TSN: How the coronavirus could impact the NHL’s bottom line UPD: NHL Season suspended MOD Warning post139

[tny760]

I'm obviously pretty big on using the models to show people what CAN happen, but there has to be SOME balance between millions of dead and "we're good by Easter, go to church."

Everyone sucks.

that's modern society for you, everyone has to be so absolutely sure they're on the right side it becomes this huge black and white thing

can't predict it, can't make sense of it, all we can do is take reasonable precautions and chill the f*** out. that's why i try and disconnect myself from the news and just look at the CDPH numbers nightly to draw my own conclusion

 

[LAKings88]

Read articles by nurses and doctors. Read about Italy, New York, and New Orleans. You don’t want this stuff at all. You isolate at home with painful symptoms hoping it doesn’t turn into pneumonia. Hospital supplies are low. No adequate quick testing for all. If a family member gets it severe they will be in a hospital alone. It’s shut down or risk overwhelming hospitals. It’s not just an old person virus either. Can’t believe that people are discussing letting any group just die. Wealth is there and should be dispersed correctly in times of crises.

Where is Trump’s declaration of war on this? Where is the collective war effort to produce supplies. Trump gave into lobbyists and private business. Follow the money. Back by Easter, we are at the start and probably will look like New York in a couple weeks. We haven’t reached peak yet. People you know will start getting it and dying unless the curve is flattened.

 

[Lt Dan]

‘We Take the Dead From Morning Till Night’

 

[HeadInjury]

Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are now being given to thousands of patients in New York. I guess we will see if they have any effect.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ment-its-now-being-tested-thousands-new-york/

 

[HeadInjury]

The Netherlands had originally decided to forgo the strictest measures, allow the virus to spread and attempt to obtain herd immunity. They abandoned that a while back after they realized it would lead to too many deaths. Now, their death rate per million is 32. That's the third highest in the world. Italy is at 136 and Spain is at 104. After the Netherlands, Iran is at 28 and France is at 26.

We are at 4, but that will rise significantly.

My doctor friend says another doctor has tested positive, although it is not believed he acquired it at their hospital. He had spent some time around someone outside of work who tested positive.

 

[HeadInjury]

For those ready to bash the US healthcare system, look at this chart. From an ICU standpoint, we're far more prepared for something like this than anyone.

Country	ICU beds per 100,000 people	Per Capita Healthcare Cost**	Life Expectancy at Birth
United States	20.0–31.7	$7,164	79
Canada	13.5	$3,867	81
Denmark	6.7–8.9	$3,814	79
Australia	8.0–8.9	$3,365	82
South Africa	8.9	$843	54
Sweden	5.8–8.7	$3,622	81
Spain	8.2–9.7	$2,941	82
Japan	7.9	$2,817	83
UK	3.5–7.4	$3,222	80
New Zealand	4.8–5.5	$2,655	81
China	2.8–4.6	$265	74
Trinidad & Tobago	2.1	$1,237	70
Sri Lanka	1.6	$187	71
Zambia	--	$80	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Bandit]

For those ready to bash the US healthcare system, look at this chart. From an ICU standpoint, we're far more prepared for something like this than anyone.

Country	ICU beds per 100,000 people	Per Capita Healthcare Cost**	Life Expectancy at Birth
United States	20.0–31.7	$7,164	79
Canada	13.5	$3,867	81
Denmark	6.7–8.9	$3,814	79
Australia	8.0–8.9	$3,365	82
South Africa	8.9	$843	54
Sweden	5.8–8.7	$3,622	81
Spain	8.2–9.7	$2,941	82
Japan	7.9	$2,817	83
UK	3.5–7.4	$3,222	80
New Zealand	4.8–5.5	$2,655	81
China	2.8–4.6	$265	74
Trinidad & Tobago	2.1	$1,237	70
Sri Lanka	1.6	$187	71
Zambia	--	$80	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

What's with the ranges? Pretty big difference between 20 & 31.7. Also our costs are nearly double so you'd hope we have more facilities.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Read articles by nurses and doctors. Read about Italy, New York, and New Orleans. You don’t want this stuff at all. You isolate at home with painful symptoms hoping it doesn’t turn into pneumonia. Hospital supplies are low. No adequate quick testing for all. If a family member gets it severe they will be in a hospital alone. It’s shut down or risk overwhelming hospitals. It’s not just an old person virus either. Can’t believe that people are discussing letting any group just die. Wealth is there and should be dispersed correctly in times of crises.

Where is Trump’s declaration of war on this? Where is the collective war effort to produce supplies. Trump gave into lobbyists and private business. Follow the money. Back by Easter, we are at the start and probably will look like New York in a couple weeks. We haven’t reached peak yet. People you know will start getting it and dying unless the curve is flattened.

Told my wife this morning, god forbid her or my daughter contract it, they will have to kill me to keep me from staying with them, I don't care.

 

[HeadInjury]

What's with the ranges? Pretty big difference between 20 & 31.7. Also our costs are nearly double so you'd hope we have more facilities.

Must be estimates. One of the reasons our costs are higher is that better care costs more.

919 deaths in Italy today.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

For those ready to bash the US healthcare system, look at this chart. From an ICU standpoint, we're far more prepared for something like this than anyone.

Country	ICU beds per 100,000 people	Per Capita Healthcare Cost**	Life Expectancy at Birth
United States	20.0–31.7	$7,164	79
Canada	13.5	$3,867	81
Denmark	6.7–8.9	$3,814	79
Australia	8.0–8.9	$3,365	82
South Africa	8.9	$843	54
Sweden	5.8–8.7	$3,622	81
Spain	8.2–9.7	$2,941	82
Japan	7.9	$2,817	83
UK	3.5–7.4	$3,222	80
New Zealand	4.8–5.5	$2,655	81
China	2.8–4.6	$265	74
Trinidad & Tobago	2.1	$1,237	70
Sri Lanka	1.6	$187	71
Zambia	--	$80	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Problem is that we use a lot of that capacity at any given time.

Read this morning somewhere that LA in particular is at 90% ICU capacity even before this.

It's not just about the Covid patients, if you get overwhelmed, people start dying from ultimately preventable things due to lack of care. And god forbid when you start losing medical staff, respiratory therapists.

Edit: not the one I read, but relevant info: ICU beds already near capacity with non-coronavirus patients at L.A. County hospitals

 

[KINGS17]

Problem is that we use a lot of that capacity at any given time.

Read this morning somewhere that LA in particular is at 90% ICU capacity even before this.

It's not just about the Covid patients, if you get overwhelmed, people start dying from ultimately preventable things due to lack of care. And god forbid when you start losing medical staff, respiratory therapists.

Edit: not the one I read, but relevant info: ICU beds already near capacity with non-coronavirus patients at L.A. County hospitals

I think part of the ICU's being filled to 90% capacity in LA is due to their homeless problem. These people don't seek or get medical attention until they are in need of an ICU bed. Bottom line is you can't let a substantial amount of people live on the street in squalor, and addicted to drugs and alcohol, and not expect them to be a stress on the health care system.

Garcetti has needed to clean that situation up for a long time, and now we can see one of the reasons why.

 

[HeadInjury]

Per the Boston Herald, some experts doing modeling believe there are 10 times as many cases as the official counts in US. Our official count is just under 100,000 currently.

 

[Fishhead]

For those ready to bash the US healthcare system, look at this chart. From an ICU standpoint, we're far more prepared for something like this than anyone.

Country	ICU beds per 100,000 people	Per Capita Healthcare Cost**	Life Expectancy at Birth
United States	20.0–31.7	$7,164	79
Canada	13.5	$3,867	81
Denmark	6.7–8.9	$3,814	79
Australia	8.0–8.9	$3,365	82
South Africa	8.9	$843	54
Sweden	5.8–8.7	$3,622	81
Spain	8.2–9.7	$2,941	82
Japan	7.9	$2,817	83
UK	3.5–7.4	$3,222	80
New Zealand	4.8–5.5	$2,655	81
China	2.8–4.6	$265	74
Trinidad & Tobago	2.1	$1,237	70
Sri Lanka	1.6	$187	71
Zambia	--	$80	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I would be interested to see the data for Germany and South Korea, since they have been far and away the most successful countries at handling the virus.

That's 10-15 ICU beds per hospital, given the amount of those types of facilities in the US.

 

[KINGS17]

Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are now being given to thousands of patients in New York. I guess we will see if they have any effect.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ment-its-now-being-tested-thousands-new-york/

Let's hope this works. New York City needs to see people who are infected get better quickly to relieve the stress on some of their hospitals.

 

[HeadInjury]

I would be interested to see the data for Germany and South Korea, since they have been far and away the most successful countries at handling the virus.

Germany's deaths the last 5 days: 29, 36, 47, 61 and 75 today.

 

[BringTheReign]

Must be estimates. One of the reasons our costs are higher is that better care costs more.

While it's not necessarily "worse care for a higher cost" as clickbait articles like to claim fairly often, there is not a strong correlation between our higher costs and better care when compared to other high-income countries' healthcare systems. We tend to have much shorter wait times and better care in certain specialties, but we also have more people unable to access healthcare at all.

Recent Harvard/London School of Econ study: Health Care Spending in the United States and Other High-Income Countries

Great summary of above study: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...aceuticals-administrative-costs-health-costs/

Belief: The quality of healthcare is much lower in the U.S. than in other countries.
Evidence: Overall, quality of care in the U.S. isn’t markedly different from that of other countries, and in fact excels in many areas. For example, the U.S. appears to have the best outcomes for those who have heart attacks or strokes, but is below average for avoidable hospitalizations for patients with diabetes and asthma.

What does explain higher spending in the U.S. is administrative complexity and high prices across a wide range of healthcare services. For example, the findings showed that:

• Administrative costs of care—activities related to planning, regulating, and managing health systems and services—accounted for 8% of total healthcare costs, compared with a range of 1%-3% for other countries.
• Per capita spending for pharmaceuticals was $1,443 in the U.S., compared with a range of $466 to $939 in other nations. For several commonly used brand-name pharmaceuticals, the U.S. had substantially higher prices than other countries, often double the next highest price.
• The average salary for a general practice physician in the U.S. was $218,173, while in other countries the salary range was $86,607-$154,126.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

While it's not necessarily "worse care for a higher cost" as clickbait articles like to claim fairly often, there is not a strong correlation between our higher costs and better care when compared to other high-income countries' healthcare systems. We tend to have much shorter wait times and better care in certain specialties, but we also have more people unable to access healthcare at all.

Recent Harvard/London School of Econ study: Health Care Spending in the United States and Other High-Income Countries

Great summary of above study: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...aceuticals-administrative-costs-health-costs/

Local example of bad access to timely care:

Los Angeles County said a 17-year-old was the youngest US victim of COVID-19. Then it backtracked on the diagnosis.

 

[KingLB]

Germany's deaths the last 5 days: 29, 36, 47, 61 and 75 today.

Bingo,

Outside South Korea, its hard to get a feel for death rates of more recently hit countries. As you don't get it, and die the next day, its days if not weeks later. It like other virus' take time. So if you see a 5 day lag time in spread, I would expect a similar 5-10 day lag time in deaths, as the virus "works its way through individuals systems" and as hospitals get more and more overwhelmed.

 

[HeadInjury]

I noticed that total recovered cases exceeds total deaths in the US now. We should start seeing a rapid rise in recovered cases in the coming weeks.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Glad you made it home safely with no COVID-19 issues on your cruise.

I'm not trying to be a drama queen but I'm pretty certain I got the virus. My fiance was sick the second to last day of the cruise and was better after a full day of sleep. Meanwhile, I got wasted while she was sleeping and woke up the next day with a cold that wouldn't go away. The customs person asked us zero questions btw.

Then I ended up a week later with chills/aches but no fever. I checked my temperture 3 times a day when we got back. Then it culminated in a day with no appetite and drinking tons of water. Finished with a projectile vomit of water and sunflower seeds (of all things). Felt like a million bucks after that! Long story long, I'm pretty sure I got the virus because a lady we met on the boat text my fiance when we got back and said she had tested postive.

I'm fine now and my paranoia about this whole thing is how irresponsible people are. I just left the house for the 5th time in three weeks yesterday. I had to plead with my fiance not to visit her mom who is not in good health and is a smoker a few days after we returned. One of the worst arguments we've ever had and a few days later she realized why I was being so neurotic.

tl;dr wild times!

 

[The Tikkanen]

I just spent 2 days in ICU at UCI, it wasn't crazy at all, there was a man down the hall from me who kept yelling "Help Me, Im in Pain" for about 2 hours straight. If I could have gotten out of my bed I would have walked down there and kicked the crap out of the guy. It's ICU you dumb a hole, everybody in there is in pain. None of the nurses wore masks, they said if they did they would get in trouble.

 

[KINGS17]

I just spent 2 days in ICU at UCI, it wasn't crazy at all, there was a man down the hall from me who kept yelling "Help Me, Im in Pain" for about 2 hours straight. If I could have gotten out of my bed I would have walked down there and kicked the crap out of the guy. It's ICU you dumb a hole, everybody in there is in pain. None of the nurses wore masks, they said if they did they would get in trouble.

I don't understand the "no mask" thing for nurses at all. They are the people we need to prioritize to stay healthy.

 

[KINGS17]

Paper on CONVALESCENT PLASMA -- Anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19 should be urged to donate blood plasma. Your blood plasma contains the antibodies which kills the COVID-19 virus and may save someone's life.

Treatment of Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 With Convalescent Plasma

All 5 patients (age range, 36-65 years; 2 women) were receiving mechanical ventilation at the time of treatment and all had received antiviral agents and methylprednisolone. Following plasma transfusion, body temperature normalized within 3 days in 4 of 5 patients, the SOFA score decreased, and Pao2/Fio2 increased within 12 days (range, 172-276 before and 284-366 after). Viral loads also decreased and became negative within 12 days after the transfusion, and SARS-CoV-2–specific ELISA and neutralizing antibody titers increased following the transfusion (range, 40-60 before and 80-320 on day 7). ARDS resolved in 4 patients at 12 days after transfusion, and 3 patients were weaned from mechanical ventilation within 2 weeks of treatment. Of the 5 patients, 3 have been discharged from the hospital (length of stay: 53, 51, and 55 days), and 2 are in stable condition at 37 days after transfusion.

 

[KINGS17]

Double post

 

[Maynard]

I'm not trying to be a drama queen but I'm pretty certain I got the virus. My fiance was sick the second to last day of the cruise and was better after a full day of sleep. Meanwhile, I got wasted while she was sleeping and woke up the next day with a cold that wouldn't go away. The customs person asked us zero questions btw.

Then I ended up a week later with chills/aches but no fever. I checked my temperture 3 times a day when we got back. Then it culminated in a day with no appetite and drinking tons of water. Finished with a projectile vomit of water and sunflower seeds (of all things). Felt like a million bucks after that! Long story long, I'm pretty sure I got the virus because a lady we met on the boat text my fiance when we got back and said she had tested postive.

I'm fine now and my paranoia about this whole thing is how irresponsible people are. I just left the house for the 5th time in three weeks yesterday. I had to plead with my fiance not to visit her mom who is not in good health and is a smoker a few days after we returned. One of the worst arguments we've ever had and a few days later she realized why I was being so neurotic.

tl;dr wild times!

Not trying to be a jerk but we need to ban this guy for 14-20 days.