Salary Cap: How much AAV are you willing to give Tyson Barrie on a 7-8 year extension?

[Twowingcantfly]

Barrie's value seems to have sky rocketed as soon as the Leafs traded for him , lol

this guys a good not elite offensive D-man who's weak in his own end and people want to give him 7-8m plus for 7-8 yrs starting at 29?

i don't see how he's worth anything over 6ish per and why would we even want him into his mid 30's at a big cap hit

Totally agree. Most here have obviously not had the opportunity to watch Barrie play a lot. Would Jake Gardiner have gotten that here? Barrie is basically the same type of player, with a couple more brain farts than Jake boy had while he played here. I would have rather lived with Jake than pay a similar player.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The cap goes up? Jesus so that 11.6M×5 contract with a full NMC in the last year, lockout protected bonus laden deal is acceptable now is It? If I had of brought that in here before he was signed people would have fallen over laughing at how bad it was

It makes Eichel's deal look like an absolute steal your welcome Buffalo we just made you look competent

Don't spout that valuing winning over money bull****, anybody who's watched our higher end RFA'S and can even remotely spout something like that with a straight face beggars belief

Hey Barrie, our other high profile players over the last couple of years told us to **** off when we asked them to help the team out but how about It? Sounds like a plan alright

Matthews got paid significantly more than Eichel because he is a significantly better player. He doesn't just outproduce him, he does it in significantly less of an offensive opportunity, while being a stronger playdriver.

Are you seriously complaining about NMCs and lockout protected bonuses for our franchise player?

Totally agree. Most here have obviously not had the opportunity to watch Barrie play a lot. Would Jake Gardiner have gotten that here? Barrie is basically the same type of player, with a couple more brain farts than Jake boy had while he played here. I would have rather lived with Jake than pay a similar player.

This is ironic. Barrie and Gardiner are not similar players. Gardiner is a puck mover, Barrie is a puck rusher. One creates offense through long range passing while the other does it by jumping up and actively participating in the play. One tilts play in terms of opportunities, while the other's strength is converting those opportunities directly. Barrie plays an active defense while Gardiner's defense is preemptive, reactive.

 

[Kiwi]

Matthews got paid significantly more than Eichel because he is a significantly better player. He doesn't just outproduce him, he does it in significantly less of an offensive opportunity, while being a stronger playdriver.

Are you seriously complaining about NMCs and lockout protected bonuses for our franchise player?


This is ironic. Barrie and Gardiner are not similar players. Gardiner is a puck mover, Barrie is a puck rusher. One creates offense through long range passing while the other does it by jumping up and actively participating in the play. One tilts play in terms of opportunities, while the other's strength is converting those opportunities directly. Barrie plays an active defense while Gardiner's defense is preemptive, reactive.

No I'm asking why the **** Matthews got absolutely everything he could have possibly wanted

Term, AAV, full NMC as soon as possible, Bonus laden, lockout protection
In the last year of his contract if he pulls a Tavares we can't even trade him, unbelievable

Honest question, did we even negotiate or just hand him a sheet of paper and tell him to right a wish list?

Eichel isn't as good as Matthews, Eichel's contract looks like a dream in comparison to the abortion Matthews signed, i hated the Eichel contract when he signed for Buffalo but guess what? He looks like a bargain in comparison now though

 

[Nithoniniel]

No I'm asking why the **** Matthews got absolutely everything he could have possibly wanted

Term, AAV, full NMC as soon as possible, Bonus laden, lockout protection

Honest question, did we even negotiate or just hand him a sheet of paper and tell him to right a wish list?

Jesus, I just realized were Santa Claus

Because franchise players normally do? There's maybe one franchise in this league that would cheap out on giving their franchise player contract perks like that. And I don't think we should strive to be Ottawa.

So we're back to the base value of the contracts. If you get the youngster with the second best impact per minute on his ELC since Crosby, you're going to pay for the privilege. Did we pay a bit too much? Depends. If you solely go by common market mechanics and look primarily at raw numbers, he's 500K-1M overpaid. We avoided a possibly crippling situation this offseason, in large part because Matthews ignored the chance to squeeze us for more. Because he most definitely could have.

Now take into account that:
1) We shouldn't actually want to negotiate contracts based on more inaccurate measures than needed. It might have helped with Matthews, it would hurt literally everywhere else.
2) This is our franchise player we are talking about. There's literally not a player it matters less if we overpay.
3) Star players are overall significantly underpaid. Look at models that look at on-ice impact per cap dollar. It's all star players, all the way from Marchand to, yes, Matthews.

I honestly don't understand how this causes people to freak out to this point.

 

[Fogelhund]

And 6.5-7 is my number.... If Barrie won't sign for that amount, you will re-sign Muzzin, Ceci and have Liljegren and Sandin knocking on the doorstep. Plus we have Rielly coming up whom we'll have to pay 10+.

No need to overpay Barrie. If our management staff sign him for 8, I could live with it... but I wouldn't give him a penny more than 7 on a 7-8 year deal. Too much risk.

P.S. 9-9.5 is wayy too high, too.

because Muzzin and Ceci will sign for free?

 

[Dale Gribble]

I don't think Barrie is worth much more than his current deal ($6 million at best IMO), and as such I don't see the Leafs re-signing him. Not worth $8 million, and the Leafs don't have the cap room.

 

[ottomaddox]

How in the world do we fit Barrie with salary cap and all?

Move 2 or 3 players I suppose and then pay him his 6.5 million per season.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Let's be real here, Tyson Barrie is going to be looking for a 7 year deal after this season with a new team, or a 7-8 year extension with us. He'll be 29 at the end of the season and will want a big payday to maximize career earnings as he was on a very team friendly contract with Colorado. People thinking he'll sign a 3-5 year deal with less AAV are fooling themselves.

How much would you be willing to give Barrie on a 7-8 year deal before you say "Ah screw it, he can leave"?

I personally think $8 million is as high as we can afford to go with Matthews, Tavares and Marner likely going to be making $10+ million each, and with Rielly and Andersen our next key contract re-signings in the future. IMO, Barrie is probably a rental this year and will be a goner July 1st unless we trade someone.

I opted for $8M - $8.5M but 8 is my number. I wouldn't quibble over a touch more if need be.
My understanding is somethingn like 8 gets it done. And I expect it will be.

 

[MyBudJT]

because Muzzin and Ceci will sign for free?

 

[613Leafer]

Barrie definitely isn't a #1. He has fairly big holes in his game defensively, and is essentially a better version of Shattenkirk after he was coming out of St. Louis.

7-8 years is too risky for him. There's a good chance that by age ~32-33, his offence will have declined, and once that's gone, he's not bringing a ton of value.

At that term, caphit would have to be on the lower end for me to even consider it. Something like 8 X 8M IMO would become a huge anchor halfway through.

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

time to trade nylander to fit in some high end defense

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol, what this thread has made clear is people have absolutely no idea how Barrie plays or how good he is.

"Gardiner 2.0" "we can't afford him" "6.5m or bust"

I wish people would do a little research before making outrageously stupid comments.

 

[MyBudJT]

Lol, what this thread has made clear is people have absolutely no idea how Barrie plays or how good he is.

"Gardiner 2.0" "we can't afford him" "6.5m or bust"

I wish people would do a little research before making outrageously stupid comments.

LOL,

Yeah, because Colorado traded a top end elite defensmen for our 3rd line center... just because... Not only that, they included another 3rd line center in the package!

The hyping of Barrie is getting to be too much. He's good... anyone that is worth in the 6.5-7M range is a good asset.... but he's not a top-end elite #1 defensman.

For reference, an 8M salary would put him tied for 5th in the entire NHL among defensmen.

In reality, he should get the Ryan Ellis contract + inflation:

Assuming an 84 mil cap, that would but him in the 8 x 6.6 M range. That would put Barrie in the top 20 paid NHL defensmen.

 

[gabeliscious]

if leafs only gave matthews and nylander a 5 year deal it might help with extending barrie with regards to terms. the problem is they go both got 7-8 year money for 5 year terms. hopefully that plays out different with barrie.

i think if the leafs could get him for 6 years $7.5 million it would be pretty fair. he probably has 2-3 years or really high production before starting to taper off.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I really don't understand how anyone thinks they can answer this question without seeing how he plays and fits in on this team first.

 

[ACC1224]

Unlike many others, I haven't seen him play nearly enough to judge.
Always amazes me how so many have such first hand knowledge of the 800 plus players players in the league(plus prospects, undrafted players, etc.)

 

[MyBudJT]

I just had a thought... a potential lockout could help us sign Barrie to a cheaper deal. When would a lockout occur? July 1st? October 1st?

If come June it is clear that a lockout may happen, we could use that as a bargaining chip, no? Sign him to a max bonus, and front loaded deal so that he wouldn't be out any money.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah, because Colorado traded a top end elite defensmen for our 3rd line center... just because... Not only that, they included another 3rd line center in the package!

Colorado is desperate for a 2nd line center, which they believe Kadri to be (and he was a low-end 1C to high-end 2C up until last year). Kadri is signed for 3 more years at an amazing cap hit for that role. They could not afford Barrie after this year, and they didn't need him with their current crop of high-end defensive prospects that they just added to at the draft.

Kerfoot did not work as a 2C for them, which is what Colorado needed him to be, but he can be a good 3C for us. This is called a hockey trade, where both sides get what they need.

but he's not a top-end elite #1 defensman.

He is a legitimate top-pairing defenseman.

He puts up elite production. He puts up elite underlying metrics. He led all Colorado players in TOI in the playoffs, and was 5 minutes higher per game than any other D.

To think that his impact is equal to Gardiner, especially Gardiner of last year, is straight up delusional.

For reference, an 8M salary would put him tied for 5th in the entire NHL among defensmen.

Cap hit rankings are entirely meaningless.

In reality, he should get the Ryan Ellis contract + inflation:

There is no comparison to be made between Barrie and Ellis, even aside from the fact that one is in a no-tax state. They are very different types of players, and Barrie has produced and earned a lot more.

 

[MyBudJT]

Colorado is desperate for a 2nd line center, which they believe Kadri to be (and he was a low-end 1C to high-end 2C up until last year). Kadri is signed for 3 more years at an amazing cap hit for that role. They could not afford Barrie after this year, and they didn't need him with their current crop of high-end defensive prospects that they just added to at the draft.

Kerfoot did not work as a 2C for them, which is what Colorado needed him to be, but he can be a good 3C for us. This is called a hockey trade, where both sides get what they need.


He is a legitimate top-pairing defenseman.

He puts up elite production. He puts up elite underlying metrics. He led all Colorado players in TOI in the playoffs, and was 5 minutes higher per game than any other D.

To think that his impact is equal to Gardiner, especially Gardiner of last year, is straight up delusional.


Cap hit rankings are entirely meaningless.


There is no comparison to be made between Barrie and Ellis, even aside from the fact that one is in a no-tax state. They are very different types of players, and Barrie has produced and earned a lot more.

And the hyping continues. I don't know how you can call someone a legitimate top pairing defensmen, when he can't be trusted with consitent defensive-zone starts.

Barrie was extremely sheltered in Colorado.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't know how you can call someone a legitimate top pairing defensmen, when he can't be trusted with consitent defensive-zone starts.

Barrie was extremely sheltered in Colorado.

No he wasn't. You can't say somebody was sheltered when they played the most minutes on the team and 25% more ice time than the next closest D in the playoffs.

Barrie was used to his strengths in Colorado, which involved putting an extremely offensively gifted D in prime opportunities to score, especially since they had nobody else to fill that role. That doesn't instantly mean he is useless defensively like some seem to think.

Barrie is a legitimate top-pairing defenseman and is a huge upgrade in an area of weakness for Toronto.

 

[TheProspector]

Not really sure why we're comparing Gardiner to Barrie. Barrie is more an offensive d-man, and Gardiner is more of a defensive puck-mover. Jake is muuuuch better in the defensive zone, and Barrie is like another talented forward in the offensive zone.

I understand how we got here, but this team probably doesn't get better swapping Gardiner for Barrie, and if we couldn't pay Gardiner, we definitely can't afford Barrie. He's going to set career numbers this year that he'll likely never hit again. Getting traded to the Leafs for his biggest contract year is the biggest stroke of luck he could have possibly imagined.

 

[MyBudJT]

No he wasn't. You can't say somebody was sheltered when they played the most minutes on the team and 25% more ice time than the next closest D in the playoffs.

Barrie was used to his strengths in Colorado, which involved putting an extremely offensively gifted D in prime opportunities to score, especially since they had nobody else to fill that role. That doesn't instantly mean he is useless defensively like some seem to think.

Barrie is a legitimate top-pairing defenseman and is a huge upgrade in an area of weakness for Toronto.

You're missing the point. When you start 2/3 of the time in the offensive zone, you are extremely sheltered.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're missing the point. When you start 2/3 of the time in the offensive zone, you are extremely sheltered.

That is not true. There is a lot more that goes into being "sheltered" than zone starts. And he will likely get more offensive zone starts here too, because teams utilize their player's strengths.

Everything points to Barrie being a top-pairing defensemen.

 

[TheProspector]

You're missing the point. When you start 2/3 of the time in the offensive zone, you are extremely sheltered.

Out of the 21 D-men who got any Norris votes at all, all but 7 had >50 ZSR. The top guys were at the top of ZSR. I think it's safe to say that almost all top D-men are sheltered -- put in a position to maximise team GF, while the coach puts out the guys he thinks will minimize GA.

The conclusion I make out of this is that you really can't hold being "sheltered" with high offensive zone against the player -- as true as the statement is. And Barrie is more sheltered than most.

 

[MyBudJT]

Out of the 21 D-men who got any Norris votes at all, all but 7 had >50 ZSR. The top guys were at the top of ZSR. I think it's safe to say that almost all top D-men are sheltered -- put in a position to maximise team GF, while the coach puts out the guys he thinks will minimize GA.

The conclusion I make out of this is that you really can't hold being "sheltered" with high offensive zone against the player -- as true as the statement is. And Barrie is more sheltered than most.

How many of those guys had more O Zone starts than Barrie?