How do you feel about the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[Stephen]

I lived the Ballard years.

If 20,000 fans boycott you still have 1 million more ready to take their spots.

I’m frustrated with the stalled progress of the Leafs as anyone else but what we need is shrew management, precise roster edits, and properly managing the big contracts to navigate the next 2 years, progress as contenders.

The language of boycotts and mandated change seems more Ballard-y than the winners circle you hope to be in. I don’t think anything should be off the table, but we don’t need to be extremely upset and impatient while looking for change.

 

[ToneDog]

People have been saying that for over 50 years my friend .. fans were fed up 50 years ago .. fans really don't impact Leafs much at all .. ticket revenue, sponsorship, TV $$$ drive da business .. and guess what da business is phenomenal right now .. couldn't be any better .. even 10 years straight not making playoffs did not hurt da cash box .. there are too many of us paying for tickets, buying sponsorship, eating at hot Stove etc etc

Starting to think the best thing for fans in the GTA is for Bell and Rogers to split where one of the two gets an expansion franchise while the other gets the Leafs. Another player would have difficulty compensating the Leafs for the territorial rights on top of what a Toronto expansion team would cost.

Then again, Gary would screw the expansion team in the draft and Rogers or Bell would do their best to f*** it up unlike Vegas and Seattle. We are doomed.

 

[ACC1224]

I lived the Ballard years.

If 20,000 fans boycott you still have 1 million more ready to take their spots.

We hear this all the time but no one ever says what they will change if the fans stopped showing up?
If they could just change something to make them win, why wouldn't they just do that?

 

[Sypher04]

We hear this all the time but no one ever says what they will change if the fans stopped showing up?
If they could just change something to make them win, why wouldn't they just do that?

Yeah the idea they aren’t motivated to win because the arena sells out anyway is actually nonsensical when you consider all the other considerations, such as playoff home game revenue, and avoiding reputational damage to the brand, to cite just a couple examples.

 

[tuckerintensity]

I feel far better about the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs than I do about the current state of their fans.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah the idea they aren’t motivated to win because the arena sells out anyway is actually nonsensical when you consider all the other considerations, such as playoff home game revenue, and avoiding reputational damage to the brand, to cite just a couple examples.

It is human nature to want to win .. clearly team has failed when it counts in playoffs .. da money for next season is already in da bank and da 2023/24 profits are pretty much known as all staff are on fixed salaries including players .. so really only additional cash and profits come from playoffs except for some small food and merch biz which really amounts to a hill of beans in financial statements .. if you were da owner would you make huge changes which might disturb da cash cow .. and huge corporations don't move fast .. i used to think changes could be made but after 50+ years of watching team as a player, as a fan, then a season ticket holder and more recently as a sponsor i don't see it ever changing .. when my dad went to games at MLG it was mostly fans as tickets were $10 for golds and it was a father son event at games .. today it is virtually all corporations in lower bowl and now it is even entering da upper bowl .. there are not many fans left in da building .. when you travel to Tampa you can see da difference

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think Toronto needs a second team. Maybe an expansion team to get a cup. I don't see it with Leafs yet. I think they are misdesigned.

 

[darrylsittler27]

We need a culture change. To me it's fan abuse.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

No hope until Shanahan and Matthews/Marner are gone. Don’t care what happens in the regular season.

What was the point of firing Dubas if you’re just gonna sit on your ass and run it back again?

 

[Racer88]

It’s looking more and more like it’s going to be the same team same coach and same crap as last year so we can expect the same result for the 8th year in a row.
How could anyone feel any different let alone hopeful

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

No hope until Shanahan and Matthews/Marner are gone. Don’t care what happens in the regular season.

What was the point of firing Dubas if you’re just gonna sit on your ass and run it back again?

Actually seems like Shanny and owners are the losers who wanted to run it back whereas Dubas objected that. It really seemed like he was fed up and was ready to move off one of the big 3.

Zero chance Treliving comes in and deals a star as his first move. We were doomed as soon as Dubas was let go.

But hey, they “win” and sell tickets/merch with the star names, so why bother opening your eyes to try to build an actual identity and culture that could win. It’s easier to just let things lie if you’re “successful” already

 

[Enga Olly]

I feel far better about the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs than I do about the current state of their fans.

Some of these "fans" minds have become so twisted they don't know which end is up. No boycott is forthcoming - never will happen. All these wanna-be GM's need to stop caring, stop following, then possibly Leaf fan support will trend down and then you might get some sort of corporate response that you desire. I don't know what that response is but clearly the most vocal/disgruntled fans desire some specific yet implausible direct action.

A simple truth - none of us know the first thing about running a team. Just some here are deluded and think they do. The suggestion that Marner/Mathews and Shanahan "need to go" is the kind of petulance that has overrun this board and has made this place worse than pointless

 

[Racer88]

Actually seems like Shanny and owners are the losers who wanted to run it back whereas Dubas objected that. It really seemed like he was fed up and was ready to move off one of the big 3.

Zero chance Treliving comes in and deals a star as his first move. We were doomed as soon as Dubas was let go.

But hey, they “win” and sell tickets/merch with the star names, so why bother opening your eyes to try to build an actual identity and culture that could win. It’s easier to just let things lie if you’re “successful” already

Actually we were doomed the minute Dubas was hired and decided to short circuit the rebuild with the catastrophic Tavares signing

 

[darrylsittler27]

This team is in far worse shape than people think and they will be weaker next year. This franchise is blind.

 

[alliuk12]

Rebuild this

Burn it to the ground and try to compete for 2027

well i won't be around for the playoffs but im a leafs fan in life and even in death i will always be a leafs fan i hope they keep pushing for the cup. i just love this team 68 years and still going

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I am sooooo disappointed in this team.

The truth is, our once proud franchise has become a joke. There's been little success to speak of. The fans are frustrated at the continued annual playoffs disappointment.

And yet, for some reason, these losers seem to expect us to worship the ground they walk on.

You want to be heroes. Admired by my kids. Respected by Leafs Nation.

Give us a reason.

You want to be put on a pedestal. Glorified as saviour. Have a statue erected in your honour.

Give us a reason.

Give us a reason to admire you. Give us a reason to respect you. Give us a reason to celebrate the job you're doing.

Give us ONE reason, one good reason, why we should hold you all in such high honour just now.

Because I, personally, feel like it's getting harder and harder to cheer for this team after every playoffs disappointment. This is where we are at. The fans no longer believe these guys can get it done.

I'm sorry, it hurts being told your best isn't good enough, I know.

The truth hurts.

 

[geo25]

It is amazing to me that the obvious need for fundamental change at the end of the season has just evaporated with time. It seems as if people can't accept the very clear empirical evidence already on the table: the Leafs are not going to win with this group. Never mind analyzing why, or theorizing some small tweak. The evidence is the evidence. Just accept it. That's why "running it back" is insane. What the hell is Brad Treliving doing?

Its not Trev....its who hired him that needs to be canned. Shanny & his BS Shannyplan are the #1 problem

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I am sooooo disappointed in this team.

The truth is, our once proud franchise has become a joke. There's been little success to speak of. The fans are frustrated at the continued annual playoffs disappointment.

And yet, for some reason, these losers seem to expect us to worship the ground they walk on.

You want to be heroes. Admired by my kids. Respected by Leafs Nation.

Give us a reason.

You want to be put on a pedestal. Glorified as saviour. Have a statue erected in your honour.

Give us a reason.

Give us a reason to admire you. Give us a reason to respect you. Give us a reason to celebrate the job you're doing.

Give us ONE reason, one good reason, why we should hold you all in such high honour just now.

Because I, personally, feel like it's getting harder and harder to cheer for this team after every playoffs disappointment. This is where we are at. The fans no longer believe these guys can get it done.

I'm sorry, it hurts being told your best isn't good enough, I know.

The truth hurts.

"Glory Box" - Song and Lyrics by Portishead

 

[geo25]

Actually seems like Shanny and owners are the losers who wanted to run it back whereas Dubas objected that. It really seemed like he was fed up and was ready to move off one of the big 3.

Zero chance Treliving comes in and deals a star as his first move. We were doomed as soon as Dubas was let go.

But hey, they “win” and sell tickets/merch with the star names, so why bother opening your eyes to try to build an actual identity and culture that could win. It’s easier to just let things lie if you’re “successful” already

Oh, and they own the media as well so they can, and do, put positive spins on everything they do. Fan drop off (apathy) is the best & only way...or, getting a 2nd local team.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I don't understand how this thread got bumped now. We need a lot more time to actually assess this team. The season starts in Oct. Perhaps there will be things that get ironed out by then.

I like Tre so far. I feel pretty good about him and what he's done so far. There's no reason to think TOR is in a tail spin. They should make the playoffs. Let's hope they find the right soldiers to go further than winning five playoff games.

 

[Nineteen67]

How much shrapnel will they take becoming cap compliant?

I don't understand how this thread got bumped now. We need a lot more time to actually assess this team. The season starts in Oct. Perhaps there will be things that get ironed out by then.

I like Tre so far. I feel pretty good about him and what he's done so far. There's no reason to think TOR is in a tail spin. They should make the playoffs. Let's hope they find the right soldiers to go further than winning five playoff games.

The GM hasn’t impressed me yet. Lots of time though.

 

[justashadowof]

Actually seems like Shanny and owners are the losers who wanted to run it back whereas Dubas objected that. It really seemed like he was fed up and was ready to move off one of the big 3.

Zero chance Treliving comes in and deals a star as his first move. We were doomed as soon as Dubas was let go.

But hey, they “win” and sell tickets/merch with the star names, so why bother opening your eyes to try to build an actual identity and culture that could win. It’s easier to just let things lie if you’re “successful” already

Yet there's Kyle Dubas "running it all back" in Pittsburgh with a team formula that has never won a Stanley Cup in the history of the National Hockey League. Perhaps there was a disagreement regarding this between Dubas and Shanahan but this had zero to do with why Dubas left the organization. It was always about promotion and power without accomplishment.

Regarding the 2023-24 team as it's currently assembled, it's definitely just being run back at the moment. But there are still major things to happen. The extensions (or not extensions) to Matthews and Nylander are to be settled presumably before the end of the summer. We literally have to hold off judgment until February/March 2024. It's then that we'll know what kind of team BT is planning on sending off to compete in the NHL playoffs (if they're on track with qualifying for the 2024 playoffs - not an impossible scenario.) The coach could be changed by then, there could be a major addition to the defense, there could be a new outlook with respect to the youth in the organization, etc.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

What are the chances that if Dubas were still GM he would trade our 1st round pick?

 

[Mess]

Is it too early to start and GM Brad Trevling thread which claims he is passing all tests?

 

[Mickey Marner]