Speculation: How would you go about a rebuild?

[REALTALK81]

Hello all,

It's been some years since we heard "there will be pain" when we decided to rebuild. Given the chance to rebuild again, how would you go about it? What style of game would you want your team to play? I would personally go the route of building from the net out or at the very least, draft defenceman before focusing on forwards (like Chicago did with Keith and Seabrook) but what say you, fellow Leaf fans?

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[ACC1224]

Don't hire a rookie GM to lead it.

 

[REALTALK81]

Don't hire a rookie GM to lead it.

I can see that. More so because of negotiations skills. I also was not a fan of an accelerated rebuild with a heavy focus on skilled forwards who play "small'.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Lock up your stars coming off ELCs to max term deals.

 

[ER89]

Don't hire a rookie GM to lead it.

All we had to do was let Lou negotiate deals. But Babcock and his idiocy and Dubas and his trash negotiation skills f***ed us

 

[PromisedLand]

Top 10

1. Don't hire a rookie GM who thinks they are the smartest in the room and can't do wrong

2. Don't overpay for your top picks and lock them long term so you have extended kick at the can (i.e. cup) with controlled costs

3. Don't blow your load all on forwards and balance the team with #1D and servicible goalie (sparks/mcbackup/campbell/mrazek/pickard/etc... that was absolutely STUPID)

4. Don't do stupid trades like a cost controlled asset in kadri for a bunch of freakin' nobodies

5. Preach Will>Skill; do not coddle the core and don't instill a sense of entitlement; logo on the front means more than name on the back mindset should be enforced from the get-go

6. Never ask your coach to walk back comments; if u don't like the coach change them or change the roster

7. Do not keep spending draft picks for rentals for the set of players who haven't shown they can play playoff hockey until they show they can play playoff hockey then you help them

8. Don't make trades for the sake of making trades and do not empty your cupboards.

9. Have an understanding when your team with the same core pieces shits the bed (ex: against habs); do not f***ing go out saying "We are running it back as we almost won the cup" (yes thats how they approached it); have the balls to make bold moves

10. More importantly have a FORESIGHT when re-building

 

[notbias]

Lock up your stars coming off ELCs to max term deals.

I feel like this doesn't happen as often as people think...

Pettersson, Hughes, Dahlin, Makar, Kaprizov, Rantanen, Larkin, Pastrnak, Forsberg, Stamkos, Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Zegras, Debrincat, Tkachuk, Roberston, PLD, Laine, Werenski, Barzal, Point, and many more have all signed for 6 or less while an RFA.

The real key to being a successful team it appears is hoping that star players suck in their first few years so you get insane discounts, like a MacKinnon or J. Hughes.

Outside of that, hoping a pandemic doesn't happen is also good.

 

[ACC1224]

All we had to do was let Lou negotiate deals. But Babcock and his idiocy and Dubas and his trash negotiation skills f***ed us

Agree with all except the Lou part. He would have gotten better deals, no doubt but he may also have pissed off the players.
Needed a GM somewhere between the two.

 

[kevsh]

First, sell the franchise to an owner that doesn't treat the team like a corporation (And on this point I could write an essay, but I'm lazy today so I'll spare you all).

As long as the Leafs are owned by MLSE, there's no point in rebuilding just to get back to where we are now.

 

[ACC1224]

First, sell the franchise to an owner that doesn't treat the team like a corporation (And on this point I could write an essay, but I'm lazy today so I'll spare you all).

As long as the Leafs are owned by MLSE, there's no point in rebuilding just to get back to where we are now.

They just rebuilt with these Owners. The team isn't the way they are because of the owners.

 

[GoonieFace]

Hope your “core” doesn’t contain a bunch of soft babies, robotic drones and handsome Swedish guys?

 

[REALTALK81]

The intention of this thread was not so much to focus on bad deals of the past but to ask how you would build a team and what style would you want them to play? I would focus on young players like Jiricek, Schneider, etc first so we could have some snarl on the back end before we draft forwards. That way when the Dmen are getting close to their primes, you can add the offensive weapons and grit up front to challenge for a cup on a consistent basis.

 

[Buds17]

This team won't be rebuilding at this point, nor should they be entertaining such thoughts.

In keeping with the spirit of the thread though, draft whatever possible whenever it's possible. Chicago selected both Keith and Seabrook (particularly the former) later on in their respective drafts in comparison to where Kane and Toews landed. It's tough to determine if Chicago truly knew what they were getting on the blueline in those moments.

 

[studebaker17]

The intention of this thread was not so much to focus on bad deals of the past but to ask how you would build a team and what style would you want them to play? I would focus on young players like Jiricek, Schneider, etc first so we could have some snarl on the back end before we draft forwards. That way when the Dmen are getting close to their primes, you can add the offensive weapons and grit up front to challenge for a cup on a consistent basis.

Think most people would agree on the basic premise of building from the net out with the best players possible along with a team with some jam . Its how you go about actually implimenting that game plan . The players have to be available in draft positions or in trade .
Dont think for the most part the leafs drafted the wrong players .think where they went wrong was not trading them for a different mix .
For the record we did build from the d out with schenn then reilly . I know schenn was traded away but with the limited high picks back then they did draft 2 defencemen.
Goalies are voodo so if you get a star out of the draft you're pretty damned lucky .

 

[studebaker17]

Along the thought lines how this current team was built .

Should of brought nylander up sooner . His contract would of been up sooner and they would of been able to lock him up cheaper . Then to compound it they could of closed a deal sooner when elligible and didnt .
Marner same thing . Not sure he was capable of coming up sooner but definatly should of negotiated a year earlier.
Both scenarios leafs waited to long . This is why other teams lock up great young players for cheaper contracts .

Mathews should of been negotiated earler as well. Market in just 6 months at that time skyrocketed . Mostly due to mcdavid . But with tavares on the team it still probably would of been similar .

Tavares should not of been signed . Only reason was salary structure is now way out of whack starting with that contract .

Kadri never should of been traded , especially for medioccur players . Completely wasted asset . Without the tavares signing kadri would be a great 2nd line centre .

Hanging onto all these guys until they had no trade clauses kick in . May work out anyways but now you have no choice really to go with them.

Trading every high pick we have for rentals . Team wasnt that close yet to justify it . Its also debatable if that stuff even works tbh.

 

[rumman]

Hello all,

It's been some years since we heard "there will be pain" when we decided to rebuild. Given the chance to rebuild again, how would you go about it? What style of game would you want your team to play? I would personally go the route of building from the net out or at the very least, draft defenceman before focusing on forwards (like Chicago did with Keith and Seabrook) but what say you, fellow Leaf fans?

From the top down……..

 

[rumman]

First, sell the franchise to an owner that doesn't treat the team like a corporation (And on this point I could write an essay, but I'm lazy today so I'll spare you all).

As long as the Leafs are owned by MLSE, there's no point in rebuilding just to get back to where we are now.

Sadly, I agree with you. Bell and Rogers owning the team won’t lead to a cup win, having a single owner with deep pockets AND a passion for winning is what this team needs. Oh, and having another team in the GTA wouldn’t hurt either……….

 

[nuck]

I can see that. More so because of negotiations skills. I also was not a fan of an accelerated rebuild with a heavy focus on skilled forwards who play "small'.

By the time Dubas got there the club was already "built" with a 100pt season behind them and a bunch of young fire power. His directional choices were not really part of a rebuild any more so that's maybe a different area of discussion.

Hindsight is 20-20 but building from the net out could still still have happened with AM, Willie and Mitch. Its like Lou forgot he had Stevens, Niedermayer and Rafalski in Jersey. He could have thought the old Devils teams were just too different to emulate and maybe focused on the more Leaf-like Hawks teams but the Leafs didn't have close to a Keith, - Seabrooke - Hjalmarsson trio either

If the club had made an effort in the post thug years to add some more defensively aware quality D that would have carried into the rebuild. Guys like Franson, injured Gunnarsson, Roman Polak came and went and that was the level of guys they used, and when they left, no real effort was done to upgrade. They did add Gardiner who looked like he could be something but really he just fell into their lap

It starts with Burke and the Kessel trade where the club was under the false illusion they were close to competing but in 2014 they passed over Niskanen, Stralman, Ehrhioff, and Oduya in 2015. Not superstars but UFA players that would have been there to anchor the big 3 when they arrived. Now long term they weren't really locked into defensiive mediocrity by the cap until the Tavares signing which took them out of Hamilton and Pietro, and maybe Larsson and Oleksiak,

Right after the Shanny hire they should have started building the D right but so far three GMs have not figured that out..

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I can see that. More so because of negotiations skills. I also was not a fan of an accelerated rebuild with a heavy focus on skilled forwards who play "small'.

Agreed. Stay away from the players with just "High Hockey IQ's" as their main calling card. "Is he big?-no...is he mean?-no...does he have a high IQ or went to an ivy league school?- yes.....Is he between 5'8" and 5'11" and around 170-185?- yes...welcome to the team, expect a welcome letter from Kyle in your inbox."

For someone who was supposed to be an out of the box thinker...he sure did get stuck in the IQ loop...much to our detriment over the last 5yrs.

 

[Nineteen67]

They have a short window to find a couple of big, fast D, ideally one with a mean streak.
Im still not convinced Matthews knows how to win. One of the best shinny players in the NHL but can he win three or four rounds? He was great and had fun playing the game against Chicago where he he put his hand to his ear, but wasn’t so great against TTOE in the playoff series.

But still, they have to build around him and hope for the best, but there‘s a path to trading him if he doesn’t pick it up in the biggest moments.

 

[-DeMo-]

All we had to do was let Lou negotiate deals. But Babcock and his idiocy and Dubas and his trash negotiation skills f***ed us

what makes people think Lou is a great negotiator? Zaitsev/Marleau/Pageau/Komarov(NYI) contracts were beyond awful and those are just some examples. even in NYI it's not like Barzal's contract or Horvats deal or even Sorokin's deals are steals either.

like Barzal coming out of his ELC he signed him to a 3 year deal. worst then Matthews Length. then coming off a 59 point in 73 games he signed him to a 9.1 million dollar deal for 8 years. and people complain about Marner at 11. you get an extra 40 points for 2 million.

 

[Jojalu]

Don't hire a rookie GM to lead it.

The rebuild was pretty much done by the Time Dubas arrived. They had already made the playoffs multiple times. Already passed the 100 point threshold. He didn't draft any of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly.

 

[Menzinger]

Hope you get as lucky as the draft as they 2014-16. Otherwise it will probably take quite a while

 

[Hellcat]

Hockey is simple you build from the net out and up the middle. I'd protect my 1st and 2nd round picks and look for value deals in the UFA market. Gillick had the right philosophy that he said (but later changed his mind) never sign anyone to a contract over 3 years and he would only trade with teams that had a winning atmosphere (which he later changed his stance), he wanted guys who had a history of being on winning teams, thinking that would bring that attitude to his locker room.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Hope you get as lucky as the draft as they 2014-16. Otherwise it will probably take quite a while

Bingo!

You can argue about mistakes they made afterwards, but you can't start a rebuild without drafting really well.