How do you fix the Wings?

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
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How I would fix the Wings at this point:

Sign Raymond and Seider to long term deals (combined 17M AAV)- unsure if it's 8.125 for 8 or 9 for 7 or whatever, but lets assumed for some argument that's collectively 17M of AVV for at least 6yr+ for each of them aggregated just for cap reasons

Bridge deal for Joe Veleno at 2-3yrs at 2M AAV - pretty easy, low cost depth forward with upside potential on a prove-it deal who can play C/W

Sign RFA Berggren (1.5M AAV) and Johansson (1M AAV) - this one is pretty self-explanatory, bring up both guys as they are ready and without waiver exemption. Johansson should be pretty simple, Burger might be an arbitration on term and value but he shouldn't get more than 1.5 regardless at this point.

Call up Edvinsson - it's time.

Trade Maatta and/or Holl, which ever costs less to move one from - I am not in the camp that Holl has zero value. I think that RHD veteran depth D typically have more value in the league than we acknowledge here on the boards, specially ones that can put up 30+ pts in a season but for the sake of argument, I'll assume that Maatta is the easier to move of the two and will net us a return but ideally we can move from both at this point

Trade: Rasmussen + Pick (2024 3rd OR 2025 2nd) for Martin Necas; sign Necas to contract extension - Necas could move in a number of different directions in terms of value going shorter at a 4yr with the hopes of landing another huge deal at 28-29; or going longer and locking in his value now; I would expect he would live around 7M or so.

This will probably be a controversial move, but to gain the rights to Necas from CAR, it is going to take something of value to them now. As they are actively competing for a Cup and their window is open, they would want a player who a) is relatively cost controlled given their internal player valuing and closely monitored budget, b) brings something that they are lacking from their core - i.e. in this instance, strong physical, two-way play to their up tempo offense and c) is young enough who can be a part of their core for the foreseeable future.

Although it would hurt to lose Rasmussen, we have pesky, physical player in our pipeline who can take over the role as a two-way, physical, crease presence who can play C/W and play in all situations (Kasper, Mazur, etc.) and we net in return a 25yo offensive Centerman whose put up 205pts in his last 290gp (4 seasons). He's got speed and offensive chops to play 2C, and we are getting him as he is entering his prime. Normally a player like this wouldn't be available but CAR doesn't want to exceed their internal cap value for him and are looking to move on and we should be taking advantage.

Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Fabbri - Necas - Compher
(something) - Copp - Berggren
(something) - Veleno - (something)

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Chiarot
Johansson - Petry
Holl

Husso
Lyon

That leaves us with roughly....7M or so to sign 3 forwards to play in our bottom six which should be very easier to find our if one of our prospects shows out early (Danielson, Kasper, Mazur, Lombardi, etc.) - we can move any of them into that mix easily at a very cheap 800K. Additionally, having Copp and Veleno as both C/Ws in those lines, it gives a lot of support to a Kasper or Danielson if they were to move up where they could come in as a wing or split responsibilities with a veteran until they get their feet wet.

That leaves us again with some more space next year when Fabbri (4M), Husson (4.75M), and Petry (2.3M) all come off the books for 2025.


I don't know how realistic this is or if I really truly believe that this would even be a direction that Yzerman would move on but its where I would like to see them head towards. Improve their Top 6 talent with another guy who can be part of the core, while making sure there is space going forward for the next wave of prospects coming up in a year or so.
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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Martin Necas is not a Center. Hasn't ever been at NHL.

Guy is a right winger, and could be a good winger for Compher.
I'm less enthused about Necas lately, in part because it sounds like he's a winger that thinks he should have been playing center all along.

I agree with your take above. But if the player has unrealistic expectations, that will limit where he can go. (And I'd prefer to keep turning over other rocks in hopes of finding somebody that will truly fit here with what Yzerman wants to do.)
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Why do people think Necas is a center? 362 GP and he has only taken 814 faceoffs, winning only 41.5 percent of them or 338 out of 814. That is a low amount of faceoffs for a "center" and he has about as bad a number as you can really have at winning them. You can throw any random defenceman in the faceoff dot and win about 41% of the time.
 

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
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Why do people think Necas is a center? 362 GP and he has only taken 814 faceoffs, winning only 41.5 percent of them or 338 out of 814. That is a low amount of faceoffs for a "center" and he has about as bad a number as you can really have at winning them. You can throw any random defenceman in the faceoff dot and win about 41% of the time.

Because on ice he does a lot of "center" things within the CAR system (I live down here and go do games fairly regularly). CAR prioritizes faceoffs and defensive play from their C's - think Jordan Staal/Andrew Copp style guys. Those are they guys they like taking draws, but CAR plays super uptempo and aggressive 1-2-2, and attacks the neutral zone with speed in transition. Aho and Svech do that for their lines, while Necas does that typically for his line. He is speedy, and creates when they are in play, but he normally doesn't take the draws (often paired with Drury, or splits with Jespari/Teuovo). They just don't give him the faceoffs or the defensive assignment of the C role in this case (down low). To be fair, it's probably because he's not great at faceoffs and is generally mediocre as a defender. That's not really why I would want him though. What he is great at is being an offensive driver, especially as a puck carrier through transition with speed (think Larkin), and creating chances with setup. So he isn't a C and he is. Some of it has to do with the system he plays in, but could he drive an Top 6 line offense? Yeah.

Martin Necas is not a Center. Hasn't ever been at NHL.

Guy is a right winger, and could be a good winger for Compher.

Yeah, he would need to paired with someone like that - or a Kasper. Need someone with some speed and some physicality who can pick up the defensive slack but can still finish. But I love the idea of a Compher/Necas combination
 

JediOrderPizza

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Apr 15, 2012
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giphy.webp
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
41,044
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Ft. Myers, FL
Big Boo to Perron being back. Don't care if he is good in the room, he stinks most of the time on ice.
Perron's production doesn't really back that up. He has only missed games to the suspension and has been a solid second line contributor that does do a lot for the room. I am inclined to go in a different direction if you can find a guy that wins board battles and is as dependable at getting pucks out of the zone, as Perron might be our best at that. He takes a lot of awful passes and makes sure the puck stays deep or gets out. He also constantly wins and protects the puck. I am worried he has lost another half step and even as smart as he is that at some point the skating will just be too much.

With that said I don't really understand this narrative around him that he has somehow been disappointing. I think I appreciate Perron even more now that I have got to see him night in and night out. A real pro's pro in my opinion. I think we need more speed, but we need to find a guy that can do a lot of the things Perron does for the team. If he is taking a smaller figure and playing more down the lineup I am going to have a hard time hating on the signing. I feel like I am constantly trying to trade him, but I don't really see Perron and Fabbri on the same team anymore, we need more speed than carrying both of those guys again in my opinion. To me they are the same bottom six spot that can bump up the lineup in injury or for a spark of offense in game. I don't think you need both and if you can flip out Fabbri while buying out Holl you get a lot more cap flexibility for a significant piece.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Because on ice he does a lot of "center" things within the CAR system (I live down here and go do games fairly regularly). CAR prioritizes faceoffs and defensive play from their C's - think Jordan Staal/Andrew Copp style guys. Those are they guys they like taking draws, but CAR plays super uptempo and aggressive 1-2-2, and attacks the neutral zone with speed in transition. Aho and Svech do that for their lines, while Necas does that typically for his line. He is speedy, and creates when they are in play, but he normally doesn't take the draws (often paired with Drury, or splits with Jespari/Teuovo). They just don't give him the faceoffs or the defensive assignment of the C role in this case (down low). To be fair, it's probably because he's not great at faceoffs and is generally mediocre as a defender. That's not really why I would want him though. What he is great at is being an offensive driver, especially as a puck carrier through transition with speed (think Larkin), and creating chances with setup. So he isn't a C and he is. Some of it has to do with the system he plays in, but could he drive an Top 6 line offense? Yeah.



Yeah, he would need to paired with someone like that - or a Kasper. Need someone with some speed and some physicality who can pick up the defensive slack but can still finish. But I love the idea of a Compher/Necas combination
Necas plays the Paul Kariya role when I watch them. Kariya used to activate as a center in the offensive zone for huge tracks of his career. Likewise even while deployed on the wing, it is often Necas that plays in the classical offensive center role once they break the blueline. He is a talented player, with the Canes needing a cheaper player, I am wondering if this is a spot for a Berggren package.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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as fans we can never really know what players are like in the locker room but with how the Wings looked when Larkin was out they should really be looking to clean house on their veteran "leadership" in general
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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as fans we can never really know what players are like in the locker room but with how the Wings looked when Larkin was out they should really be looking to clean house on their veteran "leadership" in general

Like what veteran leadership?

Veleno was put to bigger role, when Larkin was out and he did show absolutely nothing. I was soe damn disappointed, that I'm not sure if I would like extended at all, if RFA tables are giving him 1.7M whatsoever overpayment.

Imo, we have bigger problems still in this former younger core, than at veterans.

All Hroneks, Zadinas, Velenos can be thrown out and bring in new hungrier material.

Only Larkin and Rasmussen have showed right kind of attitude, and no wonder, Yzerman has given them the longest contracts so far.

Raymond and Seider are next.
 
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ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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Like what veteran leadership?

Veleno was put to bigger role, when Larkin was out and he did show absolutely nothing. I was soe damn disappointed, that I'm not sure if I would like extended at all, if RFA tables are giving him 1.7M whatsoever overpayment.

Imo, we have bigger problems still in this former younger core, than at veterans.

All Hroneks, Zadinas, Velenos can be thrown out and bring in new hungrier material.

Only Larkin and Rasmussen have showed right kind of attitude, and no wonder, Yzerman has given them the longest contracts so far.

Raymond and Seider are next.

the guys wearing letters with a decade or so of NHL experience like Perron

Copp and Chiarot are the other As but they have multiple year contracts still unlike Perron who is a UFA

healthy locker rooms don't fall apart in such an extreme way if one guy goes missing
 
Like what veteran leadership?

Veleno was put to bigger role, when Larkin was out and he did show absolutely nothing. I was soe damn disappointed, that I'm not sure if I would like extended at all, if RFA tables are giving him 1.7M whatsoever overpayment.

Imo, we have bigger problems still in this former younger core, than at veterans.

All Hroneks, Zadinas, Velenos can be thrown out and bring in new hungrier material.

Only Larkin and Rasmussen have showed right kind of attitude, and no wonder, Yzerman has given them the longest contracts so far.

Raymond and Seider are next.
Where has Rasmussen shown the right kinda attitude??? When he's mean mugging his way around the rink?! These oohs and aahs about a 30 points 3rd liner who is a minus skater, doesn't separate opponents from the puck when he hits despite his huge frame
/ not a good forechecker, looses way too many puck battles and has Copp-level offense instincts paired with zero stickhandling ability are absolutely wild!

Veleno and him basically had the same pts total. And it is hardly surprising that a player who is usually the 4th line center - one of the best in the league i might add - doesn't excel on the top line.

Veleno had a career yr and matched his point total by game 60. After that his production went to shit like most of the team. Veleno is servicable in the bottom 6, just like Moose.

PS: Watching a Rick Jeanneret doc and there was this little clip that had me thinking of Moose...



When have we ever seen a devastating forecheck like that from Moose? Never. And btw, Erik Rasmussen was like 6'1 200 lbs...
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,468
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What's best case scenario this offseason? I still honestly believe the team could very well take a step back next season before taking steps forward the following season(s) The kids will be trickled in slowly but there will be growing pains with all of them. I don't see any of our prospects as hit the ground running. I just don't see any eye popping off season moves. Move off a few vets, bring up a kid or two and bring in a vet maybe.
Probably 1 or 2

1) Package some valuable assets for a big trade we don’t see coming for a good/young player at a position of need that helps cement us as a playoff team.

2) Land one of the top UFAs such as Montour, Reinhart, Lindholm, Guentzel
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

Riccis per 60 record holder
Feb 29, 2020
17,642
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Where has Rasmussen shown the right kinda attitude??? When he's mean mugging his way around the rink?! These oohs and aahs about a 30 points 3rd liner who is a minus skater, doesn't separate opponents from the puck when he hits despite his huge frame
/ not a good forechecker, looses way too many puck battles and has Copp-level offense instincts paired with zero stickhandling ability are absolutely wild!

Veleno and him basically had the same pts total. And it is hardly surprising that a player who is usually the 4th line center - one of the best in the league i might add - doesn't excel on the top line.

Veleno had a career yr and matched his point total by game 60. After that his production went to shit like most of the team. Veleno is servicable in the bottom 6, just like Moose.

PS: Watching a Rick Jeanneret doc and there was this little clip that had me thinking of Moose...

When have we ever seen a devastating forecheck like that from Moose? Never. And btw, Erik Rasmussen was like 6'1 200 lbs...

Rasmussen is better than Veleno. Full stop. He was very effective in a shutdown role. Veleno was getting caved at 5v5 even when matched against lower lines. He was just about useless from mid February until the end of the season.

Veleno has value as a trade chip due to his age and contract status but it's not much. He'd be useful in pairing with Holl if we need to trade that contract.
 

sepster

Gerard Gallant is my Spirit Animal
Aug 19, 2005
2,306
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North of the 'D"
Any interest in Pavelski? Maybe on a one year, Modano-style farewell tour?

MSN

No. I'm done with the farewell tour signings. Modano ('10-'11), Brad Richards ('15-'16), David Booth ('17-'18)... even Alfredsson ('13-'14) were more embarrassing and emblematic of the downfall of both the organization and the player than any actual on-ice benefit.

And, yes, I will take this opportunity to once again point out what an absolute scumbag, vile human being Mike Babcock is to have healthy-scratched Mike Modano in the last regular season game, in a season in which the Wings won the Central Division by 5pts, preventing him from reaching 1500 career games.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
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Veteran leadership doesn’t replace the only true top 6 center this team has.

it should at least be able to stop the team from collapsing mentally as much as it did though, if they can't even do that then i'm extremely skeptical of whatever "locker room value" anyone says someone like Perron has

No. I'm done with the farewell tour signings. Modano ('10-'11), Brad Richards ('15-'16), David Booth ('17-'18)... even Alfredsson ('13-'14) were more embarrassing and emblematic of the downfall of both the organization and the player than any actual on-ice benefit.

And, yes, I will take this opportunity to once again point out what an absolute scumbag, vile human being Mike Babcock is to have healthy-scratched Mike Modano in the last regular season game, in a season in which the Wings won the Central Division by 5pts, preventing him from reaching 1500 career games.

eh Alfredsson was tied for the team point lead on a team that made the Playoffs(albeit as a 93 point wild card), that's pretty good for a 1 year signing of a guy in his 40s

the Modano signing was kinda unfortunate, he had a tough time fitting in with what the team was doing but I remember he was finally starting to establish some chemistry and then he got his wrist sliced open in that freak accident
 
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Rasmussen is better than Veleno. Full stop. He was very effective in a shutdown role. Veleno was getting caved at 5v5 even when matched against lower lines. He was just about useless from mid February until the end of the season.

Veleno has value as a trade chip due to his age and contract status but it's not much. He'd be useful in pairing with Holl if we need to trade that contract.
Missing the point. I never argued that he Veleno is better, he isn't. I argued that Moose is not the vastly superior player some make him out to be. And getting caved in certainly is not the fault of 1 player. Starts with the fact that Copp was way better than Veleno on FO. That difference and the resulting plus in posession is hardly Moose's accomplishment.
 
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