Hockey Cards - Part III

[CutOnDime97]

Anyone here subscribe to Card Ladder and if so do you think it's worth the price?

It's cool but I agree with Kris Bryant, not worth it, for me at least. I just use terapeak which is free on ebay.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Series 2 YG checklist looking spicy. I was worried Seider or Raymond would end up in extended.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Series 2 YG checklist looking spicy. I was worried Seider or Raymond would end up in extended.

Seriously did they save anybody for extended?

 

[The Kingslayer]

Seriously did they save anybody for extended?

They shouldnt even have extended lol. Maybe Dylan Holloway ends up in that since he played 45 seconds in Game 4.

 

[Rorschach]

Absolutely agree with the pump and dump aspect. You see so many guys’ cards (especially the YGs, commons and garbage) being sold for silly amounts, and it’s just not sustainable or reasonable.

It happens every year with new crop of rookies and the shiny-new toy syndrome. But if you look at the guys that are more established (and oftentimes better) than those rookies, and they sell for a fraction of what the rookies sell for.

That issue is across all sports though. You see something like a lamelo ball rookie selling for $70k and it just blows your mind. I think the big Zion investors are going to be up shit’s creek without a paddle sooner than later.

The hockey market is obviously small potatoes compared to basketball/football and others, but I do think it’s growing still (along with the sport in general) and there’s avenues to make big money. But as you’ve hit on, you’ve got to be very selective and smart with that (high end rare cup stuff). I think the biggest/most valuable things are the ones that there’s crossover from the collectors of other sports as that’s what they’re familiar with.

Oh and as for psa/grading in general - It’s a scam and always has been. It definitely can add value and prestige (particular the 10s), but it’s not the be all end all, and people need to focus more on actual rarity than grades.

Unfortunately your point is based too much on rationality and thus has no place in the collecting world, which is completely based on emotion as the main dish and logic as a starter soup or salad.

 

[blankall]

Absolutely agree with the pump and dump aspect. You see so many guys’ cards (especially the YGs, commons and garbage) being sold for silly amounts, and it’s just not sustainable or reasonable.

It happens every year with new crop of rookies and the shiny-new toy syndrome. But if you look at the guys that are more established (and oftentimes better) than those rookies, and they sell for a fraction of what the rookies sell for.

That issue is across all sports though. You see something like a lamelo ball rookie selling for $70k and it just blows your mind. I think the big Zion investors are going to be up shit’s creek without a paddle sooner than later.

The hockey market is obviously small potatoes compared to basketball/football and others, but I do think it’s growing still (along with the sport in general) and there’s avenues to make big money. But as you’ve hit on, you’ve got to be very selective and smart with that (high end rare cup stuff). I think the biggest/most valuable things are the ones that there’s crossover from the collectors of other sports as that’s what they’re familiar with.

Oh and as for psa/grading in general - It’s a scam and always has been. It definitely can add value and prestige (particular the 10s), but it’s not the be all end all, and people need to focus more on actual rarity than grades.

The issue with the hype players, is that the ones that actually reach their potential far outsell even their initial hype prices. For example, everyone though people were crazy paying $200-300 for a McDavid YG on release or $80 for a MacKinnon YG...now those prices seem like bargains.

For hockey, it's always the same thing. The hot YGs sell for $70-200 or so. Then they drop in price. Then will either fade into almost nothingness or shoot up in price dramatically. Picking the best rookies to invest in is the trick, and it's a tough one to accomplish. There's a reason why the market sets the prices as they do. In 2013/14, the hottest YGs were: MacKinnon, Galchenyuk, Yakupov, and Huberdeau. Obviously looking back on things now, we can see the vastly different paths these 4 players took. Yakupov and Galchenyuk are worthless. MacKinnon stayed somewhat strong before skyrocketing. Huberdeau tanked, but has now started skyrocketing again.

I don't think it's as simple as rookie cards are a bad investment. In fact, they are the best investment. It's a matter of separating hype and actually picking the good players though. Also market timing. Not all rookies are best to buy right out of the gate.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

They shouldnt even have extended lol. Maybe Dylan Holloway ends up in that since he played 45 seconds in Game 4.

Honestly with such a stacked series 2 I’m really having a hard time thinking they put out extended this year.

Series 2 is probably the best release for UD in a long time. They really should just quit while they’re ahead….but they wont

 

[The Kingslayer]

The issue with the hype players, is that the ones that actually reach their potential far outsell even their initial hype prices. For example, everyone though people were crazy paying $200-300 for a McDavid YG on release or $80 for a MacKinnon YG...now those prices seem like bargains.

For hockey, it's always the same thing. The hot YGs sell for $70-200 or so. Then they drop in price. Then will either fade into almost nothingness or shoot up in price dramatically. Picking the best rookies to invest in is the trick, and it's a tough one to accomplish. There's a reason why the market sets the prices as they do. In 2013/14, the hottest YGs were: MacKinnon, Galchenyuk, Yakupov, and Huberdeau. Obviously looking back on things now, we can see the vastly different paths these 4 players took. Yakupov and Galchenyuk are worthless. MacKinnon stayed somewhat strong before skyrocketing. Huberdeau tanked, but has now started skyrocketing again.

I don't think it's as simple as rookie cards are a bad investment. In fact, they are the best investment. It's a matter of separating hype and actually picking the good players though. Also market timing. Not all rookies are best to buy right out of the gate.

Yah 13-14 is when I got back into hockey cards after a near 10 year hiatus. Mackinnon brought me back. Monahan and Tarasenko were also decent sellers in and around then. Mackinnon was $70-75 for the longest time and even dropped to as low as $50 at one point. I still regret selling my Kucherov's at the time. Sigh. Had them both up for 99 cent starting bid and they both didnt sell the first go round lol took a third time listing for them to sell at that price. FML.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Seriously did they save anybody for extended?

Honestly... not sure how much I care. If they want to make Extended a product with meh rookies in order to keep S1 and S2 at the top, that's fine by me. I'll just continue skipping it and buy the guys I want, if any.

Would actually be kind of cool to have a product in the tier of MVP and OPC but with the chance of getting some YGs that might be worth some money eventually, even if they are longshots.

 

[Muffin]

Yah 13-14 is when I got back into hockey cards after a near 10 year hiatus. Mackinnon brought me back. Monahan and Tarasenko were also decent sellers in and around then. Mackinnon was $70-75 for the longest time and even dropped to as low as $50 at one point. I still regret selling my Kucherov's at the time. Sigh. Had them both up for 99 cent starting bid and they both didnt sell the first go round lol took a third time listing for them to sell at that price. FML.

My biggest regret is still not loading up on MacKinnon during his "low" times. At least I picked up 4 of his FWA for about $100-$150 around that time, wish I picked up his cup RPA for around $1k or so.

I'm really tempted to sell my Makar PC right now to pay for a trip to Denver to watch the finals with the prices they're going up to.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Yah 13-14 is when I got back into hockey cards after a near 10 year hiatus. Mackinnon brought me back. Monahan and Tarasenko were also decent sellers in and around then. Mackinnon was $70-75 for the longest time and even dropped to as low as $50 at one point. I still regret selling my Kucherov's at the time. Sigh. Had them both up for 99 cent starting bid and they both didnt sell the first go round lol took a third time listing for them to sell at that price. FML.

Oh stop.

I sold a trout draft auto for 25 bucks. No sympathy

 

[The Kingslayer]

Oh stop.

I sold a trout draft auto for 25 bucks. No sympathy

Ouch lol I feel a little better now hahah damn

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Ouch lol I feel a little better now hahah damn

My dumbest moves besides the trout;

Selling a Ron Santo psa 9 for 80 bucks

A 84 Topps football Jimbo Covert psa 10 rookie, which is impossible, for 10 bucks. A psa 9 sold for 4 grand a few weeks ago at a show here.

Drai YG for ten, hell most YGs for under ten bucks.

A chrome refractor Lebron rookie BGS 9.5 for a grand

But, I was gifted an auto of the singer Selena for free by an ex gf not thinking it was real then found out it was. I had a Cobain auto that I sold for a lot of money, I bought a case of The Man Who Fell to Earth box and pulled both Bowie autos, so it evens out

 

[Gatorbait19]

Unfortunately your point is based too much on rationality and thus has no place in the collecting world, which is completely based on emotion as the main dish and logic as a starter soup or salad.

It’s true - you can’t necessarily act rationally with irrational actors. But people (and their irrationality) and trends can be predictable. Hindsight is always 20/20, but sometimes you can predict that irrationality and use it to your advantage. Those are the times you’ve got to try and exploit the card market.

 

[Gatorbait19]

The issue with the hype players, is that the ones that actually reach their potential far outsell even their initial hype prices. For example, everyone though people were crazy paying $200-300 for a McDavid YG on release or $80 for a MacKinnon YG...now those prices seem like bargains.

For hockey, it's always the same thing. The hot YGs sell for $70-200 or so. Then they drop in price. Then will either fade into almost nothingness or shoot up in price dramatically. Picking the best rookies to invest in is the trick, and it's a tough one to accomplish. There's a reason why the market sets the prices as they do. In 2013/14, the hottest YGs were: MacKinnon, Galchenyuk, Yakupov, and Huberdeau. Obviously looking back on things now, we can see the vastly different paths these 4 players took. Yakupov and Galchenyuk are worthless. MacKinnon stayed somewhat strong before skyrocketing. Huberdeau tanked, but has now started skyrocketing again.

I don't think it's as simple as rookie cards are a bad investment. In fact, they are the best investment. It's a matter of separating hype and actually picking the good players though. Also market timing. Not all rookies are best to buy right out of the gate.

Agree with almost everything you said. I don’t think rookies are a bad investment necessarily. Rookies can be great investments sometimes and those are generally the ones that could be the most valuable. My issue and concern though is with the common/mass produced rookies.

But just as you said, it’s very dependent on picking the right players (and at the right time). That’s the rub, and it’s not always evident or a guarantee that a guy lives up to the hype. The vast majority of guys are going to bust though (card value wise at least).

I have plenty of rookies but I personally prefer the high end auto patches for HOF guys because they’re generally safer investments and much less volatile. They typically don’t have the ceiling that rookies can have, but their value won’t evaporate overnight.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

My dumbest moves besides the trout;

Selling a Ron Santo psa 9 for 80 bucks

A 84 Topps football Jimbo Covert psa 10 rookie, which is impossible, for 10 bucks. A psa 9 sold for 4 grand a few weeks ago at a show here.

Drai YG for ten, hell most YGs for under ten bucks.

A chrome refractor Lebron rookie BGS 9.5 for a grand

But, I was gifted an auto of the singer Selena for free by an ex gf not thinking it was real then found out it was. I had a Cobain auto that I sold for a lot of money, I bought a case of The Man Who Fell to Earth box and pulled both Bowie autos, so it evens out

My father traded Mantle rookie for empty bottles. Long before cards held value but ouch!

 

[CutOnDime97]

Here's my magnum opus:

 

[Mr Kot]

Here's my magnum opus:

View attachment 557813

Stunningly based

 

[Rorschach]

My biggest regret is still not loading up on MacKinnon during his "low" times. At least I picked up 4 of his FWA for about $100-$150 around that time, wish I picked up his cup RPA for around $1k or so.

I'm really tempted to sell my Makar PC right now to pay for a trip to Denver to watch the finals with the prices they're going up to.

Maybe you should instead pay for the trip and tickets on your credit card. Then sell your Makars in Denver when you get there.

 

[Rorschach]

It’s true - you can’t necessarily act rationally with irrational actors. But people (and their irrationality) and trends can be predictable. Hindsight is always 20/20, but sometimes you can predict that irrationality and use it to your advantage. Those are the times you’ve got to try and exploit the card market.

Exactly and if you’re willing to go that way, you’ll be parting a lot of fools from their money.

My friend who does not collect anything but wants to start a game store, wants me to teach him about trading cards. No new indie game store or comic store can survive for long without knowing how to make money from selling card games like Magic or Pokémon.

My first lesson will be…your biggest weakness is your lack of experience in and love for trading cards. Your biggest strength is also your lack of experience in and love for trading cards.

He’s a Warhammer type of guy. Basically he can’t get hyped out nor will he get high on his own supply. He can get one or two pieces of info on what is good to buy, especially sealed product, and not be tempted to open it because he doesn’t know the cards inside. So he’s the kind of guy who can hold a case of Bowman Chrome Draft/Prospects for a long time because he don’t care…he don’t give a f***. Same with a MTG set like Modern Horizons 2.

 

[Rorschach]

Yah 13-14 is when I got back into hockey cards after a near 10 year hiatus. Mackinnon brought me back. Monahan and Tarasenko were also decent sellers in and around then. Mackinnon was $70-75 for the longest time and even dropped to as low as $50 at one point. I still regret selling my Kucherov's at the time. Sigh. Had them both up for 99 cent starting bid and they both didnt sell the first go round lol took a third time listing for them to sell at that price. FML.

Yeah I would never sell a 5 or less year old YG of a goalie or forward for under $25. Just not worth my time nor worth the risk. One $300 raw Marchand YG could wipe out all the money you received on the other 40 or so junk YGs, not counting the time, effort and headache to sell. There are exceptions of course like if you know the guy went to jail or his rookie year he was already 27yo.

 

[Rorschach]

Agree with almost everything you said. I don’t think rookies are a bad investment necessarily. Rookies can be great investments sometimes and those are generally the ones that could be the most valuable. My issue and concern though is with the common/mass produced rookies.

But just as you said, it’s very dependent on picking the right players (and at the right time). That’s the rub, and it’s not always evident or a guarantee that a guy lives up to the hype. The vast majority of guys are going to bust though (card value wise at least).

I have plenty of rookies but I personally prefer the high end auto patches for HOF guys because they’re generally safer investments and much less volatile. They typically don’t have the ceiling that rookies can have, but their value won’t evaporate overnight.

As someone who has a lot of experience in CCGs and comics, I can tell you it’s not about supply. It’s more about demand. And to have truly great demand, you almost always need to have significant supply to get the market demand going in the first place. In Magic: The Gathering there are tons of triple and quad digit cards that were printed in the hundreds of thousands of copies. The only thing that matters is by how much demand outstrips supply.

Demand can generate scarcity by itself simply by thousands to millions of singles getting locked into collections. When EDH/Commander format became the most popular format, many cards, especially foil cards but just any popular Commander cards used in many decks made 10 cent cards into $20 to $100+ cards because players often build a deck and after tuning, they keep about 90+% of the deck intact while subbing in new cards once in a while that are better.

 

[Rorschach]

My father traded Mantle rookie for empty bottles. Long before cards held value but ouch!

Don’t tell such scary stories so late at night! My inner child is having nightmares. I’ve sold maybe a dozen different collections I personally put together worth $100k+, many of which are worth more than a million today.

 

[OvieGreat8]

Honestly with such a stacked series 2 I’m really having a hard time thinking they put out extended this year.

Series 2 is probably the best release for UD in a long time. They really should just quit while they’re ahead….but they wont

Couple ok rookies and that's about it.
Probably none sell over a $100 in a year.
Detroit players sell terrible for an original 6 team not sure what you guys are so hyped about.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Couple ok rookies and that's about it.
Probably none sell over a $100 in a year.
Detroit players sell terrible for an original 6 team not sure what you guys are so hyped about.

It's a very deep crop of rookies. Why are all card dudes as pessimistic as they come?