Post-Game Talk: Hit em with the 4 like AM34. Leafs lose 4th straight game 7 to Boston: 2-1

[Maple Leaf]

Problem is thart Tre is just a Shanahan's puppet. Not a sane GM would pay 11 mil for 28 year old winger for eight years with career high less than 100 points.

Only 11 mil worth of wingers are Rantanen, Kuch and Panarin. Nylander is good player, but he aint Rantanen.

Overpaying 2 mil every time when star is up for new deal is recipe for disaster.

wasnt shqanyyajhan a griityy player?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

wasnt shqanyyajhan a griityy player?

Yes he was, and he knew what it takes to get to the top.

He has either forgotten or is ignoring all of that as an executive.

 

[Arzak]

your not getting it, it doesnt matter if the cap is or isnt rising for the rest of the league. the idea behind signing Tavares was the cap would continue to rise and make room for future moves, it didnt rise.

Ok

 

[theTTC]

This may be hard to believe, but 2 months is a lot of time with unlimited resources to prep for free agency.

It is also even more time when you consider that he was employed before that and had likely already started to look into free agency.

If you think 2 months is not a lot of time, let me shock you with how much time it takes for deals to happen during the trade deadline.

These comments are simply too vapid, shallow, and untrue to address.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

@BrannigansLaw I am currently in an Uber on the way to Logan Airport and I just saw a tall highway billboard in Bruins colors saying "The Quest Continues."

I kind of almost want to get out of this Uber, run across gridlocked I-93, climb up the tower to the billboard like Spider-Man and jump off.

 

[1specter]

@BrannigansLaw I am currently in an Uber on the way to Logan Airport and I just saw a tall highway billboard in Bruins colors saying "The Quest Continues."

I almost want to get out of this Uber, run across gridlocked I-93, climb up the tower to the billboard like Spider-Man and jump off.

They will be out soon. Florida in 5-6 tops.

 

[JKG33]

SHarks, Ducks, MTL, CBJ have 0 interest in marner. They wont give up high end ELC assets while they are tanking/rebuilding and pay marner 11-12M. Hes a non factor in those markets

Teams that would be interested

Pens
Caps (at lower value to try and get OV 30+ goals and secure the record - would give a 1st + prospect)
Blues
Preds
Utah
Seattle
Stars *potentially depending on if stars lose to knights
Sabres *could be a team after marner at a rental price/valuation

Half those teams would have no interest. Blues already have ultra soft Kyrou. He's not a guy Trotz would target. Utah has lots of talent on the wings. Dallas has no cap space and cares about winning in the playoffs.

I'd love to see him on Pittsburgh or Buffalo

 

[Jojalu]

Did the snot help?

No one is saying the core was good, but the support also was terrible.

We tried to solve our scoring issues with bad players who are tough.

Domi is a skill guy before you mention him, I don't think anyone cares if the skill guys come with "snot", that is a great combo.

I think it helped them play a style that could help them go on a deep run. Wearing down a team is usually helpful in a long series.

For whatever reason the Leafs collectively can never score in big games. No matter who the supporting cast is.

The core scored 50% of the goals again. The pronlem is always the 100% total is never enough.

With so much cap space going to the top 4, you are never going to have guys that are not reclaimation projects, or depth guys on cheaper deals.

Unless our draft picks can come in and make an impact like Knies.

For 8 million, Domi and Bert were fine. They did their job.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hiring a smooth talking 28 year old GM out of Sault Ste Marie with a Brock degree wasn’t hiring one of the best young, sought after executives in the game, it was Brendan Shanahan looking for his Brad Pitt/Jonah Hill moment in Moneyball. Aka a nerd advantage as shortcut to success. Long story short, it didn’t work.

He was 32 when he was hired as GM. He grew up around hockey, playing and working. Became a scout. Got a sports management degree. Became the youngest certified player agent ever. Became the 2nd youngest OHL GM ever. Became assistant NHL GM. Was named as one of the top 30 under 30 in sports. Became interim GM. Became AHL GM and won the cup. He had to be blocked from other teams - including everybody's favourite Colorado - hiring him. Whatever your opinion of him, he was unquestionably one of the best, young, sought-after executives. And it was in no way a rushed decision.

Shanahan wasn't looking for Moneyball or whatever movie narrative you want to insert. He was just looking for a great GM. And long story short, that's what he got, and it did work. Fixed what his predecessor had screwed up, effectively maneuvered through one of the most difficult situations the league had ever seen, gave us some of the best teams this franchise has ever seen, and set up a second wave of youth for the next guy. Calling somebody a nerd because they're smart and have glasses is exactly the kind of thinking that is going to drag this team back into the gutter.

 

[JKG33]

Hiring one of the best, young, sought-after executives as GM wasn't a snap decision. It was planned and set up for multiple years. And it was the best thing this team did in ages. Finally escaping the dinosaur thinking and old boys club that had been dragging this franchise into the gutter for decades. And then in true Leaf fashion, they made a snap emotional decision and ruined it just as we were moving past the pandemic flat cap and the second wave he provided was coming.

This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen on this forum. Yet another playoff failure where the core Dubas built failed to show up and you're doubling down on that idiot yet again??

 

[JKG33]

He was 32 when he was hired as GM. He grew up around hockey, playing and working. Became a scout. Got a sports management degree. Became the youngest certified player agent ever. Became the 2nd youngest OHL GM ever. Became assistant NHL GM. Was named as one of the top 30 under 30 in sports. Became interim GM. Became AHL GM and won the cup. He had to be blocked from other teams - including everybody's favourite Colorado - hiring him. Whatever your opinion of him, he was unquestionably one of the best, young, sought-after executives. And it was in no way a rushed decision.

Shanahan wasn't looking for Moneyball or whatever movie narrative you want to insert. He was just looking for a great GM. And long story short, that's what he got, and it did work. Fixed what his predecessor had screwed up, effectively maneuvered through one of the most difficult situations the league had ever seen, gave us some of the best teams this franchise has ever seen, and set up a second wave of youth for the next guy. Calling somebody a nerd because they're smart and have glasses is exactly the kind of thinking that is going to drag this team back into the gutter.

Ignoring the rest of this post and focusing on the bolded... what evidence could you possibly have to back that up?

Back into the gutter... as if they ever left? Regardless, Lou was the one who pulled them out, all Dubas did was at best tread water for 5 years wasting time and instilling his losing culture

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yet another playoff failure where the core Dubas built

Funny how much this goes back and forth between he had nothing to do with it and he built it, depending on what makes him look worse in the moment.

what evidence could you possibly have to back that up?

Back what up? That he was trying to hire a good GM? That's literally his job.

Back into the gutter... as if they ever left?

Yes, they did.

Regardless, Lou was the one who pulled them out

Lou was the one that almost put them back in it before we even got fully out.

 

[JKG33]

Funny how much this goes back and forth between he had nothing to do with it and he built it, depending on what makes him look worse in the moment.

Lou put the players in place, Dubas built their losing attitude

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lou put the players in place

Lou put almost nothing in place, except negatives. His biggest (and one of his only) positive contributions was standing up and picking an obvious 1st overall.

 

[JKG33]

Lou put almost nothing in place. His biggest contribution is standing up and picking an obvious 1st overall.

So then what exactly did Dubas do if that's what you describe as nothing?

 

[notbias]

I think it helped them play a style that could help them go on a deep run. Wearing down a team is usually helpful in a long series.

For whatever reason the Leafs collectively can never score in big games. No matter who the supporting cast is.

The core scored 50% of the goals again. The pronlem is always the 100% total is never enough.

With so much cap space going to the top 4, you are never going to have guys that are not reclaimation projects, or depth guys on cheaper deals.

Unless our draft picks can come in and make an impact like Knies.

For 8 million, Domi and Bert were fine. They did their job.

Bertuzzi wasn't fine, Domi was.

There is still over 40 million to spend, and we finally have some cheap depth.

The core 4 underperformed, but so did the rest of the team.

I liked the play of less than half the team, even at their cap hits.

Woll saved us from a truly embarrassing series, and now people are acting like this is the right construction of the team, we just need more out of the core 4.

We need more out of the core 4, but we also need support, and there was none, especially out of the back end.

We have another 20 million to spend next year, it wasn't spent well this year, I am curious to see how that goes.

Do we double down and get tougher and less skilled? Will that solve the scoring problem? Do we finally get some offensive D on the backend that can help with transition?

 

[Amadeus]

Lou put almost nothing in place, except negatives. His biggest (and one of his only) positive contributions was standing up and picking an obvious 1st overall.

He traded Carter Verhague for Michael Grabner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So then what exactly did Dubas do if that's what you describe as nothing?

Build a great team. You know, the actual hard work.

 

[notbias]

Lou put the players in place, Dubas built their losing attitude

So, I just want to understand your thought process.

Lou drafted these rockstars and began mentoring them into studs, but his mentorship was so weak, that Dubas undid it all and turned them into losers.

Lou had drafted the right people, so in your timeline, Marner is putting up how many points in the playoffs?

Lou would have turned them into the star-studded, and ultra-successful NYIs that we see today.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[JKG33]

Build a great team. You know, the actual hard work.

You have an odd definition of a "great team." What makes them great? What did he do that contributed to this alleged greatness?

 

[Torontonian]

I don't agree with notbias very much.... but, lacking skill on the blueline has definitely hurt our offense. If you can't move the puck up ice effectively, you cant create offense.

I think that's a result of our poor cap distribution much more than the result of our new GM's decisions.

The way the d-core played was fine in itself, BUT you are 100% correct, you need to bring in d-man that can both stop a cycle and move/pass the puck well. That's what teams like Vegas/Carolina/NYR/Dallas have done really well with.

I thought Brad had the right idea when we signed Klingberg, just didn't work out how he wanted it too. There a few options in the UFA market that can help Toronto in that department though, Skej/Pesce/Walker.

 

[Jojalu]

Bertuzzi wasn't fine, Domi was.

There is still over 40 million to spend, and we finally have some cheap depth.

The core 4 underperformed, but so did the rest of the team.

I liked the play of less than half the team, even at their cap hits.

Woll saved us from a truly embarrassing series, and now people are acting like this is the right construction of the team, we just need more out of the core 4.

We need more out of the core 4, but we also need support, and there was none, especially out of the back end.

We have another 20 million to spend next year, it wasn't spent well this year, I am curious to see how that goes.

Do we double down and get tougher and less skilled? Will that solve the scoring problem? Do we finally get some offensive D on the backend that can help with transition?

Thwy 100% need some more out of the backend on the offensive side.

Bertuzzi to me created havoc, played his heart out and really didn't hurt the Leafs in any way.

If this was year 2-4 of this core, I would tip my hat and think it was a tough series where they just cam up short.

After 8 years all the goodwill is gone.

They managed to tie the Sabres as the only two teams in history across the 4 major sports to make the playoffs 8 years in a row and win only one series. Simply not good enough.

 

[JKG33]

So, I just want to understand your thought process.

Lou drafted these rockstars and began mentoring them into studs, but his mentorship was so weak, that Dubas undid it all and turned them into losers.

Lou had drafted the right people, but Dubas undid it all.

Lou would have turned them into the star-studded, and ultra-successful NYIs that we see today.

Makes perfect sense.

Lou drafted the players, but he was out before their ELCs were even up. Fwiw he was a shit GM here too but was still miles ahead of Dubas. The Isles have been wildly more successful under Lou than the Leafs were under Dubas, with half the talent

Dubas got them while they were still young and impressionable. Instead of keeping Babcock to teach them how to become winners, he caved at their every demand and coddled them into the divas they are now.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You have an odd definition of a "great team."

Odd would be thinking that 111, 113, and franchise-record 115 point teams aren't great teams.

 

[JKG33]

Odd would be thinking that 111, 113, and franchise-record 115 point teams aren't great teams.

Odd would be completely ignoring their playoff performances, where they average less than 4 wins per year