How long before Shero feels the pressure? Fire Shero?

[NJDevs26]

Worse than an expansion team lol...only if you go by the template of Vegas as an 'expansion team' and not what an expansion team actually was for a hundred years before that.

 

[hidek91]

Worse than an expansion team lol...only if you go by the template of Vegas as an 'expansion team' and not what an expansion team actually was for a hundred years before that.

Vegas is the only expansion that happened in the last 15 years so I compared to that but aside of that the only players that had value higher than mid-round pick were Schneider, Henrique, Larsson, Severson and Greene. You could argue Zajac but IMO after 2014-15 season, when Shero took over, he'd clear the waivers (after 25p season).

This is the roster we've had then:
New Jersey Devils 2014-15 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

 

[Billdo]

Shero doesn't really need to "redeem" himself when it comes to Hall given what he gave up to get him.

This. At this point whatever we get as long as it turns into a NHL regular is basically equal to Larsson anyway

 

[NJDevs26]

I'm thinking the opposite.

I think judging by people's posts, most here will be shocked by how much Taylor Hall fetches, and those people will think Shero TOTALLY REDEEMED HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!

Not when most people think Hall's going to get some monster package and are setting themselves up for a letdown. The only people who will think Shero redeems himself are the ones who are convinced he'll get hurt before we can trade him or that Shero will go all in for a hopeless cause of a season and let him walk for nothing.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Who are these people that think we will get a huge haul for Hall?
It certainly isn’t me.

 

[Devils090]

It’s just surprising he didn’t learn from the whole Bylsma thing which ultimately cost him his job.

 

[Triumph]

Worse than an expansion team lol...only if you go by the template of Vegas as an 'expansion team' and not what an expansion team actually was for a hundred years before that.

The Devils were not worse than an expansion team, but it just isn't that far away, given what the team was worth in total assets when Shero took over. Larsson, Severson, Henrique, Schneider - these were the only 4 players on the team really worth anything at the time. Everybody else was probably worth a 2nd round pick or less, and the Devils had picked 29th, not at all, 30th in the most recent 1st rounds when Shero took over.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I'm waiting for the eventual "That's all we got for Hall?!" reaction from the people that are slagging him on the way out.

I doubt it. When he was going into his prime and had 4 years at $6 million per on his contract he was traded for Lars. According to reports Buffalo and NYI rejected deals for him. Now he has less than a season left on that contract, is coming off an injury that cost him two thirds of the previous year, and is producing like he did in his last 2 seasons in Edmonton and his first year here. Only unrealistic posters could think Hall has high value at this point.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

This works both ways. You can't on the one hand say Shero has accomplished something with the drafting and then on the other hand say it's too early to judge. What you're pointing out is that he's drafted some players that appear to have potential. Which I have acknowledged is an improvement from five years ago. But it's not the gigantic accomplishment that you and many others her tout it to be...for the reason I just stated. We won't know for sure that these drafts were a success for some time. As for the two "blue chip" prospects...like you said, any of the players chosen at the top of that class would have been blue chippers...we tanked our way to that spot, and then got lucky with the lottery ball to boot. The only "skill" you need to draft a good player in that spot is to lose a lot of games. I'll concede the Devils have been very good in that department for Ray's entire tenure so far!


Again, how can this be touted as some great accomplishment when the acquisition of these players has not resulted in a better product on the ice? You have to look big picture, not at individual trades. These are meaningless if the construction of the team makes no sense and/or the GM fails to address specific roster needs and as a result the team continues to lose. Which is basically exactly what has happened. I don't care that he "stole" Palmieri...that steal hasn't resulted in more wins so why exactly does Shero get a pat on the back? This way of looking at things is legitimately perplexing to me.


I literally said in my post that this is not about comparing, it's about judging Shero on his own merit. But you do what you gotta do to drive the narrative.

soooo its your opinion that unless a team wins consistently, there can't be good moves made or good players?

I guess guys like McDavid and Draisaitl suck in your world then?

weird take.

 

[The 29th Pick]

It’s just surprising he didn’t learn from the whole Bylsma thing which ultimately cost him his job.

This is what this thread is really about, our roster isn't a contender obviously, but we're better than a last place team. It's the losing culture thats the norm nowadays, from the players to the fans.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The Devils were not worse than an expansion team, but it just isn't that far away, given what the team was worth in total assets when Shero took over. Larsson, Severson, Henrique, Schneider - these were the only 4 players on the team really worth anything at the time. Everybody else was probably worth a 2nd round pick or less, and the Devils had picked 29th, not at all, 30th in the most recent 1st rounds when Shero took over.

Go take a look at all the extra high picks the Rangers have gotten during their rebuild. And they will probably get another one for Kreider in a few months

imagine if Shero had that luxury?

 

[worstfan]

Time to Henry Rollins it. BURN IT DOWN!

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I need to hear what should have been done to "address" the goalie situation this summer. Should he have acquired a guy like Domingue in July? OK, maybe. But what difference would that have made?

Schneider's contract is immovable. Plus he showed promise late last year.

 

[guitarguyvic]

soooo its your opinion that unless a team wins consistently, there can't be good moves made or good players?

I guess guys like McDavid and Draisaitl suck in your world then?

weird take.

Where do you get these nonsensical analogies? We are talking about the GM’s performance not the players. Do you think that GM who drafted them was doing a good job? Hint: he was fired.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Where do you get these nonsensical analogies? We are talking about the GM’s performance not the players. Do you think that GM who drafted them was doing a good job? Hint: he was fired.

Thank you for proving my point.

so its your opinion that Palmieri, Hall, Vatanen, etc. have not been good in NJ? I am so confused. You are all over the place. He acquired those players and those players have played well to very well as Devils.

 

[Triumph]

I need to hear what should have been done to "address" the goalie situation this summer. Should he have acquired a guy like Domingue in July? OK, maybe. But what difference would that have made?

Schneider's contract is immovable. Plus he showed promise late last year.

Acquiring Domingue in July isn't a solution - I argued this back in July and Domingue's a guy I've had my eye on as a potential 3rd goalie for the Devils. The trouble with trading for a 3rd goalie in July is that he can get snapped off waivers in September/October and now you've just traded for air. A team has to wait for a guy like that to pass through waivers to make a deal for them.

 

[Triumph]

Chiarelli was fired because every move he made apart from getting McDavid was awful. Signing Lucic, trading Eberle, trading Hall, signing Russell, signing Koskinen, I can go on. He was handed probably the most asset-rich team in the league and squandered many of the best parts.

 

[Classic Devil]

I think Shero has done a great job as GM in terms of asset management, but if he won’t fire Hynes he needs to go too.

 

[guitarguyvic]

so its your opinion that Palmieri, Hall, Vatanen, etc. have not been good in NJ? I am so confused. You are all over the place. He acquired those players and those players have played well to very well as Devils.

It’s not confusing. The team still sucks. Just because Ray managed to lose his way into a couple of top draft picks and fleece a few teams in trades does not automatically mean he’s done a good job. Just like Chiarelli didn’t do a good job in Edmonton just because he landed Draisaitl and McDavid.

It’s a simple question of whether the positives have outweighed the negatives. And they haven’t. Which is why we still suck.

I honestly don’t know what’s so complicated or confusing about it.

 

[NJDevs26]

so its your opinion that Palmieri, Hall, Vatanen, etc. have not been good in NJ? I am so confused. You are all over the place. He acquired those players and those players have played well to very well as Devils.

His point is anyone can have a handful of good moves, but there haven't been enough of them to have a good team.

 

[Camille the Eel]

We went from the "Summer of Shero" to "Fire Shero" on this Board in 6 weeks. Expectations were very high during training camp. I didn't see the way the team has played this season coming. I thought the imbalance of the roster was plain to see but I didn't think we'd be this bad. Yet the emphasis shouldn't be on firing the GM right now. The whole organization would rise in the air in an unsettled manner and nothing would be moved forward. We have a good organization in place on all levels, a farm system deeper in talent than it's been in some time, and much more raw and much younger talent in the NHL. Coaching is the immediate issue and managing our assets so as to balance out the team we ice, in size, personnel and by position. Throwing out Shero for not firing Hynes at this point - which is what sparked the immediate crisis - would not be productive for our longer term prospects towards being a cup contender.

That said I wish he'd move on Hynes now and get the direction of everything reoriented. We can all see right now what the issues are and how this all could be tweaked and that's a longer term process that involves constantly steering in a sure direction through many different actions.

 

[RandoDoomer]

yeah, youre very off base with this that I don't even know what to say.

Take the 2015 draft out of it. Lou and Conte ran that draft....Shero (and Castron) did not. So you should start your draft comparisons from 2016 onward. As someone else mentioned, we don't really have many players (if any) that are in their actual prime. Most are either leaving it/past it or just entering it.

Hughes and Hischier are blue-chip players. Ty Smith is a very good prospect. Jesper Boqvist is a very good prospect. Reilly Walsh is a very good prospect. Thats just from 4 drafts. I'm not sure how many "blue-chip" prospects you think some of these other teams have, exactly....? Yes, you can say that we "lucked" into the draft lottery wins, but if we had picked 3rd or 4th in 2017 maybe we would have taken Pettersson (also a blue-chip players), so I don't really buy that argument.

Shero stole Palmieri. He stole Hall. He stole Johansson (who didn't work out as we hoped, but still). He made a nice trade for Vatanen. He signed Butcher. He made a nice trade for Subban. He made a nice trade for Gusev.

I totally agree that if he continues to keep Hynes around for this year (and beyond), thats on him. But lets not act like the organization player-wise and prospect-wise is comparable to 2015 because thats an insane statement.

So we have better players now but the results are as bad or worse than when the rebuild started. I guess that's progress.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

So we have better players now but the results are as bad or worse than when the rebuild started. I guess that's progress.

Like I said, if you don't think we're in a better position now than we were in 2015, I don't know what to tell you. There is nothing I can say because that take just blows my mind.

Yes, the results are not there yet. We're all upset at that. However, what if we had league average SV% and won ~2 more games because of it?

and I will say it again. I don't want Hynes to be the coach either. Its clear that we need a change there.

 

[My3Sons]

What will a different GM do besides change coaches? Better trades? Maybe but Shero’s track record is more than solid. Better drafting? Maybe but Shero’s track record is solid if not great. Better team vision? Possibly but then you are back to square one and might have to rebuild from scratch again. It’s tricky and unless Shero has completely lost his grasp of things you have a tough time getting rid of him despite the awful start to the season.

I’ll also add that unless you were on record saying all of these negative things before the season it’s pretty weak to judge this sort of stuff in hindsight. I work in that world and it’s full of cowards and petty intellectual midgets. You don’t want to live there if you don’t have to.

 

[The 29th Pick]

It's still to early to give up on Shero, but it ain't to early to get a new coaching staff, whether the players like it or not.