Post-Game Talk: Hit em with the 4 like AM34. Leafs lose 4th straight game 7 to Boston: 2-1

[HamiltonNHL]

If we pay Marner a penny over 9 million this franchise is done for.

I'll root for Willy, AM and Woll, but the team isn't trying to be serious.

Their main focus is money.

If MLSE cared about hockey the Leafs would have their OWN arena and not share the ice with the Raptors so we have to skate on a basketball court year in and year out.

You should also mention Brodie.

I mean this guy was taking up 5 million in capspace and at the start of the season, most would have agreed he was our second best defencemen.

Keefe played him in game 4 and it was a huge failure.

Keefe and Brodie need to go together.

 

[Gallagbi]

You should also mention Brodie.

I mean this guy was taking up 5 million in capspace and at the start of the season, most would have agreed he was our second best defencemen.

Him falling off a cliff where he wasn't even playable at the end really hurt us.

True, I've basically put Brodie out of my mind at this point, but I think he's a little tougher to move than just not signing Kampf/Reaves or predicting Willy/Matthews don't miss time

 

[PromisedLand]

Marner needs to get in Pasta's way to slow him down. Simple as that.

You have no idea how disgusted I am by Marner

Never hated a Leaf more than I do Marner right now. Never takes responsibility, wants all the money and whines like a baby. Absolute disgusting pos

 

[ITM]

So I think a lot of changes are needed for the Leafs to set higher goals than making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. But realistically, none of them are happening, until Brendan Shanahan gets fired. Getting rid of Keefe, does far less than getting rid of Dubas. Dubas was big, but his enabler and protector of the core is still here.

I don't think that's the case. If Shanahan can axe Dubas, Keefe is small potatoes by comparison. I didn't see the logic in retaining Keefe after Salming's Night let alone into another season. But I did see the need to fire Dubas and so did Shanahan and it played out in an unexpected way.

I don't think the optics of our playoffs performance come without Shanahan seeing what needs to be done. The next steps are easy and difficult, and because the gains we have made as a club, and with what Treliving provided, I think Shanahan's window is closing, but it's not imminent.

Treliving as an add and his adds have stayed Shanahan's replacement for now. However, there are obvious hurdles to overcome:

Easy: Firing Keefe, hiring a Cup winning coach that's available and most importantly, interested in coaching Toronto.

Easy: Stripping the C off of Tavares and handing it to Matthews while giving Nylander and Knies an A each. However, I'm on record as saying we should have renegotiated starting with Nylander and have him as our cap bar and the captain. Feels like I was proven right again, but the optics and what not, Matthews should be given the C.

It also might be a way you motivate Tavares to move on. But see below.

Hard: Finding a fit for Tavares and Marner.

If Treliving is a good move, what does it say about Shanahan acquiring him while FINALLY seeing through Dubas?

I remember when Shanahan first came on, he was criticized for moving too slowly. But for those paying attention, his moves were spot on, all the way until he promoted Dubas, but remember...He did so with Lamoriello's public statement firmly in hand, also endorsing the no-brainer move to do so and that some organization would if we didn't.

Chinese finger-trap really, especially with rumblings of Joe Sakic expressing keen interest in Dubas.

If anything, I think Shanahan can be a little too systematic, granular even that seems as much focused on the appearance as the result. I could care less about the former. But, what firing Dubas demonstrated was the kind of dispassionate analysis we need from a President.

I'm willing to see what plays out in the next few months and over the summer. If the obvious moves don't happen, then all's fair.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

You're right, the next thing they're going to say is "the grit players they brought in were useless."

That's how you know whether they actually watched the series or not.

 

[ITM]

You have no idea how disgusted I am by Marner

Never hated a Leaf more than I do Marner right now. Never takes responsibility, wants all the money and whines like a baby. Absolute disgusting pos

And ironically, he's earned that ire.

 

[Superstar]

I don’t blame him there as he was more surprised than anyone to get the puck

And that's the difference between a clutch and non-clutch player...get Marner out of here.

 

[notbias]

None of these names add secondary scoring though.

I would move on from Bert, unless it’s significantly less money.

Keep Domi at a decent hit.

Move Marner for a good puck moving dman hopefully

Hope Woll can play without falling apart

Knies and McMann continue to get better

Should be interesting

Well, it is a combination, for example:

Tarasenko + JVR + Acciari = Bert + Reaves + Holmberg (sent down)

or

Rodrigues + Gustaffson = Klingberg (can keep Bertuzzi if we want)

or

Shattenkirk + Nyquist + OEL = Bert + Reaves

I am not saying these are perfect, but there was depth scoring available.

I am convinced Tre wanted these guys because of their name more than anything else.

We had 20 million to spend and about 15 million was spent poorly.

 

[PromisedLand]

After watching this series play out, what I wish for us is to start developing a f***ing culture. This series you could kind of see our young guys Knies, Holmberg, Benoit, Dewar, Robertson even step out and play really well. The hardships and bad luck would have crippled this team in the past and they would have rolled over and perished in 5. However the way this team battled without Matthews to bring it to 7, that tight defence first hockey they played shows some growth.

Bring in a new coaching staff. Someone who isn't in their first NHL job. Bye Sammy. One big contract has to go. Spend it and other cap space on a 2C, D, and goaltending.

Brad Marchand tells all the young Bruins about what it means to be a Boston Bruin. Well what should it mean to be a Toronto F***king Maple Leaf? We're not there yet.

Pretty much. Gotta do the same next season and keep developing the young studs. While throwing out trash like marner and tavares.

Hopefully Minten and Cowen get in next season and get experience.

IMO Treliving has the right foresight. His interview after the GM's meeting in Florida was pretty telling and quite frankly gave me much hope.

Treliving gotta hold steadfast, be patient, RETOOL, let young studs develop, and then use the Tavares+Marner cap appropriately and go ALL IN until Matthews' is still with the Leafs. After that if Leafs still don't have much success we can blow it the F up and re-start.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Well, what to say...

I must say, even as a card-carrying member of the TNT brigade who wants at least half of this team, plus management nerfed, I was impressed with the fightback in the last three games.

A few players did show quite well, Particularly Knies, Woll, Domi, and even Lybushkin. So, at least there's some stuff to support Matthews and Nylander going forward. The latter two are UFAs, but I'd be bringing them back, hopefully at the right numbers.

However, the biggest issues remain the D and depth, which is really hard to augment given the way this cap has always been used.

At least two of the Tavares, Rielly, and Marner group will very likely need to find pastures anew. I understand the NMC issue, but seriously, you're just spinning your wheels in the mud by not doing something with this group and wasting Matthews' time and contract.

It's that well-known definition of insanity that applies to these guys now, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results and surely now it's time to alter it.

 

[PromisedLand]

Rumour is that Dubas is holding the GM spot in Pittsburgh for Pridham.

There are so many other teams in this league that do not have "Pridham" and they do alright. If Pridham doesn't want to be here then he can GTFO

Chat GPT could do as much or even more than Pridham can when it comes to "Cap Math". Modern Tech is evolved enough. Cap math number crunching isn't rocket science or quantum physics ffs

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You should also mention Brodie.

I mean this guy was taking up 5 million in capspace and at the start of the season, most would have agreed he was our second best defencemen.

Him falling off a cliff where he wasn't even playable at the end really hurt us.

At least we have the GM that saw Tanev as the better option when they were both UFA's working for us instead of Dubas...He was willing to risk signing Tanev with his injury history over Brodie...that says a lot.

 

[socko]

I don't think that's the case. If Shanahan can axe Dubas, Keefe is small potatoes by comparison. I didn't see the logic in retaining Keefe after Salming's Night let alone into another season. But I did see the need to fire Dubas and so did Shanahan and it played out in an unexpected way.

I don't think the optics of our playoffs performance come without Shanahan seeing what needs to be done. The next steps are easy and difficult, and because the gains we have made as a club, and with what Treliving provided, I think Shanahan's window is closing, but it's not imminent.

Treliving as an add and his adds have stayed Shanahan's replacement for now. However, there are obvious hurdles to overcome:

Easy: Firing Keefe, hiring a Cup winning coach that's available and most importantly, interested in coaching Toronto.

Easy: Stripping the C off of Tavares and handing it to Matthews while giving Nylander and Knies an A each. However, I'm on record as saying we should have renegotiated starting with Nylander and have him as our cap bar and the captain. Feels like I was proven right again, but the optics and what not, Matthews should be given the C.

It also might be a way you motivate Tavares to move on. But see below.

Hard: Finding a fit for Tavares and Marner.

If Treliving is a good move, what does it say about Shanahan acquiring him while FINALLY seeing through Dubas?

I remember when Shanahan first came on, he was criticized for moving too slowly. But for those paying attention, his moves were spot on, all the way until he promoted Dubas, but remember...He did so with Lamoriello's public statement firmly in hand, also endorsing the no-brainer move to do so and that some organization would if we didn't.

Chinese finger-trap really, especially with rumblings of Joe Sakic expressing keen interest in Dubas.

If anything, I think Shanahan can be a little too systematic, granular even that seems as much focused on the appearance as the result. I could care less about the former. But, what firing Dubas demonstrated was the kind of dispassionate analysis we need from a President.

I'm willing to see what plays out in the next few months and over the summer. If the obvious moves don't happen, then all's fair.

I think Shanahan fully intended to bring back Dubas until the last minute, when Dubas tried to squeeze out more power for himself at Shanahan's expense, knowing that he had a fallback plan to take the Pittsburgh job if the highly dangerous move didn't work out.

It showed me a lot of things:
Brendan is truly terrible at whatever his job is.
He meddles with the GM
Dubas is much better at business than he is at GM
Can't stand Dubas but have to admire the way he plays the game

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You have no idea how disgusted I am by Marner

Never hated a Leaf more than I do Marner right now. Never takes responsibility, wants all the money and whines like a baby. Absolute disgusting pos

Willy told him to stop crying and play....then Willy went out and backed it up...and Marner wilted....enough said.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I don't think that's the case. If Shanahan can axe Dubas, Keefe is small potatoes by comparison. I didn't see the logic in retaining Keefe after Salming's Night let alone into another season. But I did see the need to fire Dubas and so did Shanahan and it played out in an unexpected way.

I don't think the optics of our playoffs performance come without Shanahan seeing what needs to be done. The next steps are easy and difficult, and because the gains we have made as a club, and with what Treliving provided, I think Shanahan's window is closing, but it's not imminent.

Treliving as an add and his adds have stayed Shanahan's replacement for now. However, there are obvious hurdles to overcome:

Easy: Firing Keefe, hiring a Cup winning coach that's available and most importantly, interested in coaching Toronto.

Easy: Stripping the C off of Tavares and handing it to Matthews while giving Nylander and Knies an A each. However, I'm on record as saying we should have renegotiated starting with Nylander and have him as our cap bar and the captain. Feels like I was proven right again, but the optics and what not, Matthews should be given the C.

It also might be a way you motivate Tavares to move on. But see below.

Hard: Finding a fit for Tavares and Marner.

If Treliving is a good move, what does it say about Shanahan acquiring him while FINALLY seeing through Dubas?

I remember when Shanahan first came on, he was criticized for moving too slowly. But for those paying attention, his moves were spot on, all the way until he promoted Dubas, but remember...He did so with Lamoriello's public statement firmly in hand, also endorsing the no-brainer move to do so and that some organization would if we didn't.

Chinese finger-trap really, especially with rumblings of Joe Sakic expressing keen interest in Dubas.

If anything, I think Shanahan can be a little too systematic, granular even that seems as much focused on the appearance as the result. I could care less about the former. But, what firing Dubas demonstrated was the kind of dispassionate analysis we need from a President.

I'm willing to see what plays out in the next few months and over the summer. If the obvious moves don't happen, then all's fair.

Problem is...Shanny never "saw through Dubas"...he just fired him because Dubas tried a power play for his job and Shanny was in self preservation mode. He would have come back had it not been for the last minute pay raise ask and autonomy that was purported in the media.

 

[Ports]

I agree, terrible take by Hrudey. I didn’t believe him when he said he hates to blame Samsonov, bc it was such a stretch . By the time he knew which way the puck was bouncing off the end boards he had a split second to react and it would have been super close who got to it first or where the puck would have ended up if he had poked it ….incredibly risky in a Game 7 OT. Hrudey would have been the first to say he should have stayed in his net if he had come out and it back fired.

Garbage take and he threw Samsanov under the bus. There were other players on the ice who made no effort on the play. Rielly and Marner both fell asleep and Nylander coasting on the play. That’s why this core group can never win when it counts. No matter how many good, hard working players they bring in. Their core group doesn’t rise to the challenge at critical times.

 

[theTTC]

They had 20 million in cap space in the offseason, if you can't bring in some depth scoring for that, you shouldn't be a GM.

Unbelievable take. Tre got hired two months before preseason. wtf can anyone do? You just say s***.

 

[Ports]

I believe that Dubas is not dumb at all. He was smart enough to convince an entire group of old farts that he had talent. Now, that may not make him a genius but it certainly made him rich.

He convinced one former player who had no experience building a team. And who cares if he’s rich ? Are you his accountant or something ?

 

[Confucius]

Boosh, Benoit and Ed had 23 of 29 hits by the Leafs D. Ed's hit on Pasta and Benoit's hit on Brad were eye popping.

Just cringed at the thought of getting hit and having my eyes pop out.

 

[ITM]

I think Shanahan fully intended to bring back Dubas until the last minute, when Dubas tried to squeeze out more power for himself at Shanahan's expense, knowing that he had a fallback plan to take the Pittsburgh job if the highly dangerous move didn't work out.

It showed me a lot of things:
Brendan is truly terrible at whatever his job is.
He meddles with the GM
Dubas is much better at business than he is at GM
Can't stand Dubas but have to admire the way he plays the game

I don't think that was the case given Shanahan's explanation at the subsequent presser: The seed to move on from Dubas was firmly in the ground when Dubas commented publicly on possible scenarios that didn't include Toronto. It was solidified by subsequent events demonstrated by Dubas and his agent that they were as you note, trying to assume a part of Shanahan's portfolio.

I think the biggest mistake, which again, I don't think was unreasonable or uninformed, was presuming that Matthews and Marner would take appropriate second contracts. I think that was atypical of Shanahan given his attention to detail: Signing Tavares, thinking Matthews and Marner (with McDavid's example out there) would take less.

From there, it's been unnecessary hardship trying to fine tune what has to be restructured and may not be until 2025.

Nobody can accuse us of being impatient.

 

[Confucius]

Tre said this was a show me season, well time to put the kid gloves away and start making difficult decisions………

The decisions are easy to make, now implementing them, well you’d have to be a wizard

 

[Ports]

So instead he does nothing and let's Pastrnak do whatever he wants and put it in the net?

Pasternak should never have been able to skate right across the crease. Rielly should have knocked him on his ass.

 

[Trapper]

And that's the difference between a clutch and non-clutch player...get Marner out of here.

No need to blow it up. I’d move Marner for the right deal and retool around Matthews/Nylander. Re-sign Domi, Knies and Robertson to get bigger roles, find a competent goalie partner for Woll (Boston has Swayman and Ullmark all year). Improve the D and new type of prospects to step in with Marner trade. New coach, PP coach and assistants.

 

[notbias]

Unbelievable take. Tre got hired two months before preseason. wtf can anyone do? You just say s***.

This may be hard to believe, but 2 months is a lot of time with unlimited resources to prep for free agency.

It is also even more time when you consider that he was employed before that and had likely already started to look into free agency.

If you think 2 months is not a lot of time, let me shock you with how much time it takes for deals to happen during the trade deadline.

 

[ToneDog]

Their main focus is money.

If MLSE cared about hockey the Leafs would have their OWN arena and not share the ice with the Raptors so we have to skate on a basketball court year in and year out.



Keefe played him in game 4 and it was a huge failure.

Keefe and Brodie need to go together.

Brodie is a UFA and is as good as gone.