Hockey Cards

[blankall]

For laughs, open some 1981 Donruss baseball. Not only does the gum bleed well into the middle of the pack of cards, the colors of the cards leech back into the gum, turning it 12 different colors.

Is the gum a different colour? With the OPC stuff, you typically get the light pink gum. Over time, it usually just gets very hard and brittle. It will cause paper loss and stains on the back card but doesn't typically bleed through.

Just did a quick google search, and it looks like the 1981 Donruss cards put the gum in the front (as did a lot of baseball). It also looks like Donruss was using a lot of oil and some kind of darker red dye in their gum. Putting the gum in the front looks to make the whole issue a lot worse, as the gum bleeds into the card, then the dye from the cards bleed into other cards.

This guy posted his gum collection:

My Topps and OPC gum collection

Looks like the gum varies in terms of consistency and colour from year to year. Some years could be worse than others. Looks like the pre-1980 stuff is a lot worse than the later stuff too. Some of that stuff is clearly a redder colour that has turned to oil and bled through multiple cards.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

That's sick.

Went back and bought the other 4 boxes and pulled a Woody Dumart pre Parkie. Now looking all around to see if I can find more. Walmart Carrie's them and apparently some dollar stores. I guess ITG dreamt up those cards in the 90's but never released them and now they slowly disperse in boxes like that. All but one of the auto folks are dead (Howie Meeker is 96, born 1923.....by the by he still autographs stuff you send him). Kind of neat because you can tell from the hand writing they are signed by older folks.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Is the gum a different colour? With the OPC stuff, you typically get the light pink gum. Over time, it usually just gets very hard and brittle. It will cause paper loss and stains on the back card but doesn't typically bleed through.

Just did a quick google search, and it looks like the 1981 Donruss cards put the gum in the front (as did a lot of baseball). It also looks like Donruss was using a lot of oil and some kind of darker red dye in their gum. Putting the gum in the front looks to make the whole issue a lot worse, as the gum bleeds into the card, then the dye from the cards bleed into other cards.

This guy posted his gum collection:

My Topps and OPC gum collection

Looks like the gum varies in terms of consistency and colour from year to year. Some years could be worse than others. Looks like the pre-1980 stuff is a lot worse than the later stuff too. Some of that stuff is clearly a redder colour that has turned to oil and bled through multiple cards.

I have some old opened pack wrappers from the 80's and it's amazing how you can still smell the gum. Takes you back.

 

[Gatorbait19]

are box breaks from Ebay really worth it? it sounds like some people have had a lot of success with them. I've never tried & not sure how it really works... you just bid to receive cards pulled from a specific team right?

It can be a total mixed bag, as @blankall said, it’s gambling. So it’s a big part luck and also part odds. My first real break I hit a case break with a Makar Future Watch Auto Patch and then....bubkis for a long stretch. That really blinded me initially and I thought what was the exception would be the norm.

Ultimately, after finding my footing I do it much less (got into it over the covid winter - or should I say summer), but if I can get it for cheap/good deal (or if I start drinking lol) I’ll get in sometimes.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Oh and maybe the biggest piece of advice I can give - never ever buy into box breaks to target/try and get a certain card or few cards. Thats how you end up dumping a ton of money into breaks and getting nothing/not getting what you want. Just buy the card.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Oh and maybe the biggest piece of advice I can give - never ever buy into box breaks to target/try and get a certain card or few cards. Thats how you end up dumping a ton of money into breaks and getting nothing/not getting what you want. Just buy the card.

Yep. No breaks for me, no hobby wax either. Only the occasional retail blaster once in a while for fun just to rip some packs. I buy the singles I want and know exactly what I'm getting.

It's amazing how many collectors HATE the thought of spending a hundred bucks on a card but seem to have no problem dropping hundreds on random breaks that might get them $50 worth of cards if they're lucky

 

[Gatorbait19]

Yep. No breaks for me, no hobby wax either. Only the occasional retail blaster once in a while for fun just to rip some packs. I buy the singles I want and know exactly what I'm getting.

It's amazing how many collectors HATE the thought of spending a hundred bucks on a card but seem to have no problem dropping hundreds on random breaks that might get them $50 worth of cards if they're lucky

It’s funny because that’s exactly how I feel a lot of times (or at least used to). I don’t want to spend $100-150 on a card because I feel like it’s expensive, yet would have no problem spending $50+ on a break. The thing that gets me is when people buy into breaks for a team where no matter what you pull, it’s not going to cover the amount spent or the best case scenario is making your money back. Someone may have said this earlier, but it feels like the family guy boat scene:

 

[Rorschach]

I live in LA so back when I was neck-deep in collecting hockey cards, I would always get boxes/cases at just a percentage (no more than 20%, usually something like 5%) over cost. I would look at a product and if I was really going to collect it, I would try to get a certain number of cases. For UD base brand, where a single case yields a set of Young Guns, I would try to get 1 to 2 cases...sometimes multiple boxes from the same case, sometimes loose boxes here and there, sometimes an entire sealed case...over a few months.

Other products I liked a lot, I would try to open more than 2 cases, up to 5-6 cases. When you do that, although it may seem boring for a lot of people to see the same base cards over and over again, you start to hit cards that are some of the best hits possible, especially if you choose the product well.

Products like SP Authentic, Ultimate or UD Ice, you can hit some great stuff, especially hardsigned cards, that that are spectacular.

For sub-par products, I open 0 to 6 boxes. Usually if it's bad product and I wound up opening 6 boxes, either I got it for super cheap (below cost) or there was nothing else to buy for several months or it's a product like Black Diamond that is well established but sucked, so I wound up wasting money buying boxes and "learning" and getting a feel for the brand.

 

[blankall]

Yep. No breaks for me, no hobby wax either. Only the occasional retail blaster once in a while for fun just to rip some packs. I buy the singles I want and know exactly what I'm getting.

It's amazing how many collectors HATE the thought of spending a hundred bucks on a card but seem to have no problem dropping hundreds on random breaks that might get them $50 worth of cards if they're lucky

I buy mostly retail on sale. My collection is worth several times more than I paid. I buy Series 1/2, and then grade the young guns. I do my best to sell off the inserts I don't want for small amounts of cash.

As far as breaks go, during 2016/17, M. Tkachuk's stuff wasn't going for much and Gaudreau's stuff had dropped, so I was able to get some great value on breaks.

This year I spent about $250 and probably have about $50 worth of stuff....so yeah it's a gamble. I was trying to get some Buffalo stuff after it dropped and some Chicago stuff before it skyrocketed. Had the worst luck though. I think I hit one Olofsson jersey and not a single Chicago hit. Did randomly go into an ultimate break with the Pens and hit a Malkin /10 black base card, which was my only hit of the year.

So I generally stay away from breaks altogether, but occasionally enter one for entertainment.

However, my bread and butter for collecting is Series 1/2 retail breaks. I send in all my good YGs for grading. You can then trade those for whatever you want. I also find there's good value in Series 1/2 hobby boxes if you buy them right away, as set collectors are always snapping up lots of inserts at the beginning.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Used to collect heavy as a kid. But I was never one to get lucky on packs. The best cards I ever pulled growing up were an Eric Staal luxury suite puck auto rc, a ray bourque trilogy auto, a mario lemieux titanium jersey 1/99, and the one box I bought where I hit a grand slam was a 00-01 Topps Premier Plus box and ended up pulling arguably the 2 best cards you could possibly pull in that set, a Martin Brodeur auto and an Ed Belfoir GU stick card. Odds on pulling the auto were like 1:650 or something like that and the stick was like 1:200 something iirc..But besides that I never got extremely lucky and pulled a card worth multiple hundreds/thousands.

I started a pretty intensive Thomas Vanek PC back in 04 (bought the BAP redemption RC of his) his cup auto patch rc, a score auto /10 and a few other low print run cards but since Vanek peaked in Buffalo and never hit 500 goals and is retired now it ended up being a waste..Sold most of my Vaneks and kept a handful of them.

But with the outrageous prices now a days I have no desire to get back in. Not going to start collecting Eichel or Dahlin and start paying hundreds each for their top cards. Honestly card collecting is worse then scratch offs. Boxes cost obscene amounts and you are more likely to have all your "hits" be worth MAYBE 1/5TH Of the price paid per box. Like I said I have never had amazing luck so I will never be someone who will pull a McDavid or Crosby low run auto etc. Was fun as a kid though but not paying hundreds for a single box to pull garbage and no desire to drop hundreds on singles either.

 

[Boxscore]

Honestly card collecting is worse then scratch offs.

Which is why I collect for the sheer joy of collecting. However, I would never buy a box today--I'd rather hand-pick my vintage cards and buy them already graded and slabbed. Collecting vintage is so much fun--mostly 60's, 70's & 80's--although I recently picked up a couple 1933 Sports Kings cards... a Howie Morenz and Eddie Shore... both graded.

 

[Rorschach]

I buy mostly retail on sale. My collection is worth several times more than I paid. I buy Series 1/2, and then grade the young guns. I do my best to sell off the inserts I don't want for small amounts of cash.

As far as breaks go, during 2016/17, M. Tkachuk's stuff wasn't going for much and Gaudreau's stuff had dropped, so I was able to get some great value on breaks.

This year I spent about $250 and probably have about $50 worth of stuff....so yeah it's a gamble. I was trying to get some Buffalo stuff after it dropped and some Chicago stuff before it skyrocketed. Had the worst luck though. I think I hit one Olofsson jersey and not a single Chicago hit. Did randomly go into an ultimate break with the Pens and hit a Malkin /10 black base card, which was my only hit of the year.

So I generally stay away from breaks altogether, but occasionally enter one for entertainment.

However, my bread and butter for collecting is Series 1/2 retail breaks. I send in all my good YGs for grading. You can then trade those for whatever you want. I also find there's good value in Series 1/2 hobby boxes if you buy them right away, as set collectors are always snapping up lots of inserts at the beginning.

That's a good formula and to be honest, more collectors should do something like what you do, ride UD's best brands/sub-brands to get value. Most, instead, love to gamble. This gambler mentality is probably one of the worst things in card collecting and is what drives companies to make a ton of junk brands...to constantly give "new stuff" for the gamblers to try/sample.

If I was in your shoes, however, I'd mix in hobby boxes at the very beginning of the run and then focus on retail only after hobby becomes too expensive (I'm referring to UD base brand, FYI). That way you have a shot sometimes of the super hits that UD base brand can offer.

 

[Rorschach]

Used to collect heavy as a kid. But I was never one to get lucky on packs. The best cards I ever pulled growing up were an Eric Staal luxury suite puck auto rc, a ray bourque trilogy auto, a mario lemieux titanium jersey 1/99, and the one box I bought where I hit a grand slam was a 00-01 Topps Premier Plus box and ended up pulling arguably the 2 best cards you could possibly pull in that set, a Martin Brodeur auto and an Ed Belfoir GU stick card. Odds on pulling the auto were like 1:650 or something like that and the stick was like 1:200 something iirc..But besides that I never got extremely lucky and pulled a card worth multiple hundreds/thousands.

I started a pretty intensive Thomas Vanek PC back in 04 (bought the BAP redemption RC of his) his cup auto patch rc, a score auto /10 and a few other low print run cards but since Vanek peaked in Buffalo and never hit 500 goals and is retired now it ended up being a waste..Sold most of my Vaneks and kept a handful of them.

But with the outrageous prices now a days I have no desire to get back in. Not going to start collecting Eichel or Dahlin and start paying hundreds each for their top cards. Honestly card collecting is worse then scratch offs. Boxes cost obscene amounts and you are more likely to have all your "hits" be worth MAYBE 1/5TH Of the price paid per box. Like I said I have never had amazing luck so I will never be someone who will pull a McDavid or Crosby low run auto etc. Was fun as a kid though but not paying hundreds for a single box to pull garbage and no desire to drop hundreds on singles either.

In the previous generation, the 90s to early 2000s, player collecting was a big thing. But nowadays with so many brands and so many low-numbered "rare" hits, it can become insanely pricey to collect a player. You could take just one brand, one year, one middle-tier all-star player...not even a rookie year...and all of the cards for that one player could cost thousands. Parallels really make it sick.

Personally I think it's better to collect maybe a team and a couple of key sub-brands and then you can keep it both manageable and very importantly, your collection can keep the majority of its value. For example, you can collect the base Young Guns from UD flagship base brand, and the Future Watch rookies from SP Authentic for the Buffalo Sabres. And strategically you can also wait a year before picking up many of the players so you're picking the cards up when no one else is buying them. Then you can participate in box breaks too for additional fun and just pick your team. Another thing you can do is to hang out in box breaks, watching them, and then maybe contacting the team owner to buy singles off them when they pull something you want.

One nice thing is that UD has made their "top RCs" quite affordable for the lower end ones. The tier ones are expensive, especially The Cup and maybe UD Ice, but the middle and lower RCs like Ultimate, SP Authentic Future Watch, and Young Guns are all affordable.

 

[Rorschach]

Which is why I collect for the sheer joy of collecting. However, I would never buy a box today--I'd rather hand-pick my vintage cards and buy them already graded and slabbed. Collecting vintage is so much fun--mostly 60's, 70's & 80's--although I recently picked up a couple 1933 Sports Kings cards... a Howie Morenz and Eddie Shore... both graded.

I've collected both singles and cracked a TON of packs. For one player I collect, I am power-collecting one of his important /99 rookie cards and I've been able to "collect" more than half the print run (cost me well over $5000). I also, for another player, collected every single RC card for a top player...his The Cup /99 RPA cost me like $1200 alone. Although this can be fun, it's no where near as fun (for me) cracking packs and getting amazing hits.

It's kinda strange, hitting an amazing card from a sealed product, almost always of a player I don't PC, is a bigger feeling than than collecting singles of players I do PC. One player I PC (Personally Collect), Drew Doughty, I have his The Cup card, Programme Of Excellence autographed /10 card for 08-09, 09-10, 10-11 sets in a row. And each is numbered #8/10 to his jersey number in all three years. And yet I only have a mild joy about that special set of cards...my big hits, I remember where I was and even who was around when I opened each one...each comes with a story. Buying singles, I can't remember anything that happened other than I picked it up off eBay so there isn't much of a story.

 

[blankall]

That's a good formula and to be honest, more collectors should do something like what you do, ride UD's best brands/sub-brands to get value. Most, instead, love to gamble. This gambler mentality is probably one of the worst things in card collecting and is what drives companies to make a ton of junk brands...to constantly give "new stuff" for the gamblers to try/sample.

If I was in your shoes, however, I'd mix in hobby boxes at the very beginning of the run and then focus on retail only after hobby becomes too expensive (I'm referring to UD base brand, FYI). That way you have a shot sometimes of the super hits that UD base brand can offer.

I do some hobby right at the beginning too, as you do get some value from the initial set collectors and common inserts actually sell right away.

This year, I even splurged on a hobby box case of S1. I was a little bit disappointed in what I pulled out of it, but did manage to sell about $300-400 of inserts right off the bat, so it wasn't all bad. Pulled 2 Quinn Hughes YGs out of it. At the time I was disappointed because I only pulled 1 Jack, but Quinn ended being the more valuable card.

Don't know if I'll ever buy a case again, but I like to open 3-4 hobby boxes each, plus another 2-3 E-Pack hobby boxes, of S1/S2 every year.

 

[Rorschach]

I do some hobby right at the beginning too, as you do get some value from the initial set collectors and common inserts actually sell right away.

This year, I even splurged on a hobby box case of S1. I was a little bit disappointed in what I pulled out of it, but did manage to sell about $300-400 of inserts right off the bat, so it wasn't all bad. Pulled 2 Quinn Hughes YGs out of it. At the time I was disappointed because I only pulled 1 Jack, but Quinn ended being the more valuable card.

Don't know if I'll ever buy a case again, but I like to open 3-4 hobby boxes each, plus another 2-3 E-Pack hobby boxes, of S1/S2 every year.

I still have all of my triple digit (non-YG) hits I've gotten over the years from hobby...maybe if I have time I'll dig up a sample to post here.

 

[blankall]

I still have all of my triple digit (non-YG) hits I've gotten over the years from hobby...maybe if I have time I'll dig up a sample to post here.

I've had horrible luck through the years with hitting good YG variations. The best so far is a Jon Gibson Exclusives YG. The rest have all been no-name players. I seem to hit a lot of patch variations an acetate cards like Rookie Breakouts and weird HOF acetate cards. I typically sell these off. Also horrible luck with hitting Day with the Cup cards. Only one so far. I hit a lot of retired stars canvas cards though. 2 Gretzkys and a Howe in the last couple of years.

I also hit a lot of really crappy autos in S1/S2. Guys like Domingue, Faska, etc...

Still waiting for that big exclusives/high gloss YG.

 

[Rorschach]

I do some hobby right at the beginning too, as you do get some value from the initial set collectors and common inserts actually sell right away.

This year, I even splurged on a hobby box case of S1. I was a little bit disappointed in what I pulled out of it, but did manage to sell about $300-400 of inserts right off the bat, so it wasn't all bad. Pulled 2 Quinn Hughes YGs out of it. At the time I was disappointed because I only pulled 1 Jack, but Quinn ended being the more valuable card.

Don't know if I'll ever buy a case again, but I like to open 3-4 hobby boxes each, plus another 2-3 E-Pack hobby boxes, of S1/S2 every year.

Separate question for you...I take it you're setting aside the best copies of YGs of the best players and sending them into grading...I don't know if you use PSA or BGS. But one thing I've been thinking about doing is (carefully) cutting open my BGS 9.5 YGs (I have Crosby and Ovechkin) that were graded in 2006 or 2007 and having them re-graded. I think that both BGS and PSA are handing out high grades way more easily than before. And getting a bump on a 05-06 Crosby YG BGS 9.5 to a BGS 10 for such a card could be a difference of thousands.

Have you considered taking any of your BGS graded 9.5 YGs that were graded 5+ years ago and having them re-graded? If you don't feel comfortable busting them out of slabs yourself, you can probably pay PSA to cross them over to PSA 10, hopefully and if you still want to, you can then send BGS the PSA slab and re-cross them over again, hopefully hitting BGS 10 or BGS 10 black label.

 

[Rorschach]

I've had horrible luck through the years with hitting good YG variations. The best so far is a Jon Gibson Exclusives YG. The rest have all been no-name players. I seem to hit a lot of patch variations an acetate cards like Rookie Breakouts and weird HOF acetate cards. I typically sell these off. Also horrible luck with hitting Day with the Cup cards. Only one so far. I hit a lot of retired stars canvas cards though. 2 Gretzkys and a Howe in the last couple of years.

I also hit a lot of really crappy autos in S1/S2. Guys like Domingue, Faska, etc...

Still waiting for that big exclusives/high gloss YG.

I don't have great luck with /100 or HGs too. I do hit them, just never anyone good or one that I PC even for the Kings. I have hit like half a dozen DwtCs. I have hit several patch autos, several multi-swatch jerseys, several printing plates and many sticker autos. My best sticker auto was the Rookie Ink /87 05-06 Sidney Crosby (I hit two Rookie Inks that year, the other one was Milan Jurcina, haha), one of his earliest NHL autos featuring his new 87s-style of signature. Fun times.

 

[blankall]

Separate question for you...I take it you're setting aside the best copies of YGs of the best players and sending them into grading...I don't know if you use PSA or BGS. But one thing I've been thinking about doing is (carefully) cutting open my BGS 9.5 YGs (I have Crosby and Ovechkin) that were graded in 2006 or 2007 and having them re-graded. I think that both BGS and PSA are handing out high grades way more easily than before. And getting a bump on a 05-06 Crosby YG BGS 9.5 to a BGS 10 for such a card could be a difference of thousands.

Have you considered taking any of your BGS graded 9.5 YGs that were graded 5+ years ago and having them re-graded? If you don't feel comfortable busting them out of slabs yourself, you can probably pay PSA to cross them over to PSA 10, hopefully and if you still want to, you can then send BGS the PSA slab and re-cross them over again, hopefully hitting BGS 10 or BGS 10 black label.

I actually think this is a bit of a myth. I've made multiple submissions through the years and not finding it any easier. The quality of cards you get from packs has gone up though. Anything from before 2012 or so, had much lower quality. Corners especially were much worse.

 

[Rorschach]

I actually think this is a bit of a myth. I've made multiple submissions through the years and not finding it any easier. The quality of cards you get from packs has gone up though. Anything from before 2012 or so, had much lower quality. Corners especially were much worse.

That's definitely part of the answer but when you start seeing black label 10s starting in 2018 for 2011 Mike Trout Topps Update when that card has been graded since 2012-2o13, that says something. Both big companies have started having huge wait times for grading ever since they started handing out way more 10s and up, so they keep doing it. Many people are crossing over previously graded cards and getting better grades, plus they are grading older cards and on average are getting higher grades as well. I garnered this info looking both at eBay a bit and getting a huge amount of information from Blowout Cards forum.

 

[Boxscore]

Separate question for you...I take it you're setting aside the best copies of YGs of the best players and sending them into grading...I don't know if you use PSA or BGS. But one thing I've been thinking about doing is (carefully) cutting open my BGS 9.5 YGs (I have Crosby and Ovechkin) that were graded in 2006 or 2007 and having them re-graded. I think that both BGS and PSA are handing out high grades way more easily than before. And getting a bump on a 05-06 Crosby YG BGS 9.5 to a BGS 10 for such a card could be a difference of thousands.

Have you considered taking any of your BGS graded 9.5 YGs that were graded 5+ years ago and having them re-graded? If you don't feel comfortable busting them out of slabs yourself, you can probably pay PSA to cross them over to PSA 10, hopefully and if you still want to, you can then send BGS the PSA slab and re-cross them over again, hopefully hitting BGS 10 or BGS 10 black label.

After sending about 100 cards to PSA and 100 to SGC, I have decided that SGC is the tougher (and more accurate) grader IMO. I also prefer their shiny black capsules and large numbers--very classy looking.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

What do you guys know about KSA grading? I know PSA and BGS are like the top tier.

I have a graded Yzerman rookie from KSA which they've given a 9. Just wondering how that compares? I don't really know shit about grading, I mostly bought it because it was in great condition and the cheapest I've seen it go for.

 

[Boxscore]

What do you guys know about KSA grading? I know PSA and BGS are like the top tier.

I have a graded Yzerman rookie from KSA which they've given a 9. Just wondering how that compares? I don't really know shit about grading, I mostly bought it because it was in great condition and the cheapest I've seen it go for.

PSA and SGC are Coke/Pepsi. KSA is Walmart label soda. Even Beckett is a no-no in the hobby for those who put coin behind their collection.

My advice is this: if you're collecting for the hobby and don't care about resale value, don't bother getting cards graded. Put them in magnetic cases to protect them. But if you care about value--or one day possibly reselling--then go with PSA and SGC.

Like I said, I prefer the look and quality of SGC plus they didn't have to crawl out of the mud after a hobby scandal. PSA is still legit--and Joe Orlando is the real deal--but I prefer SGC. Both are regarded as "industry standard" among collectors. I wouldn't use the other grading companies with a court order.

 

[Rorschach]

After sending about 100 cards to PSA and 100 to SGC, I have decided that SGC is the tougher (and more accurate) grader IMO. I also prefer their shiny black capsules and large numbers--very classy looking.

I don’t look too much at SCG so I will take your word for it. At this point, the two big grading companies have lower their standards to meet i. The middle what collectors demand is. As always with collector demand, it is not at all 100% rational. On one hand they want grading to be tough enough to be accurate. On the other hand, you pay for grading in the hopes your card goes up in value with a highe grade so if there are mistakes but in your favor, you’re happy. So it’s a major conflict of interest, which leads to a conflict of interest by the graders too. Took them a while to figure it out but by being looser in grading, their demand went up man.