How bad is the morale of the fanbase right now?

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Just an innocent question... Does Marner at his cap hit have any trade value...

How much did he even have in trade value in the regular season last year at his huge salary.

I am a big believer in selling high and buying low...But this guy.....
Of course he has trade value.
There is always a team that has a different core makeup, philosophy, GM, coaches that a player might do better in.

I don’t think our core, the collection is good enough for “killer instinct”, big moments, playoff hockey (if you watch other teams in the playoffs.
This doesn’t mean Marner is the change or only change, I’d probably start with the GM. Someone with no emotion to the crowd, made no promises and will evaluate all of the above accordingly.
 
Probably the most negative I have been with the team in recent years. Hockey is a funny sport thought so it's hard to know where things will be in a couple of months or over the course of a season.
 
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I think there is some over reaction going on right now. We are still only 6 games into the season. Realistically if this core cannot get their shit together by end of 2021, there will be sizeable moves going forward. Which I think we are all prepared and ready for. I think that is a huge reason why why extending Mo this last offseason was not done IMO. This management group knows just as much as anyone on here how fragile this group is mentally. I am confident that if they don't see the appropriate mental maturation from them this year, they will move on.

We have to see how this core handles the added pressure. So far, it has been more of the same, and it has not been looking good for this team continuing as is. But we cannot forget there is still so much hockey left to play.

This type of skid in February gains a fraction of the attention. But on the heels of an embarrassing post season there is understandably much more concern. I completely understand everyone's frustrations, I feel it too. I just think we need to take a deep breath for a second here. Realistically it has only been 2 bad games from this group, on B2B nights. Not making excuses at all, they need to be better, but the damage done in the last 3 games can easily be erased by going 7-2-1 in their next 10 games.
 
Pretty demoralized…..I don’t see anything good happening until Marner is traded ans]d Dubas is replaced.
Simple as that
 
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I am just apathetic. I don't blame any single person or entity (management, players, personnel, coaching etc.) It's just what it is.

Wins don't excite me much because I know what comes next. For me to believe in this team or core, they'll have to do something different than they have done so far and by that I don't just mean a measly playoff series win that pretty much every team beside us and the Florida Panthers have done over the last 10-15 years. They'll have to play like contenders and make it to the ECF or SCF.

And we all know that's not happening. So I am just indifferent. I don't care enough at the moment to watch every game or even a full game. I'll check the scoreboard here and there. I spend more time commenting here more about the Leafs than watching them.

Just fast forward to the playoffs. I just want to see if they have learned anything yet (if they make the playoffs that is).
 
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The bolded is exactly where I’m at and I think quite a few fans
Really? Trading for Kessel and finishing 2nd last and losing Seguin and then finishing bottom 10 and losing out on Hamilton wasn't worse as a fan? Man I'm remembering those years way differently than you.

I live in Calgary and I was far more embarrassed to wear my Leafs hat then, than now lol.

Now we're just an irreverent team that under achieves. Before we were an actual joke.
 
I lived through some of those 80's teams as well. As bad as they were, they at least gave 110% effort every single night (even though they lost most of the time). Same can't be said of our group now.

If this team at least gave an honest effort, I wouldn't be so down on them...
Definitely don't agree with that. Some of those 80s teams mailed in a lot of games or if they were down early checked out for the rest of the game.
 
I’m at the point where I don’t care if they lose anymore, after them blowing that series to MTL. I laugh when we get scored on because you know Dubas is just squirming on the hot seat. Haven’t watched a full game this year, even the Ottawa game I had tickets to I got their 30 mins late and left 10 mins early…
 
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I’m at the point where I don’t care if they lose anymore, after them blowing that series to MTL. I laugh when we get scored on because you know Dubas is just squirming on the hot seat. Haven’t watched a full game this year, even the Ottawa game I had tickets to I got their 30 mins late and left 10 mins early…
I believe you are starting to see a lot more empty seats at the Scotiabank arena now as well. Quite frankly people have had enough of the broken promises.

Whether people want to face the reality or not, this team is finished. The teardown will begin after they miss the playoffs this season. They are going to lose Matthews in two years for sure and Nylander is as good as gone as well.

Dubas’ refusal to trade Marner will inevitably cost him his job. Marner is a cancer in the dressing room and absolutely 100% needs to be traded.
 
Really? Trading for Kessel and finishing 2nd last and losing Seguin and then finishing bottom 10 and losing out on Hamilton wasn't worse as a fan? Man I'm remembering those years way differently than you.

I live in Calgary and I was far more embarrassed to wear my Leafs hat then, than now lol.

Now we're just an irreverent team that under achieves. Before we were an actual joke.


Well I can't personally speak for Glue, but for me it's just about a pattern combined with length of time. We have had some just god awful periods for decades now so it is a veritable cornucopia of red faced options. I've felt embarrassed before by my belief in the MAple Leaf blinded me to never give up! This specific team with the sheer amount of skill it possessed, the entire rebuild process from tip top president to the opposing teams washroom janitor made this whole last 6 years feel like we had finally done it after 5 decades of losing. 50 years of constantly saying "next year is the one, we've got the team to do it!" Followed by the fumbling around of lineups to make Aki Berg and Mike Komisarek look like viable top 2 stand-ins.

I think this was just the last straw. We can't be the overachieving underdog that wins. We can't be the team that finds a load of low level draft picks or free agents and wins. We can't be the team that stacks itself with more talent than any Leaf team I can remember and win. We just plain suck and I'm sick of it. Too be perfectly honest, just about everyone ive ever known who gently took digs at me and the Leafs or made fun in jest has also kinda given up too because they just feel bad.
 
I lived through some of those 80's teams as well. As bad as they were, they at least gave 110% effort every single night (even though they lost most of the time). Same can't be said of our group now.

If this team at least gave an honest effort, I wouldn't be so down on them...

I don't think that's quite right. I've heard Russ Courtnall and Wendel Clark on The Suspendables podcast talk about how those 80s teams were quite talented but they never consistently put it together in a mature, professional way to have the success that their talent level implied. Wendel himself made the interesting comment that the late 80s Leafs had more talent than the 1992-94 Burns Leafs that actually got things done in the playoffs.

Without being old enough to watch those teams, I would venture to guess that those young cores kind of suffered from the same young hot shot syndrome we see with this current group and also during the Kessel, Bozak era. Toronto seems like a tough place to be an early success because it will just go to your head.
 
Just an innocent question... Does Marner at his cap hit have any trade value...

How much did he even have in trade value in the regular season last year at his huge salary.

I am a big believer in selling high and buying low...But this guy.....

Marner is a legitimate superstar. You just have to remember that in any trade scenario that another team might have the right support pieces around him to get better use out of him, whereas he's kind of miscast here in Toronto as an alpha dog.
 
Really? Trading for Kessel and finishing 2nd last and losing Seguin and then finishing bottom 10 and losing out on Hamilton wasn't worse as a fan? Man I'm remembering those years way differently than you.

I live in Calgary and I was far more embarrassed to wear my Leafs hat then, than now lol.

Now we're just an irreverent team that under achieves. Before we were an actual joke.

I hear you, but I think it’s more embarrassing now cause of how much skill and potential we have and even had if you go back a few years of our journey..it’s rough more in my opinion for that reason when we keep failing. Those days sucked as well, but expectations were much lower
 
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I'm honestly getting pretty stoked LOL. I want to get into this team again. keep doing this so we can be gone of the front office. It's what's needed.
 
My apathy is growing each game.

I remember being on the edge of my seat, excited/terrified watching playoff games as a kid. I loved seeing Tucker, Domi, Sundin, etc. and genuinely liked the team.

I can't say the same about this team. When was the last time you didn't expect this team to fall apart? It happens so regularly that I don't allow myself to get too invested.
 
I just don't enjoy watching the games anymore. It makes me walk around the house in anger and then the depression sets in. I honestly don't know why I even bothered to watch the game today and then take the time to post here..
 
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That last playoffs was a back breaker for me, not nearly half as invested in the team this year. Not worth it…

We’re all on the receiving end of an abusive relationship
 
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