How do you feel about the firing of Tim Peel?

[Morbo]

Let's ask the Weasel Commissioner that question

 

[Notsince67]

Firing a guy for doing exactly what he’s been trained to do for 30 years is some scapegoating bullshit.

Game management is not Tim Peele’s fault.

Accessory to a crime the moment the league decided to take gambling money. An ambitious DA might start to squeeze him as a broader rico investigation.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Firing him because he got caught is like putting a layer of paint over black mold. This garbage we call "game management" will continue. It's forced by the league and getting to the point where it's scripted like WWE. The league actually punishes you for leading in a game. It's bananas.

 

[Funk21]

Each and every year there are multiple incidents where the refs are clearly not making calls due to some perceived bias or directive.

I know each fans team will chime in here but being a fan of only one team I can say I have been screaming at the TV multiple times this year for the amount of non calls.

Example-Rielly stick is slashed and explodes in OT versus the Jets and no call. Rielly looks at the refs and is like WTF....Thankfully he creates the game winning play once he grabs a new stick but how that wasn’t called is bush league.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Carlo right now is defending game management and blaming the truck for allowing the hot mic.

Wtf

 

[TakeTheBody]

I hope he goes Donaghy on everyone. Let's out all the dirty secrets.

 

[613Leafer]

Carlo right now is defending game management and blaming the truck for allowing the hot mic.

Wtf

This is one of the problems in hockey. Game management is so engrained, that it's essentially expected by players, analysts, etc at this point.

Though I do think there's a clear difference between:

1. Missing a clear penalty, realizing you missed a clear penalty, and trying to find a "make up" call later;
2. Seeing ~5+ borderline penalties for the same team, and then arbitrarily deciding to call the next one to try to get that team to stop flirting with the grey area; and
3. Refs trying to avoid being perceived as biased, and thus actively and intentionally avoiding calling games with substantially lopsided penalty differentials, even if one team objectively deserves significantly more penalties (i.e. Lowering the threshold of a penalty for the non-dirty team to try to keep things "even", despite the fact that doing so is incredibly unfair and doing precisely what they're trying to avoid being perceived as doing).

Not sure which one Carlo is talking about. I think you can to some extent defend #1-2 (not saying I agree with them, but there's at least some basis in logic/fairness for it, though I think consistent objective calling is ideal), but I see zero defence for #3, and based on how highly correlated penalties drawn vs penalties taken are, regardless of if you're a dirty or clean team, I'm pretty sure #3 is definitely happening.

 

[justashadowof]

I hope he goes Donaghy on everyone. Let's out all the dirty secrets.

Do you really want that to happen? You've already seen that the players don't miss playing in front of an audience and the main broadcaster stick its thumb in the eye of its key Canadian demographic. How detached from the product do you want to get?

 

[Joey Hoser]

This is one of the problems in hockey. Game management is so engrained, that it's essentially expected by players, analysts, etc at this point.

Though I do think there's a clear difference between:

1. Missing a clear penalty, realizing you missed a clear penalty, and trying to find a "make up" call later;
2. Seeing ~5+ borderline penalties for the same team, and then arbitrarily deciding to call the next one to try to get that team to stop flirting with the grey area; and
3. Refs trying to avoid being perceived as biased, and thus actively and intentionally avoiding calling games with substantially lopsided penalty differentials, even if one team objectively deserves significantly more penalties (i.e. Lowering the threshold of a penalty for the non-dirty team to try to keep things "even", despite the fact that doing so is incredibly unfair and doing precisely what they're trying to avoid being perceived as doing).

Not sure which one Carlo is talking about.

He doesn't either. He contradicted himself multiple times in a couple minutes. He said Peel was a great guy and good ref, and also talked about how he would not make calls because he wanted to get booed in St. Louis.

I've had enough of Carlo. The guy is dumb as rocks, can't form a proper sentence, uses words with no idea what they mean, contradicts himself constantly and doesn't even realize it, gets offended when people disagree with him... Ugh.

 

[613Leafer]

He doesn't either. He contradicted himself multiple times in a couple minutes. He said Peel was a great guy and good ref, and also talked about how he would not make calls because he wanted to get booed in St. Louis.

I've had enough of Carlo. The guy is dumb as rocks, can't form a proper sentence, uses words with no idea what they mean, contradicts himself constantly and doesn't even realize it, gets offended when people disagree with him... Ugh.

I only really hear him when he's a guest an Overdrive... But this sounds more or less accurate.

 

[justashadowof]

Carlo Colaiacovo must not have his nightly updates set to automatic. He is one iteration behind on the current company line. He's simply protecting the correct orthodoxy from a week ago.

So, Carlo, if you're reading this, the referees do not and have never "managed" hockey games. Equal penalty calling in contests is just a natural happenstance of neutral refereeing not a result of active game management. Any hockey person caught suggesting otherwise should be instantly unpersoned.

 

[Peasy]

Listening to Overdrive on this topic was painful. They all just completely miss the point because they don't wanna hate on their "buddy". They were equating someone having a preconceived notion of calling a penalty against a specific team for whatever reason to "controlling" the game and making sure it won't get out of hand. Like what????

Those are two completely different scenarios. If a game is getting out of control, sure call it tighter so it calms down and doesnt get out of control, but call it the same for both teams. But this was not the case at all with this incident. Peel clearly had it in his mind that he wanted to call a weak penalty against Nashville for whatever reason, and that is just completely wrong.

Then they ramble on about how if you want it called legit then no one has the right to complain about calls. Like again, what?? Completely missing the point and that is not even true. I guess that means fans would have no right to complain about Kerry Fraser missing a blatant highstick call.

They acted like Peel was just completely blacklisted from the NHL in every way and his life was ruined, when in reality he is just not reffing one extra game, still getting paid, will still get his pension etc.

 

[Leafs87]

It’s sucks that he took the blame for an organizational wide issue.
The other ref literally said “I know” as in yeah yeah do it, it’s what we usually do.

He just got scapegoated

 

[Peasy]

It’s sucks that he took the blame for an organizational wide issue.
The other ref literally said “I know” as in yeah yeah do it, it’s what we usually do.

He just got scapegoated

He was talking to Forsberg

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You know I see nothing wrong with what you mentioned, I don't even consider that game management.

Yes it is a GREY line but not black and white ... but every single play on defense there is a decent chance for a penalty - interference, slash, cross check, elbow, hitting above shoulders where a taller D hits a smaller forward (touches his head) ... and even though da rule book has not changed da interpretations have changed over da years ... do ya have an older ref like Peelsy? or a younger guy? it factors in ... used to be able legally to use your body/cross check on forward in front of net to move him away from ur tender (forwards knew it, refs knew it and defenders knew it) so no screenshots ... today all you are allowed to do is control da attackers stick ... but technically both plays are interference on a man without da puck ... different interpretations 20 years ago and different interpretations today ... but still not da pure rule book ... bottom line is refs are former players most from a generation back so I think we will continue on with game management where refs, as former players, still try to help out other players ... but game overall will get softer and softer and faster and faster and more skilled as da audience changes to younger age groups who are not used to let men be men and decide da game for themselves ... guys like Peelsy are done in game

 

[Beaumaris]

NHL is worst reffed sport and this just highlights it. Change needs to occur and unfortunately the NHL is too scared to do anything

Scottish Premier League,easily holds that title.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Carlo right now is defending game management and blaming the truck for allowing the hot mic.

Wtf

All of us who were, are part of system, know it ... it is all we know ... we have been trained in it since 4 years old ... why do you mock us? ... of course it is issue of MIC ... should we fire every official right now in OHL, AHL and NHL???????????? ... you guys would not have a ref for tonight's games ... and it is not NHL issue ... it starts from day 1 of super 6 hockey where a lot of us played when we were 4 so to REDO this system of former pro players in their late 20s getting into reffing and move on to figure skater refs ... while good luck implementing that one man

 

[kthomasf]

The biggest problem with this is how it permeates all the way down through the levels to the very bottom of hockey. I have coached minor hockey for years and for the most part it is the same. I had one hilarious outlier where a really strict (in other words he called the rules) ref called a Peewee Rep semi final game and it started out with the other team getting 3 straight penalties and us getting a couple as well. I told our kids they had to stop any stick work and just skate. We were the faster/more skilled team by far so we won comfortably and the other team, who did not adjust, took over 15 penalties in the game, had a parent jump over the glass, and the coach told me after it was the worst reffing ever. Every penalty they took was legit. This team, who played in our league, was used to mugging us to keep it close. The funny thing was most parents on our team thought the ref was bad... it is just so part of the culture.

 

[mydnyte]

if one team takes 10 straight penalties, thats on them, and not for the ref to 'even it up' ...and the BS of marginal calls in the 1st period, and then letting everything go in the 3rd is just as bad.
call everything as it is written at all times. that is the ref's job, not to make the game close or change the outcome one way or the other.

 

[Notsince67]

All of us who were, are part of system, know it ... it is all we know ... we have been trained in it since 4 years old ... why do you mock us? ... of course it is issue of MIC ... should we fire every official right now in OHL, AHL and NHL???????????? ... you guys would not have a ref for tonight's games ... and it is not NHL issue ... it starts from day 1 of super 6 hockey where a lot of us played when we were 4 so to REDO this system of former pro players in their late 20s getting into reffing and move on to figure skater refs ... while good luck implementing that one man

You speak as though this is a reflexive action. In the case of Peel, he clearly abused his authority with an intent before the action. He should be fired.
As for the egregious cases of ongoing bias, there should be independent reviews triggered by complaints and statistical evidence. Documented mishaps will provide a basis for disciplinary review.
Cases of multiple "lightning strikes" in the same spot should be thoroughly investigated and actioned if necessary.
There is no known subject matter on the face of the earth where language should deviate so widely from actions as much as refereeing. If a ref is unable to make a timely call, there should be no allowance to mask ineptitude through the use of a ledger of good and bad calls. A ref can have a bad game but any detected pattern should trigger a serious investigation.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You speak as though this is a reflexive action. In the case of Peel, he clearly abused his authority with an intent before the action. He should be fired.
As for the egregious cases of ongoing bias, there should be independent reviews triggered by complaints and statistical evidence. Documented mishaps will provide a basis for disciplinary review.
Cases of multiple "lightning strikes" in the same spot should be thoroughly investigated and actioned if necessary.
There is no known subject matter on the face of the earth where language should deviate so widely from actions as much as refereeing. If a ref is unable to make a timely call, there should be no allowance to mask ineptitude through the use of a ledger of good and bad calls. A ref can have a bad game but any detected pattern should trigger a serious investigation.

IT IS A REFLEX ACTION ... it is so ingrained in hockey players from such an early age that it does not change when a jnr+ official changes from a players jersey to a refs jersey ... like I said you have to change da entire paradigm and move to new way of getting officials if you really want a serious change ... otherwise it will be more of same ... maybe we drop puck from a moving drone ... and call games by some rubix cube kid from his XBOX

 

[Joey Hoser]

All of us who were, are part of system, know it ... it is all we know ... we have been trained in it since 4 years old ... why do you mock us? ... of course it is issue of MIC ... should we fire every official right now in OHL, AHL and NHL???????????? ... you guys would not have a ref for tonight's games ... and it is not NHL issue ... it starts from day 1 of super 6 hockey where a lot of us played when we were 4 so to REDO this system of former pro players in their late 20s getting into reffing and move on to figure skater refs ... while good luck implementing that one man

Are you on drugs? I didn't say they should fire refs or anything remotely like that.

They need to change the culture of how games are officiated. Firing refs is scapegoating.

 

[Notsince67]

IT IS A REFLEX ACTION ... it is so ingrained in hockey players from such an early age that it does not change when a jnr+ official changes from a players jersey to a refs jersey ... like I said you have to change da entire paradigm and move to new way of getting officials if you really want a serious change ... otherwise it will be more of same ... maybe we drop puck from a moving drone ... and call games by some rubix cube kid from his XBOX

Oh please. You act as if people have no agency. It's akin to a cop claiming it is a reflex to pull the trigger after drawing a gun.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yost: The NHL rule book seems headed for a reckoning - TSN.ca

Good article on the situation. I'd also like to point out, he was NOT fired. Can we please speak accurately on this situation?

TSN’s Bob McKenzie pointed out that Peel was not fired, will still continue to be paid.

He will not referee again, because he spoke the unspoken, not because of what he said, but that it was said out loud.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm glad it's out there ,,mommies dirty little secret was said out loud

Maybe it changes the games a little bit

Boston rolls into town and pounds the snot out of you,,they bag 4 PKs gooning it up
We get 4 PKs for phantom trips/dives because a team like that "works the refs"

Is this even game management or a big tilt in Bostons favor?