issue

Man his way of making the company successful was by denying claims and bankrupting others by forcing them to pay out of pocket for services that absolutely should be covered or by letting them die by outright denying them the care they need.

Sorry if I have absolutely zero sympathies for him getting shot when he is spearheading a company that treats humans like that.
I guess we should start shooting the CEO's of energy compaines when they cut off people's power if they don't pay too
 

Chan790

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It's the job of a CEO of any company to make the company more successful period regardless of the industry. What the medical industry charges for things is 1000% more responsible for this type of thing than insurance companies and also as individuals its your responsibility to be able to afford your lives including your medical expenses. Why most people can't don't that coyld take us down a very long rabbit hole.
I think the simpler answer here, the one that doesn't require murdering anybody...and I do consider Thompson to be a murderer too; I lament he will never go to prison...is to socialize all the health insurers and make them function as NPOs, after wiping out all shareholder value (I have no sympathy for them. Investing in for-profit insurers is immoral and they deserve the fiscal obliteration.) and delisting insurance companies from the exchanges. Next, do the hospital groups.

They simply should not be allowed to operate as for-profit entities. Eliminating their capacity and obligation to generate a profit would do more to deal with the problems of healthcare than your concerns about overpriced aspirin.

Of course, I'm an extremist though, forget Medicare for All...I think we need a US NHS.
 

Derailed75

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That's not the same thing at all, but you knew that
Why isn't it? People not having power leads to d a th quite frequently. Not being able to pay for your health care leads to death. Again if medical care was affordable we wouldn't be blaming insurance would we?
 

Blueline Bomber

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Why isn't it? People not having power leads to d a th quite frequently. Not being able to pay for your health care leads to death. Again if medical care was affordable we wouldn't be blaming insurance would we?

Medical costs being high is an issue, but the fact of the matter is people pay a good chunk of change every month for medical insurance, with the understanding that if it comes to worst case scenario, that insurance will cover their medical expenses. Instead, the insurance companies often spend more time working on how NOT to pay. Add in the fact that this denial often comes at a very stressful or distraught time for the insurance holder, and they're rightfully pissed off.
 

Borsig

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Nov 3, 2007
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I mean.

Im kinda with the crazies on this one.

I dont wish for death of people like that. But I also don't really care that the CEO of the most notorious claim denier got shot in the back. Oh well?


FWIW - most of you may not know my wife is a very sick girl. Not cancer sick, but she has a genetic disorder that causes a lot of problems, and chronic pancreatitis. We constantly get denied stuff for her Genetic condition, which causes ,mostly benign tumors to grow on her NERVES. They are painful. and numerous. But because they are mostly benign it's considered cosmetic, because they only cause pain and discomfort and not death I guess?

So yeah. I'll have a coke, I'm not sorry, and sometimes people get what the deserve.
 

Surrounded By Ahos

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Secondly personal responsibility needs to be fixed long before we stop eradicating CEO's who's job is to make the share holders money.
If the main job of a health insurance company is to deliver profits to their shareholders instead of covering surgeries and medication for their clients, executives are going to keep getting shot, and I won't shed a single tear over that.
 

Derailed75

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If the main job of a health insurance company is to deliver profits to their shareholders instead of covering surgeries and medication for their clients, executives are going to keep getting shot, and I won't shed a single tear over that.
Any CEO's job is to make shareholders money.
 

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