How can the World Championship improve as an event?

[Zine]

So then why does Canada win much more often at tournaments we do care about?

Red herring.

The Canadians (aka NHLers) who make the effort to play in the WC obviously care. It's not a small sacrifice after a long season.
The point is = USA and Canada, the teams usually with most NHLers at the WC, aren't lighting the tourney up. This says more about the skill level of NHL 3rd, 4th liners relative to European players than it does about them 'not caring'.

 

[saskriders]

I might be reading this wrong, but it appears you do not know the population of Canada.

Population of Canada 35.16 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population of canada

Population of Slovakia 5.414 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population+of+slovakia

Population of Czech Republic 10.52 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population+of+czech+republic


Two of the smaller countries that have been more successful at senior tournaments than junior tournaments.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Red herring.

The Canadians (aka NHLers) who make the effort to play in the WC obviously care. It's not a small sacrifice after a long season.

It is viewed as a fun party, not a sacrifice. Do they want to lose? No. Are they worried if they don't win? Also no.

 

[Zine]

It is viewed as a fun party, not a sacrifice. Do they want to lose? No. Are they worried if they don't win? Also no.

If its a fun party, why do players turn it down?

The WC is a sacrifice for NHLers, and the players who make the sacrifice go there to win.
It's a shame higher-end North American NHLers don't accept invites more regularly, especially the US. They would be better competition than the NHLers that usually go and don't do so well against Euro competition.

 

[teris]

That is what the OP was saying. You send over 3rd and 4th line players it is not surprising that Canada and the US do poorly at this tournament. I don't consider that excuse making but reality. Just look at the lineups.

Anyway that is why I am a proponent of moving the tournament to September. It isn't a guarantee that all the best would show but the chances are much greater. Plus, the tournament could be hosted in North America.

Did you?
2013 Canada: Hamhuis, Subban, Hall, Duchene, Staal brothers, Eberle, Simmonds, Giroux, Skinner, O'Reilly, Stamkos...
2012 Canada: Keith, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Vlasic, Kane, Perry, Eberle, Getzlaf, Tavares, Benn, O'Reilly, Skinner, Sharp, Nugent-Hopkins...
2011 Canada: Phaneuf, Burns, Pietrangelo, Kane, Eberle, Neal, Spezza, Tavares, Skinner, Nash, Duchene...

Not exactly scrubs here. Olympic years are obviously very different for every team. Lockout might have given some players a reason to join in 2013 but more players were tied up with the playoffs than normal.

 

[Rob]

Did you?
2013 Canada: Hamhuis, Subban, Hall, Duchene, Staal brothers, Eberle, Simmonds, Giroux, Skinner, O'Reilly, Stamkos...
2012 Canada: Keith, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Vlasic, Kane, Perry, Eberle, Getzlaf, Tavares, Benn, O'Reilly, Skinner, Sharp, Nugent-Hopkins...
2011 Canada: Phaneuf, Burns, Pietrangelo, Kane, Eberle, Neal, Spezza, Tavares, Skinner, Nash, Duchene...

Not exactly scrubs here. Olympic years are obviously very different for every team. Lockout might have given some players a reason to join in 2013 but more players were tied up with the playoffs than normal.

2013 was half decent. Didn't they lose in a shootout to Sweden who went on to win the gold?

Last year's was abysmal. They even lost to France.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

If its a fun party, why do players turn it down?

I guess there are other things they'd rather be doing. Spending time with their kids and families might be one.

 

[Rob]

Can someone comment on why the IIHF holds the tournament in May instead of September?

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Can someone comment on why the IIHF holds the tournament in May instead of September?

Because back in the 30's the NHL season was already over in May, only in the 80's did it start to overlap and has gotten worse and worse in overlapping - only for the reason that the NHL has lost tv audiences in North America and has tried to run outside the competing seasons so it would be the only final on TV at said time.

 

[Lepardi]

Because back in the 30's the NHL season was already over in May, only in the 80's did it start to overlap and has gotten worse and worse in overlapping -

Are you trying to say that the NHL season didn't overlap with the WC in the 1970s and the 1960s? If that's the case, you should check your facts.

only for the reason that the NHL has lost tv audiences in North America and has tried to run outside the competing seasons so it would be the only final on TV at said time.

Which other finals are you talking about? The Super Bowl is in February and the NBA Finals end later than the Stanley Cup finals. If the NHL wanted their finals to be the only finals on TV at said time, they should have the Stanley Cup finals in May.

 

[Rob]

Because back in the 30's the NHL season was already over in May, only in the 80's did it start to overlap and has gotten worse and worse in overlapping - only for the reason that the NHL has lost tv audiences in North America and has tried to run outside the competing seasons so it would be the only final on TV at said time.

But what prevents the IIHF from moving the tournament to September?

 

[Sanderson]

But what prevents the IIHF from moving the tournament to September?

Logic mostly.

There is zero reason to assume that holding the tournament in September would be a good idea in any way, shape or form.

European teams are right at the end of the preseason or starting their season, meaning players are completely out of gameshape. It would also push the seasons of all European leagues way into May, which is somewhat fine for a rather small tournament that can be treated as a special event in the country, not so when it is true for every single league in Europe. And if the NHL would try to accomodate that new date, the NHL season would end even later than it already does, because September is the time of training camps and preseason.

With the way the NHL has expanded its season up into June, there is no way to hold the tournament at a time where things don't collide. The best bet would be to start the NHL-season a week or two earlier, so that only the conference finals and Stanley Cup final would be left once the WCH starts. Meaning 26 out of 30 teams are already out.

The WCH is pretty much as old as the NHL is, with the IIHF being even older. Why should it be the world federation that has to make adjustments all the time, when it is the NHL that bloated its season to the point that there is no good spot left outside of its season?
(And that is coming from someone who is an NHL fan first and international hockey second. And I do know why the NHL cares mostly about itself, it's just that some fans from the area can't really seem to grasp the concept of worldwide hockey).

 

[Auston Marlander]

Population of Canada 35.16 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population of canada

Population of Slovakia 5.414 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population+of+slovakia

Population of Czech Republic 10.52 million (2013)
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population+of+czech+republic


Two of the smaller countries that have been more successful at senior tournaments than junior tournaments.

I get that, but that's not what was said. Hence my post to get clarity.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I'm not even sure moving the WC would result in attracting significantly more NHLers. I would think for a lot of players extending their season by a couple of weeks to play in a spring WC is more favourable than cutting their summer short (on the backend) to play in a fall WC. I'm also not sure if NHL owners would really like the idea of players going off to play in the WC a couple of weeks before training camps are suppose to start either. Tbh I think if moving the WC to September resulted in everyone showing up with the 'A squad' the NHL owners would consider it a problem.

It isn't that the players there don't care, it is the ones that don't go (see: our best players) don't care.

I'm not saying they are right, but to say Canada is not as good when our B or C squad doesn't beat A squads, well, that's just daft.

Over the past couple of pages I don't think anyone is making that point. The point was the NHL doesn't have a monopoly on the 800 or so best players in the world and that Canada, a team that is 100% NHL players, has in 5 straight years fallen in the QF to teams with players who make their living outside the NHL. This lead to someone suggesting the reason why they are losing is because even the players going don't really care.

Everyone knows Canada isn't showing up with the 'A squad', but Canada is hardly the only country making due with a (far) less than ideal roster.

 

[saskriders]

I get that, but that's not what was said. Hence my post to get clarity.

I just said there were countries in the world championships that have 25 or 30 million fewer people than Canada.

 

[xxxx]

Logic mostly.

There is zero reason to assume that holding the tournament in September would be a good idea in any way, shape or form.

Besides that it could allow NHL players to participate, of course. On the other hand it's very possible that NHL would not go to the olympics if they released their players every single year. Maybe even that could be reason why the WHC is still in May.

 

[Shrimper]

Why not move it to February like with the Olympics and All-Star game.

2014: Olympics
2015: All-Star Game is the culmination of the World Hockey Championship/World Cup - Best players from it play
2016: All-Star Game
2017: All-Star Game is the culmination of the World Hockey Championship/World Cup - Best players from it play
2018: Olympics

Would moving it to February work?

 

[Lepardi]

Besides that it could allow NHL players to participate, of course.

What makes you think that NHL teams would let their players go to WC in September?

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Why not move it to February like with the Olympics and All-Star game.

2014: Olympics
2015: All-Star Game is the culmination of the World Hockey Championship/World Cup - Best players from it play
2016: All-Star Game
2017: All-Star Game is the culmination of the World Hockey Championship/World Cup - Best players from it play
2018: Olympics

Would moving it to February work?

You seem to be suggesting either that (1) the NHL take a hiatus in February to allow NHLers to play in the WHC or (2) The All Star Game consists of whatever NHLers happen to play well at the WHC. Both suggestions are ridiculous.

 

[Rob]

What makes you think that NHL teams would let their players go to WC in September?

They let them go in May.

 

[Lepardi]

They let them go in May.

I figure this might have something to do with two facts:
1. They're not running their training camps in May.
2. Their season is over in May.

 

[Shrimper]

You seem to be suggesting either that (1) the NHL take a hiatus in February to allow NHLers to play in the WHC or (2) The All Star Game consists of whatever NHLers happen to play well at the WHC. Both suggestions are ridiculous.

If played in February it would become the World Cup.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

If played in February it would become the World Cup.

Sadly its much more likely the NHL will stop sending players to the Olympics every four years than allowing them to attend the WC every year in February.

 

[teris]

If played in February it would become the World Cup.

The World Cup is NHL organized. The World Championships is IIHF organized. Neither party is looking to share the money with the other and the tournaments have wildly different formats.

 

[saskriders]

I think we need to add some teams (may 8 to make 24, or 4 to make 20). There isn't enough competition to get promoted or avoid relegation. If there was more it could encourage weaker nations to improve their hockey program.

Since the far east qualifier was eliminated in 2005 (and including 2015):

-Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Switzerland, Latvia, Belarus, and Denmark have been in all 11 tournaments

-Germany and Norway have been in 10 of 11 tournaments

-France has been in 8 of 11 tournaments

-Slovenia, Austria, and Italy have been in 6 of 11 tournaments

-Kazakhstan has been in 5 of 11 tournaments

-Ukraine has been in 3 of 11 tournaments with 0 appearances since 2007

-Hungary has been in 1 of 11 tournaments (2009)

The last 6 tournaments have also just been Kazakhstan and Italy swapping back and forth with Austria and Slovenia


Nothing is changing. Countries don't seem to be improving