How much faith do you have in the core 4?

[Menzinger]

The market decides.

Has anyone been traded with a 11 AAV deal ?

Without knowing the player, i'd say an 11 AAV deal would be 2 AAV retained minimum.

A better question to ask is if a player in the past has been traded who held the equivalent caphit % of an 11mil contract in 2021. I suspect the answer to that is "yes" but don't have it in front of me.

Edit: I was correct. In fact there have been players traded who had greater cap hit %'s than Tavares' current deal
Biggest contract AAVs traded in NHL's salary cap era - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree and disagree. 3 years for a 23 year old and 3 years for a 30 year old is different. Ones a rookie and the other is in his prime.

Would I like to see him perform better in the playoffs? Undoubtedly. But I don’t think writing him off is a good option at all.

Who's the rookie in this scenario? Marner has 5 full seasons under his belt.

Patrick Kane was 21 when he won the cup in his 3rd season. How about Caufield who with 10 games of NHL experience at the age of 20 produced in these playoffs at about the same rate as Marner. He did so getting about 5 minutes less ice time per game and he didn't have a generational goal scorer on his wing either, instead he was on a team that had trouble scoring goals in general. Is there some point at which people stop using the age excuse for the lack of playoff production from our 11 million dollar wonder boy? Funny how nobody seems to want to answer this question, I'm pretty sure that's because it's so obvious that the time for that is long gone and there are a ton of players who have excelled in the playoffs by the age of 23.

Why do people keep saying things like we shouldn't "write him off", it makes it sound like we want to throw him in the junkyard heap or something. I don't want to write him off, I want to trade him getting a ton back in return and becoming a better team in the process.

While that was true on paper and based on reg season play, Matthews and Marner looked horrible, especially when it mattered most. Matthews was the 64th ranked center at the end of the first round in ppg. If you had just average 2nd line center production from him I bet they get through to the conference finals. You cant possibly win a trade so it's probably smartest to run it back. Players DO evolve in playoff production over time. Yzerman being the most brought up example. These guys are talented enough, it just comes down to effort. If either of them cared as much as Spezza does they could produce like Point or Kucherov does.

Sucks but you have to run it back. It's still a great unit both on paper and during the reg season.

People keep saying that. I've repeatedly called BS on this false claim and not one person has explained why this is true, would you care to try?

 

[Metroid]

Faith+1

 

[Racer88]

I agree and disagree. 3 years for a 23 year old and 3 years for a 30 year old is different. Ones a rookie and the other is in his prime.

Would I like to see him perform better in the playoffs? Undoubtedly. But I don’t think writing him off is a good option at all.

If he hasn’t been able to perform for the last 3 years in the playoffs he shouldn’t have demanded the big money.

 

[deprw]

when has JT been a gritty playoff performer ?

just because a players every stride is a struggle doesn't mean their working harder than other players

So because he worked so hard Boston, Calgary and Carolina wanted to get rid of him?

His soft for his size and is not working harder. Easy pass for me. He isn't Pietrangelo. Only big name UFA defender last few years to sign as free agent for Big money.

 

[rumman]

A better question to ask is if a player in the past has been traded who held the equivalent caphit % of an 11mil contract in 2021. I suspect the answer to that is "yes" but don't have it in front of me.

Edit: I was correct. In fact there have been players traded who had greater cap hit %'s than Tavares' current deal
Biggest contract AAVs traded in NHL's salary cap era - Sportsnet.ca

Phil shouldn’t be on the list since he’s still on the Leafs payroll?

 

[deprw]

Too funny, your position is there are no better GM candidates than wonder boy? I think the air in that bubble needs more oxygen?

Did I say there isn't? I assume you think there is plenty, so who, why and how we acquire him?

You seem to have way with words but are you just basic troll or is there air in your bubble answering that question?

I'm open for change if there is suitable candidate. People here seem to hate idea of new rookie GM. So who is our New recent loser? Chayka or Chiarelli? Someone else.

Off course you can Dubas, but for who. Not for anyone else, there was once reason that organizations seem to think him as future GM.

Would I blow this team from front office downwards this summer. Nope. I want to see one more normal year with this team without bubbles and covids.

 

[hotpaws]

So because he worked so hard Boston, Calgary and Carolina wanted to get rid of him?

His soft for his size and is not working harder. Easy pass for me. He isn't Pietrangelo. Only big name UFA defender last few years to sign as free agent for Big money.

i never said he's Petro so i have no idea why you even brought him up

and i'll repeat , i'd rather have Hamilton and the cap saving than JT who's had exactly 1 good playoff series in his 12 year career

 

[geebster]

Who's the rookie in this scenario? Marner has 5 full seasons under his belt.

Patrick Kane was 21 when he won the cup in his 3rd season. How about Caufield who with 10 games of NHL experience at the age of 20 produced in these playoffs at about the same rate as Marner. He did so getting about 5 minutes less ice time per game and he didn't have a generational goal scorer on his wing either, instead he was on a team that had trouble scoring goals in general. Is there some point at which people stop using the age excuse for the lack of playoff production from our 11 million dollar wonder boy? Funny how nobody seems to want to answer this question, I'm pretty sure that's because it's so obvious that the time for that is long gone and there are a ton of players who have excelled in the playoffs by the age of 23.

Why do people keep saying things like we shouldn't "write him off", it makes it sound like we want to throw him in the junkyard heap or something. I don't want to write him off, I want to trade him getting a ton back in return and becoming a better team in the process.



People keep saying that. I've repeatedly called BS on this false claim and not one person has explained why this is true, would you care to try?

Not sure where the confusion is. You absolutely could get even value trading Nylander etc but trading Marner you wont. Simple reason: he is overpaid for what he produces and what position he plays. Henisnt a center and he doesnt drive play to be worth what he makes. You certainly could get an equivalent player in a trade but youd have to retain salary to do it.

 

[deprw]

i never said he's Petro so i have no idea why you even brought him up

and i'll repeat , i'd rather have Hamilton and the cap saving than JT who's had exactly 1 good playoff series in his 12 year career

Hamiltons game isn't that suitable for playoffs and he haven't on been on fire earlier.

I'd rather shit on Tavares for some other player than Dougie Hamilton. Easier to lure on UFAs in the future when you don't ran away first Tavares for lesser player in Hamilton. Since were going to hate him after first season and want to run him out of town after two seasons.

Hamilton isn't the defender that fixes our defense. There is no guarantee that he would even come here, even if we free cap space for him.

I mentioned Petro because he is the defender you want and now see in Hamilton. Hamilton is glorified Rielly but worse dman than Rielly.

 

[Mugzy97]

Who's the rookie in this scenario? Marner has 5 full seasons under his belt.

sorry I shouldn’t have said rookie, I meant a player who isn’t even in their prime yet. I’m half in the bag now but always respect your opinion on here!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not sure where the confusion is. You absolutely could get even value trading Nylander etc but trading Marner you wont. Simple reason: he is overpaid for what he produces and what position he plays. Henisnt a center and he doesnt drive play to be worth what he makes. You certainly could get an equivalent player in a trade but youd have to retain salary to do it.

I agree he's overpaid, so what? He's not as valuable as he would be at a lower cap hit which makes the return lower but it also makes the impact of losing him lower, which means we'd need to get less back to win the trade than we otherwise would. So what's the problem?

Not only that, this might even make it easier to improve the team by trading him. Because he's been paid so much in advance, he's good value to a team who cares about real dollars more than they care about cap space. We could for example get equal value in talent, lose the trade in terms of real dollars but win the trade in terms of cap space. Sounds like a win/win scenario to me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

sorry I shouldn’t have said rookie, I meant a player who isn’t even in their prime yet. I’m half in the bag now but always respect your opinion on here!

Haha, I was wondering as I know you're smarter than that. Enjoy your evening!

 

[justashadowof]

IMO, if the Leafs win the Cup in the next 10 years, probably none of the 4 will be active participants in it. The roster will be turned over that radically for serious contention. Some of them may be on Cup winners in their careers elsewhere. None of them really want to win. They are content with winning their contract negotiations and being strong regular season performers.

 

[koyvoo]

I just want concrete answers from those who seemingly want to give our two gutless coward fakers endless chances.

Ok, it’s not time to give on them yet. Fine. Give me a timeline though. If 5 postseasons of these two spineless Nancy’s largely failing to play to their standards and abilities isn’t enough to give up on them, how many are then? 3 more post seasons of the same? 5 more? Just tell me how many you need to see before you’d be ready to move on.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Would I blow this team from front office downwards this summer. Nope. I want to see one more normal year with this team without bubbles and covids.

Here’s the problem with waiting one more season on Dubas.

Let’s suppose that the Leafs wait and once again they either fail to make the playoffs, or they exit again in the first round.

At that point the Leafs pull the plug on Dubas and he gets replaced by a new GM.

Common sense would dictate that the new GM will most likely want some time to assess the team before making major changes. Let’s say the new GM uses their first season to make this assessment.

The problem is that at that point, Matthews is in his contract year which at the end of he’s a UFA.

So a new GM will be trying to sign Matthews to an extension precisely at the time the team is in transition with potentially a new coach, new systems along with a bunch of roster changes. If he doesn’t sign before the trade deadline, what do you do?

Trade him for assets?

Keep him as their own rent a player and go for it?

I think the Leafs are probably in an uphill battle to resign Matthews regardless, as I think he probably wants to return home to the U.S. and play closer to home. That’s obviously speculation on my part.

But you can see the problem with waiting one more year on Dubas is that if history repeats itself, Matthews will have one more season left before you have to consider moving him.

I would suggest the Leafs need to be in a win now mode with this group as I think the Matthews era at best has three years left to go and probably just two.

 

[kb]

How much faith do you have in the core 4?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

They are content with winning their contract negotiations

Anyone can take it to Dubas.

 

[PromisedLand]

The market decides.

Has anyone been traded with a 11 AAV deal ?

Without knowing the player, i'd say an 11 AAV deal would be 2 AAV retained minimum.

If Gretzky was traded anybody can be traded IMO. The problem is as you said; who would want marner at 11 AAV nobody values marner that high. That said, after his bonus is paid it might be easier on the wallet for a team who is not a cash cow.

BUT...

I would prefer a new and competent GM who replaces dubas making that deal. I have ZERO faith in Shanahan+Dubas+Keefe. Three stooges have ruined what seemed like a very promising Leafs future after a very long time

 

[makbeer]

I have faith in Auston and Willy.

I have no faith in JT and Mitch.

I have even less faith in Dubas and Keefe.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just want concrete answers from those who seemingly want to give our two gutless coward fakers endless chances.

Ok, it’s not time to give on them yet. Fine. Give me a timeline though. If 5 postseasons of these two spineless Nancy’s largely failing to play to their standards and abilities isn’t enough to give up on them, how many are then? 3 more post seasons of the same? 5 more? Just tell me how many you need to see before you’d be ready to move on.

3 more years, yikes! 5 more years, just shoot me now.

Seriously, the most I can possibly see anyone saying is OK one more year, never know though. Seems like another question that nobody wants to answer.

 

[The CyNick]

Of the players, Matthews is the one I have the least faith in.

 

[rumman]

Of the players, Matthews is the one I have the least faith in.

Highest trade value too, if we had a competent GM I’d be listening to overpayment offers?

 

[kb]

I'm going to guarantee that the offers Dubas is seeing right now is 25 cents on the dollar. Why? Because they know the Leafs have to do.....something. Can't go on with insanity.

Sit tight and wait. He's in no rush.

 

[rumman]

I'm going to guarantee that the offers Dubas is seeing right now is 25 cents on the dollar. Why? Because they know the Leafs have to do.....something. Can't go on with insanity.

Sit tight and wait. He's in no rush.

Not confident they don’t carry on with this mad experiment, it’s sheer lunacy, but I think they’re that arrogant.