Honest question....

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

6 years of first round failure with this core
drops Mike
boom


That’s why I included the “if they do crap out in the first round”

We are an elite team playing basically .500 hockey heading into the playoffs

And you think the right course of action is to make the team worse by trading the franchise players.

Because there is no realistic way to win a Marner or Matthews trade.

Get educated.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Also not by tying up 50% of the cap on 4 forwards either

No, that's manageable. Many cup teams have spent that amount of cap on that amount of impact. And it was only at that level because of a flat cap, which is almost over.

6 years of first round failure

Already addressed, and changes nothing. The solution isn't making us worse.

 

[diceman934]

I look at Tkachuk who has put up more points than Marner and Nylander ever have and I ask, why do Marner and Nylander deserve to be paid more ?? Taxes ??

Not true Marner has produced more then Tkachuk.

Marner is not going to get traded unless it is at his request

 

[Racer88]

And you think the right course of action is to make the team worse by trading the franchise players.

Because there is no realistic way to win a Marner or Matthews trade.

Get educated.

I don’t need to get educated but you need to expand your mind. There is alway a way to get better and it sometimes involves trading good players especially if they fail again this year. It will be plainly obvious that they cannot get the job done as a whole no matter how skilled individually they may be.
All that said, my first choice would be to trade the 11 million dollar contract of Tavares and get a GM that has some idea how to build a well balanced team.
So to say that you could never get better by trading one of those 2 is silly because every cup winner in history did it without Marner or Matthews.
it is not guaranteed that you would get better but it certainly is possible

 

[Racer88]

No, that's manageable. Many cup teams have spent that amount of cap on that amount of impact. And it was only at that level because of a flat cap, which is almost over.

Already addressed, and changes nothing. The solution isn't making us worse.

So if you say that 50% is manageable then it comes down to one of two things, either it isn’t manageable or we a GM that cannot manage to make it work by finding enough cheap quality players to make it work. with this skilled core he has had long enough to at least show a measurable improvement in the playoffs.

And you think the right course of action is to make the team worse by trading the franchise players.

Because there is no realistic way to win a Marner or Matthews trade.

Get educated.

I quoted you twice because I wanted to make 2 separate points. Lol
I hope to God not but what if they crap out first round this year for the 7th year in a row what would you do. Just run it all again for the 8th year or make major changes?

 

[Dekes For Days]

So if you say that 50% is manageable then it comes down to one of two things, either it isn’t manageable or we a GM that cannot manage to make it work by finding enough cheap quality players to make it work.

Except he very literally has managed to make it work and create and maintain a top tier team, despite having his internal pool depleted and unreplenished before he got here, and a global pandemic-induced flat cap unexpectedly freezing that percentage for an extended period of time for the first time in history.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So if you say that 50% is manageable then it comes down to one of two things, either it isn’t manageable or we a GM that cannot manage to make it work by finding enough cheap quality players to make it work. with this skilled core he has had long enough to at least show a measurable improvement in the playoffs.


I quoted you twice because I wanted to make 2 separate points. Lol
I hope to God not but what if they crap out first round this year for the 7th year in a row what would you do. Just run it all again for the 8th year or make major changes?

I would start by firing Keefe, which should have been done about 3 seconds after he talked about respect in the handshake line.

Then I'd probably fire Dubas, the ONLY reason you wouldn't is become he's probably got a lot of the groundwork on a Matthews extension done.

But if he can't sign Matthews he's fired.

Then I try to keep ROR, Accari and Schenn

Boot Kerfoot and Holl out the door

Bunting I'd investigate what he wants because I do like him but if he's looking for 5+ million he's gone.

There have been Rumours of Vancouver buying out Garland, if they are dumb to do that I'd bring him in has Kerfoot's replacement.

As for Bunting replacement I'd have to look at the free agent list.

I'd replace Keefe with somebody that kick their ass, It's to bad Torts is in Philadelphia because he'd be ideal..

This team more than anytime in my opinion needs a coach that will kick their ass.

Before ANY core changes are made, get a real bastard in here to whip their ass.

If than doesn't work THEN you start making core changes.

I don't think the core is the main issue I never have.

I would start with Keefe

 

[ToneDog]

Not true Marner has produced more then Tkachuk.

Marner is not going to get traded unless it is at his request

Not the last two years. Even so, how much more is Mitch worth than Tkachuk ?? This is why I think the Pasta deal (11.25mx8) front loaded is in the ball park.

Marner might be the one most willing to stay but they could trade him if they decided to go in a different.

 

[andora]

I would start by firing Keefe, which should have been done about 3 seconds after he talked about respect in the handshake line.

Then I'd probably fire Dubas, the ONLY reason you wouldn't is become he's probably got a lot of the groundwork on a Matthews extension done.

But if he can't sign Matthews he's fired.

Then I try to keep ROR, Accari and Schenn

Boot Kerfoot and Holl out the door

Bunting I'd investigate what he wants because I do like him but if he's looking for 5+ million he's gone.

There have been Rumours of Vancouver buying out Garland, if they are dumb to do that I'd bring him in has Kerfoot's replacement.

As for Bunting replacement I'd have to look at the free agent list.

I'd replace Keefe with somebody that kick their ass, It's to bad Torts is in Philadelphia because he'd be ideal..

This team more than anytime in my opinion needs a coach that will kick their ass.

Before ANY core changes are made, get a real bastard in here to whip their ass.

If than doesn't work THEN you start making core changes.

I don't think the core is the main issue I never have.

I would start with Keefe

Where did you see the garland buyout stuff?

 

[Racer88]

Except he very literally has managed to make it work and create and maintain a top tier team, despite having his internal pool depleted and unreplenished before he got here, and a global pandemic-induced flat cap unexpectedly freezing that percentage for an extended period of time for the first time in history.

He hasn’t made it work…….yes we are a decent regular season team but we have lost 6 years in a row the first round. We have seen time and time again that when teams push back the Leafs fold.
You may think 2 decades of of never getting past the first round and 6 of those coming the last 6 years in a row doesn’t mean anything but you’re wrong. It’s means a lot to us long suffering fans and the simple fact that Shanny either didn’t or wasn’t allowed to extend him prior to this season. You can bet your ass they are waiting to see if this radical build can actually have any sort of success

 

[Racer88]

I would start by firing Keefe, which should have been done about 3 seconds after he talked about respect in the handshake line.

Then I'd probably fire Dubas, the ONLY reason you wouldn't is become he's probably got a lot of the groundwork on a Matthews extension done.

But if he can't sign Matthews he's fired.

Then I try to keep ROR, Accari and Schenn

Boot Kerfoot and Holl out the door

Bunting I'd investigate what he wants because I do like him but if he's looking for 5+ million he's gone.

There have been Rumours of Vancouver buying out Garland, if they are dumb to do that I'd bring him in has Kerfoot's replacement.

As for Bunting replacement I'd have to look at the free agent list.

I'd replace Keefe with somebody that kick their ass, It's to bad Torts is in Philadelphia because he'd be ideal..

This team more than anytime in my opinion needs a coach that will kick their ass.

Before ANY core changes are made, get a real bastard in here to whip their ass.

If than doesn't work THEN you start making core changes.

I don't think the core is the main issue I never have.

I would start with Keefe

Thanks that’s a well thought out response. I agree with firing Keefe but I’m not sure if he will get the chance if the Leafs blow it in the first round. My gut feeling is that if they win 1 round but lose the second it will result in Keefe fired and Dubas gets a 1 or 2 year extension to see if a fresh voice can get these guys going.
100% agree if he can’t sign Matthews and at that point you have to trade him because that will be the biggest blunder in the history of GM’s if he walks for nothing
I think each of the core are basically very good skilled players but I’m just not sure if they can make the Whole greater then the sum of its parts and that’s what is exactly needed for the playoffs.
Either way I’m hoping for success and these conversations become moot

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Where did you see the garland buyout stuff?

Where did you see the garland buyout stuff?

Kyperos, so I'm skeptical

 

[andora]

Kyperos, so I'm skeptical

Lol.. how long ago did he say that..

Garland isnt getting bought out

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lol.. how long ago did he say that..

Garland isnt getting bought out

Before the deadline

 

[Leaf Lander]

Keep marner and nylander

Trade mathews for picks and prospects
Sign Tavares for 5 mil a yr 5 yrs
Marner 8 yrs 12 mil a yr
Nylander 8 yrs 9 mil a yr

 

[ToneDog]

Keep marner and nylander

Trade mathews for picks and prospects
Sign Tavares for 5 mil a yr 5 yrs
Marner 8 yrs 12 mil a yr
Nylander 8 yrs 9 mil a yr

Not trading 34 after the game he just had tonight unless he indicates he does not want to stay.

Sign 34 for $1 more than MacKinnon and 16 for 0.1% more than Pasta.

Trade 88.

Sign JT for $5mx1, $4mx1, $3mx1

Trade for Carter Hart

 

[keonsbitterness]

Philly isn't trading Hart unless it's s big overpay.

 

[Racer88]

Except he very literally has managed to make it work and create and maintain a top tier team, despite having his internal pool depleted and unreplenished before he got here, and a global pandemic-induced flat cap unexpectedly freezing that percentage for an extended period of time for the first time in history.

Just for the record this top tier team is 22 points behind Boston and we are .500 our last 10 game. Is that what you really think is top tier. Our co- number one goalie has let in 4 goals in 7 of his last 8 starts, again is that top tier.

 

[Havoc]

Keep marner and nylander

Trade mathews for picks and prospects
Sign Tavares for 5 mil a yr 5 yrs
Marner 8 yrs 12 mil a yr
Nylander 8 yrs 9 mil a yr

I hope this is a joke. Matthews on ice impact is arguably no.1 in the league. In 1 or 2 more years he will be the clear cut best for all areas of the ice (As in aggregate).

 

[authentic]

I hope this is a joke. Matthews on ice impact is arguably no.1 in the league. In 1 or 2 more years he will be the clear cut best for all areas of the ice (As in aggregate).

When healthy he's the clearcut best player besides McDavid. People are getting a reminder with his play lately.

 

[Havoc]

When healthy he's the clearcut best player besides McDavid. People are getting a reminder with his play lately.

McDavid can't play D to save his life, that's why I give Matthews the no.1. If you watch McDavid in the playoffs, yes he's exciting and racks up points, but his 200 ft game makes your blood boil. He also resorts to many fly-by moments. My theory is he selectively chooses when to engage on D in order to preserve energy for points.

You will always need to find a selke guy to pair with McDavid whereas Matthews is Patrick Kane and Anze Kopitar in one (maybe doesn't dangle like Kane but you know what I mean). Plus, Matthews is bigger and stronger.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He hasn’t made it work…….yes we are a decent regular season team but we have lost 6 years in a row the first round.

But he has made it work. He has created and maintained a top tier team, through a ton of obstacles. Your issue is that you're relying way too heavily on how many playoff series a team won, with no context, to tell you everything about everything, but the simple fact is that it doesn't carry the representative value about everything that you think it does.

And let's be clear... We've only had this cap allocation for the past 3 years, not 6. So that already presents a problem, because if you're argument is that a team losing 3 times is enough to invalidate a specific team construction, then you would have to similarly declare that it was impossible to win with multiple elite superstars on ELCs. Same logic, but suddenly doesn't seem very rational or convincing, right? But then we run into another problem... We didn't really see this capability of that 50% in the playoffs in 2021, as beyond all of the other injuries, one part of that 50% was immediately injured out of the series.

So basically, your sample to declare an entire method of team construction invalid is 2 series losses by the tiniest of margins... One an abnormal best-of-5 series against the best defensive team in the league getting 0.950+ goaltending, where we played in an empty building during a global pandemic after a 5 month break and lost one of our best defensemen... And the other a series against the back-to-back Cup champions, who got series-altering calls on the brink of elimination in both game 6 and 7. Not exactly overwhelming evidence.

Just for the record this top tier team is 22 points behind Boston and we are .500 our last 10 game. Is that what you really think is top tier. Our co- number one goalie has let in 4 goals in 7 of his last 8 starts, again is that top tier.

Just for the record, Boston is on a generational pace and is 15+ points above everybody, so using them as a measure of how we're doing is pretty misleading. We are a top 5 team on the year. That is top tier. And top-8 team in goals against, FYI.

 

[hullsy47]

And you think the right course of action is to make the team worse by trading the franchise players.

Because there is no realistic way to win a Marner or Matthews trade.

Get educated.

unforunatley for dubas ...goaltending will decide who wins anything this yeaer
murray is lousy .reilly was the cause of the 4th carolina goal ,
these are the mistakes that will cost the leafs bigtime and likley jobs
my wish list if the leafs lose .shanahan cleans house and somehow get marc savard from the windsor spitfires into our organization
the man knows how to coach a high octane offense

 

[ToneDog]

Philly isn't trading Hart unless it's s big overpay.

If they tear it down,, he may not be the goalie of their future. I believe they also have a kid who has been playing well. I am not sure we have the futures that would interest them though.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If the Leafs win the Cup… don’t expect Captain John Tavares to retire soon after.

I do agree that he could sign here for league minimum though… he has already made enough money that whatever families his two sons create over the next 100+ years… the Tavares family will be extremely wealthy from here on.

I would never have expected it but he has told his friends he is gonna retire if he wins a Cup after this contract ends .. he just does not need to keep killing himself every summer to keep up