Hindsight - Dubas or Hunter?

[Trapper]

I also don’t know an organization that hires a specific group, Lou/Hunter/Babs, with a specific mindset and approach and radically changes all that approach 3 years in with a critical RFA collection needing contracts.
It’s like I’m building one thing according to architecture plans and then I throw them away and build whatever in the middle.

I don’t care what Bob says or what Button says. It makes no difference to my waiting for the team to succeed.
I’m not calling for Keefe to be fired, I’m not even calling for Dubas to be fired. I’m calling for them to fix it.

Enough of the Petan/Malgin/Kerfoot, if the core is immature, bring in some damn vets who can teach them how to grind it out. You are bringing in 19 and 20 year olds behind immature 22 year olds then. What is that going to teach. You need a group who plays the style/compete to teach these guys.
If you are conceding that this is what we are going to get because of experience/age, then focus the core on learning from a group who plays in the tough games, develop your Sandin/Robertson/new draft picks until the Matthews/Marner lightbulbs of compete click in.
But do something. Something other than making the same excuses of look in the mirror. Then change the damn mirror and have some guys with heart looking back.

 

[Leafs87]

I think Dubas could of worked if Lou was here to handle the big contracts and than ease Dubas into it. His first tasks being the Tavares, Nylander, Matthews and Marner deals was not smart planning imo

 

[Legendary]

I think Dubas could of worked if Lou was here to handle the big contracts and than ease Dubas into it. His first tasks being the Tavares, Nylander, Matthews and Marner deals was not smart planning imo

He may have went off the rails anyway seeing as how staunch he is towards his philosophy, as most progressives are.

 

[Leafs87]

He may have went off the rails anyway seeing as how staunch he is towards his philosophy, as most progressives are.

yeah but either way these threads don’t make sense in hindsight. At the time I did see Dubas as a good option. Had no idea he was so bad at negotiating and such a push over

 

[nuck]

I think Dubas could of worked if Lou was here to handle the big contracts and than ease Dubas into it. His first tasks being the Tavares, Nylander, Matthews and Marner deals was not smart planning imo

Maybe that would have helped. Lou is a bit more "lunch pail" so he might have been able to help create a more balanced lineup. Maybe he gets Babcock more Babcock type players. The contracts are a nuisance, they don't prevent the club from being more competitive. Can this group win? Not a shot at him but can Keefe win with this group? Maybe they need somebody in between a Keefe and a Babs to get the most out of them. Maybe the "big four" isn't workable and they do need to adjust their core.

My fear is that they can miss the playoffs, KD keeps his job, and they dick around like this for another year and go into the next playoffs with all the same weaknesses except maybe another RD. This is KD's lineup and his coach so I don't see him making any major changes. About Hunter though, we don't have a clue what he would have done except there probably wouldn't be a "big four". Likely as not we would be compaining about him for something if he was the one they kept. Dubas is a smart guy and he could make changes if he chose, but I think he is committed to this path. To me the club looks worse than the last two years and unlike in the past, it isn't a lack of talent or assets to work with.

 

[Stephen]

I don’t care what Bob says or what Button says. It makes no difference to my waiting for the team to succeed.
I’m not calling for Keefe to be fired, I’m not even calling for Dubas to be fired. I’m calling for them to fix it.

Enough of the Petan/Malgin/Kerfoot, if the core is immature, bring in some damn vets who can teach them how to grind it out. You are bringing in 19 and 20 year olds behind immature 22 year olds then. What is that going to teach. You need a group who plays the style/compete to teach these guys.
If you are conceding that this is what we are going to get because of experience/age, then focus the core on learning from a group who plays in the tough games, develop your Sandin/Robertson/new draft picks until the Matthews/Marner lightbulbs of compete click in.
But do something. Something other than making the same excuses of look in the mirror. Then change the damn mirror and have some guys with heart looking back.

Agreed.

One of our highest paid Leafs is Mitch Marner. Behind him we have Andreas Johnsson and Alex Kerfoot. And after that we've cycled through Ennis, Moore, Petan, Carcone, Timashov, Brooks, Malgin in and out of the roster, and we have prospects like Abramov, Der-Arguchitsev, Robertson, Abruzzese behind them.

And we haven't even gotten to the collection of 5'9" and under on D.

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm ok with Dubas but he needs to sort this D out soon. Negotiations could be better, trades and drafting solid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I said this on that poll about Dubas over on the main board and I think it applies here.

When he signed Tavares all the Leafs haters said that only happened because he wanted to play in Toronto and he had that planned to do that for 1 year.

However today they say why did Dubas waste $11 million of cap space to sign him? So according to them he doesn't deserve the credit when he signed him, however he should get all the blame when things aren't going well.

That has to be the definition of hypocrisy right?

 

[yubbers]

I said this on that poll about Dubas over on the main board and I think it applies here.

When he signed Tavares all the Leafs haters said that only happened because he wanted to play in Toronto and he had that planned to do that for 1 year.

However today they say why did Dubas waste $11 million of cap space to sign him? So according to them he doesn't deserve the credit when he signed him, however he should get all the blame when things aren't going well.

That has to be the definition of hypocrisy right?

Personally I have never faulted Dubas for signing JT. That's a pretty hard gift to walk away from. Giving him the C was the wrong move imho. But it's almost impossible for a GM to not sign that deal.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Here's a new one from a specific Leafs hater if you know who I mean and on that is Dubas a bad GM poll. He said Dubas should have re-signed Tyler Bozak because he was 5-6 in the shootout in 2018 with a 50% success care rate and 10th all time, even though he ignores that in 2016 he was 1-6 and in 2017 he was 0-3. He thinks that Bozak would have helped Toronto with the shootout in 2019, even though they didn't play in one until their 77th game and went 0-2 last season.

Plus in 2017 Toronto was 1-7 or 1-8 as a team in the shootout and it almost cost them from making the playoffs that year.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Mark Hunter was the obvious choice. Who would you rather have leading the team, the guy who helped build the OHL holy grail London Knights who comes from a rich bloodline of hockey minds or a pencil neck geek who spent his entire life making spreadsheets at Weenie Hut Jr’s proclaiming analytics is how championships are won?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Mark Hunter was the obvious choice. Who would you rather have leading the team, the guy who helped build the OHL holy grail London Knights who comes from a rich bloodline of hockey minds or a pencil neck geek who spent his entire life making spreadsheets at Weenie Hut Jr’s proclaiming analytics is how championships are won?

So how come since leaving Toronto no other NHL teams have wanted to hire Hunter to become their next GM?

 

[SnizzNasty88]

So how come since leaving Toronto no other NHL teams have wanted to hire Hunter to become their next GM?

You’re asking the wrong guy big fella, all I know, is that I’m taking the experienced hockey MAN, not some pencil neck geek who thinks championships are won through advanced stats (SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER EVER BEEN DONE IN HOCKEY).

 

[CelticDruid]

So how come since leaving Toronto no other NHL teams have wanted to hire Hunter to become their next GM?

How many GM's have been fired in the last three years?

Organizations usually hire from within.

 

[LeafsNation75]

How many GM's have been fired in the last three years?

Organizations usually hire from within.

Prior to Dubas officially becoming GM on May 11, 2018 I remember that Carolina hired Don Waddell on May 8, 2018.

After that Detroit hired Steve Yzerman, Minnesota hired Bill Guerin, Philadelphia hired Chuck Fletcher, Tampa Bay hired Julien BriseBois, Edmonton hired Ken Holland, Vegas hired Kelly McCrimmon and Seattle hired Ron Francis.

Among them Carolina hired within since Waddell was the Interim GM, Kelly McCrimmon was promoted since he was their Assistant General Manager and it was the same for Julien BriseBois.

Everyone else was hired from other teams.

 

[CelticDruid]

Prior to Dubas officially becoming GM on May 11, 2018 I remember that Carolina hired Don Waddell on May 8, 2018.

After that Detroit hired Steve Yzerman, Minnesota hired Bill Guerin, Philadelphia hired Chuck Fletcher, Tampa Bay hired Julien BriseBois, Edmonton hired Ken Holland, Vegas hired Kelly McCrimmon and Seattle hired Ron Francis.

A few hired from within their own organizations and a couple with ties to former teams.

Tough to break into the NHL as a GM

 

[EXPECT THE LEAFS]

I think Dubas could of worked if Lou was here to handle the big contracts and than ease Dubas into it. His first tasks being the Tavares, Nylander, Matthews and Marner deals was not smart planning imo

SHANAPLAN

 

[Duke Silver]

You can always tell when someone with a clear axe to grind starts a thread under the guise of impartiality.

 

[LeafsNation75]

A few hired from within their own organizations and a couple with ties to former teams.

Tough to break into the NHL as a GM

Unless Steve Simmons said this to troll with Leafs fans, why did he bother to tweet out when Hunter was free to get another front office job with other NHL teams.

 

[BertCorbeau]

TBH if Lou was here the Leafs would still be in cap trouble because even though he may have signed the big 4 for less (assuming Tavares signs here as well) he likely overpays for bottom 6 veteran depth (i.e. re-signing Komarov and keeping Martin, and like brings Polak back too).

 

[CelticDruid]

It is clear the players are not good enough to me. Do you think this D can play better ? Marincin is crap. Holl is what he is. Barrie has no clue how to play in his end. Lily and Sandin are kids. Muzz is probably fustrated as hell. Dermott has been so-so at best.

All in all, just good enough for a shit stew.

 

[colchar]

We needed a new vision.

How's that working out?

 

[BertCorbeau]

You’re asking the wrong guy big fella, all I know, is that I’m taking the experienced hockey MAN, not some pencil neck geek who thinks championships are won through advanced stats (SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER EVER BEEN DONE IN HOCKEY).

If you think Dubas relies solely on advanced stats you're misinformed.

 

[LeafsNation75]

TBH if Lou was here the Leafs would still be in cap trouble because even though he may have signed the big 4 for less (assuming Tavares signs here as well) he likely overpays for bottom 6 veteran depth (i.e. re-signing Komarov and keeping Martin, and like brings Polak back too).

When it comes to Komarov he was already playing in Toronto before Lou was hired, however that's obviously why he signed him as a UFA in July 2018 for the Islanders and why he also traded for Matt Martin to return with the Islanders, since he signed him to play for the Leafs in July 2016.

 

[Mitchy]

Agreed.

One of our highest paid Leafs is Mitch Marner. Behind him we have Andreas Johnsson and Alex Kerfoot. And after that we've cycled through Ennis, Moore, Petan, Carcone, Timashov, Brooks, Malgin in and out of the roster, and we have prospects like Abramov, Der-Arguchitsev, Robertson, Abruzzese behind them.

And we haven't even gotten to the collection of 5'9" and under on D.

Yeah, such a bad pick that Robertson is! Who cares if he's having the most dominant goal scoring season in years. Should've taken some big plug instead.