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How much faith do you have in the core 4?

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How much faith do you have in the Core 4 (Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner)?

  • Have faith in core 4 stick with them

    Votes: 41 16.5%

  • Trade Marner; build around other 3

    Votes: 130 52.4%

  • Trade Tavares; build around other 3

    Votes: 13 5.2%

  • Trade Nylander; build around other 3

    Votes: 3 1.2%

  • Trade Matthews; build around other 3

    Votes: 5 2.0%

  • Trade whoever and do a proper rebuild with new management

    Votes: 47 19.0%

  • Other (provide your option in the thread)

    Votes: 9 3.6%
  • Total voters
    248
Trapper said:
We talked about this before. People think we are attacking the individual skilled player.
We aren’t.
It’s about what’s on the plate for dinner.
It’s like Pizza with ice cream on top and dipping it in mustard. These things are good but belong with other meals.

And that’s not even getting into the fact that half the cap on top of that just devastates the type of support you need to win 4 rounds of playoffs.
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You’d have to define ‘we’ because ‘attacking the individual skilled player’ is exactly what many are doing.
 
rumman said:
Holding players accountable isn’t necessarily “attacking” them imo. Besides, the real problem is the President and GM, they created this mess.
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Reasonable opinions is never an issue. The childish name calling is more attacking
 
makbeer said:
accurate.

Tavares is a 11m “good but not elite” second line centre who will be a 2nd line or 3rd line winger (given his speed) by the time the contract ends
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Tavares was 12th in PPG among fulltime centers this year. 12th over the last 2yrs, too. All with good underlying two-way numbers against top competition.

So he's an above average borderline top-10 1st line center.
 
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rumman said:
Not confident they don’t carry on with this mad experiment, it’s sheer lunacy, but I think they’re that arrogant.
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what's the lunacy in carrying on with having one of the best rosters in the league again, exactly?
 
rumman said:
The problem with the Leafs is ownership gives a hall pass to management, and management gives hall passes to the players. No one is held accountable in the organization so there’s no incentive to put in the work.

When I think of how this team plays after watching other teams do what’s needed for playoff success it makes me want to puke. The core is made up of entitled cowards and I don’t think said players can let alone will put in the effort for playoff success.

It’s a real shame that they are wasting their obvious talents as time marches on………
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The signing of Simmonds at $900K is another example of ownership giving management a hall pass. If Simmonds regresses and he was lousy in the playoffs they bury the contract in the minors and do not impact there cap, which is ownership giving management a million dollars to just piss away if necessary. What other team gives management that kind of freedom?? Heads needed to roll the players ARE cowards and its a shit show.
 
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ANDI P IS CUTE said:
youre joking, right? their bottom 6 sucks, no back up goalie and need another solid d who hits. 90% of the forwards are soft and scared and no show in the playoffs- btw they havent won a round since 2003-04 lol.
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no joke. one of the best rosters in the league. and that includes a bottom 6 which performed well in both the regular seasona and playoffs.
 
The roster was deep this year. We just got very unlucky (like usual) in the playoffs. If we had a healthy Tavares and Muzzin, I honestly think it would have been a different outcome.

Regardless, we lost and due to the cap that deep roster is about to fall apart. Matthews and Tavares aren’t going anywhere and you’d be stupid to move Nylander given his contract which leaves trading Marner. If you can replace Marner and his cap with two players instead, that would help solve some issues and provide us with a little more depth.
 
TMLAM34 said:
The roster was deep this year. We just got very unlucky (like usual) in the playoffs. If we had a healthy Tavares and Muzzin, I honestly think it would have been a different outcome.
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not just bad luck. Matthews and Marner clearly did choke, again. Need them to produce.

I'd bet on them producing in the playoffs going forward, though.
 
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zeke said:
no joke. one of the best rosters in the league. and that includes a bottom 6 which performed well in both the regular seasona and playoffs.
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I dont think many are arguing that on paper the leafs have a very good roster. The issue is the game is decided on ice not on paper and the leafs very good roster seems to fall flat in the playoffs.
 
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usernamezrhardtodo said:
I think that Dubas's Leafs will go down as a warning to other GM's who even contemplate over paying their young guys before any real successes. I really doubt you will ever see a situation like ours in the future. Teams with "traditional" GM's didn't fall for the lunacy Dubas did and they didn't even have a ton of proof it wouldn't work...they just know you can't do what Dubas is doing and win. We proved it to everyone and it will be the excuse that other GM's will use when they have a few good young players asking to get paid.

They will point to the Dubas Leafs and say "not a chance". We helped prove to the rest of the league what they already knew in theory. We should get a prize for that at least.
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No other GM overpaid for their RFAs

Aho, Rantanen, Point, Barzal, Eichel (he gave up term), etc...

Dubas stands alone in his incompetence!
 
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Lumberg said:
3 years in a row isn't enough to convince you that maybe they won't? And you're gambling on them yet again wasting another year
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i'll gamble on their super elite talent, and not give up on them at age 23.

trading the most talented duo in franchise history away at age 23 would be the leafiest leaf move to ever leaf.
 
zeke said:
what's the lunacy in carrying on with having one of the best rosters in the league again, exactly?
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Half the cap dedicated to 4 players.

upload_2021-7-12_11-3-11.jpg
 
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Lumberg said:
Have you watched the playoffs at all the last 5 years?
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yep. watched plenty of good teams choke. many spectacularly getting swept or close to it. watched plenty of poopy teams win some series, too. saw the leafs get barely eked out in every series they've been in.
 
zeke said:
i'll gamble on their super elite talent, and not give up on them at age 23.

trading the most talented duo in franchise history away at age 23 would be the leafiest leaf move to ever leaf.
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No to stand pat and continue to lose would be. It would be different if they actually showed some fight in the biggest games of the year. They roll over - every time.
 
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zeke said:
Tavares was 12th in PPG among fulltime centers this year. 12th over the last 2yrs, too. All with good underlying two-way numbers against top competition.

So he's an above average borderline top-10 1st line center.
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The bullshit/60 is off the charts on this one there bud
 
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Lumberg said:
No to stand pat and continue to lose would be. It would be different if they actually showed some fight in the biggest games of the year. They roll over - every time.
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I don't call taking every series to the limit every year "falling flat". It's dissappointing and not good enough, sure, but that's not falling flat.
 
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