OT: HFPens Community Lounge: Or Ogrezilla and LOGiK's Nerd Thread ;)

[Randy Butternubs]

Our poor cat has been losing a lot of weight. She's been to the vet a number of times and her blood work didn't show anything of note. But yesterday she got an ultrasound and they found liver cancer.

At least we know. And they gave her some medicine that should help increase her appetite.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Our poor cat has been losing a lot of weight. She's been to the vet a number of times and her blood work didn't show anything of note. But yesterday she got an ultrasound and they found liver cancer.

At least we know. And they gave her some medicine that should help increase her appetite.

ugh that sucks. So sorry to hear that.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Our poor cat has been losing a lot of weight. She's been to the vet a number of times and her blood work didn't show anything of note. But yesterday she got an ultrasound and they found liver cancer.

At least we know. And they gave her some medicine that should help increase her appetite.

Thats crappy. Sorry to hear that

 

[LOGiK]

Well, I've engaged in new lucrative adventures
So alas, it is high time to retire the ol' beat up machine.... I forget the initial name of the box. I'm old. Although nearly 10 years running and the only thing to die, was... well actually a few things.... two 490x 's ... or one, and coil whined got rid of the second. 780ti died ((((( two ssd's. Still have same everything, surprised really. Good psu.... case took a beating...

It's time for building a new pc, piece-by-piece...
Thinking about doing something middy/high but with a nose for cheap (gpu cheap(er))
Maybe this,

MSI mpg x670E Carbon Wifi m/b
AMD 7950X3D
G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series 64GB (2 x 32GB)

As the brains of the whole operation... ideas?

 

[Zirakzigil]

I'm building a new pc, piece-by-piece...
Thinking about doing something middy/high but with a nose for cheap (gpu cheap(er))
Maybe this,

MSI mpg x670E Carbon Wifi m/b
AMD 7950X3D
G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series 64GB (2 x 32GB)

As the brains of the whole operation... ideas?

I say this as someone who has a 5950, what do you want the PC for? 7800X3D would be better for gaming, 7950X for multitasking. 7950X3D is kinda a no mans land chip. If the windows tasking works properly its great, but you are trusting windows to select the right cores for the job.

Id pick up a previous gen 6000 series for a GPU or a 7900 GRE if you can find out. I bought a 7900XTX on prime days that I love. But if you want to cheaper out Id get an 6700 or 6750.

Also if you really want to cut costs, a 5800X3D would be a lot cheaper of a set up and the performance drop in gaming is minimal.

 

[LOGiK]

I say this as someone who has a 5950, what do you want the PC for? 7800X3D would be better for gaming, 7950X for multitasking. 7950X3D is kinda a no mans land chip. If the windows tasking works properly its great, but you are trusting windows to select the right cores for the job.

Id pick up a previous gen 6000 series for a GPU or a 7900 GRE if you can find out. I bought a 7900XTX on prime days that I love. But if you want to cheaper out Id get an 6700 or 6750.

Also if you really want to cut costs, a 5800X3D would be a lot cheaper of a set up and the performance drop in gaming is minimal.

Well... I game... but I mean....... compared to actual 'gamers' I pretty much retired so to speak.
I have a 2k monitor, I don't even know specs anymore it gets so tedious... let me check,

• 2560 x 1440 WQHD 2K Resolution

So I don't need 4k.
I guess, I will unzip large files here and there. Stream frequently (hard-wired and wifi) unless I re-do a linux style box or windows 7 or something and just use that and vlc for a streaming hub....
I may do that... throw the old box in the basement and turn it into a server for streaming shows / films. UNLESS they want to use it but, they kind of don't use it ... it is more mine pretty much.

I have a 4770k haswell now, It's so old anything new will be faster. Windows 7 used to boot in 12 seconds when I first built this pc... now windows 10 *whiich I may turn loose and switch back to windows 7* takes 10 minutes to boot up

GPU will be my last purchase so I have no real worry there... it will be what I decide in that current moment and state of mind ( still bummed out about the 2060 super and didn't do the 70 super for about 70 d's more )

So yes gaming (I play emulators which is cpu heavy) very rarely AAA games though (maybe will change with new box ( i want alan wake II )) and of course be able to handle video editing / photo shop style programs so... Kind of want a good cpu and NOT INTEL.... So what do you think would be best / middle/ low end for my focus?

ALSO... I have always always always been shy about putting WATER inside a box case.... I never accepted water cooling, but now for longevity preservation + adequate / excess fans and air supply... want this to be cool. Never did it so I am quite nervous about sticking water into a thousand d' or two machine
Did you do water cool cpu? (or has anyone?)

 

[Zirakzigil]

Well... I game... but I mean....... compared to actual 'gamers' I pretty much retired so to speak.
I have a 2k monitor, I don't even know specs anymore it gets so tedious... let me check,

• 2560 x 1440 WQHD 2K Resolution

So I don't need 4k.
I guess, I will unzip large files here and there. Stream frequently (hard-wired and wifi) unless I re-do a linux style box or windows 7 or something and just use that and vlc for a streaming hub....
I may do that... throw the old box in the basement and turn it into a server for streaming shows / films. UNLESS they want to use it but, they kind of don't use it ... it is more mine pretty much.

I have a 4770k haswell now, It's so old anything new will be faster. Windows 7 used to boot in 12 seconds when I first built this pc... now windows 10 *whiich I may turn loose and switch back to windows 7* takes 10 minutes to boot up

GPU will be my last purchase so I have no real worry there... it will be what I decide in that current moment and state of mind ( still bummed out about the 2060 super and didn't do the 70 super for about 70 d's more )

So yes gaming (I play emulators which is cpu heavy) very rarely AAA games though (maybe will change with new box ( i want alan wake II )) and of course be able to handle video editing / photo shop style programs so... Kind of want a good cpu and NOT INTEL.... So what do you think would be best / middle/ low end for my focus?

ALSO... I have always always always been shy about putting WATER inside a box case.... I never accepted water cooling, but now for longevity preservation + adequate / excess fans and air supply... want this to be cool. Never did it so I am quite nervous about sticking water into a thousand d' or two machine
Did you do water cool cpu? (or has anyone?)

I went from a 4770 to a 5950X, huge jump. Just going from an SSD to a m2 drive was nuts. Honestly if you arent pushing high end graphics, Id not go for a 7950X3D, extra cost for no reason. Id go for a 5800XD or a 5950X, if you find a good deal on the CPU, motherboard and ram. Otherwise Id probably go 7800X3D. Youre talking about 5-10% in performance going from 5000 series to 7000 series in gaming, but that is so dependent on the graphics card. Either chip can push a 7900 XTX or a 4090 and you are only talking about FPS differences that you cant even distinguish. Youd find cooling a 5800X3D the easiest, its possible to air cool them. I too was nervous about watercooling, but the AIOs from good brands are pretty fool proof now.

Id look for a good deal. If you can build the 5000 series computer for $100s less thats what I would recommend.

 

[LOGiK]

I went from a 4770 to a 5950X, huge jump. Just going from an SSD to a m2 drive was nuts. Honestly if you arent pushing high end graphics, Id not go for a 7950X3D, extra cost for no reason. Id go for a 5800XD or a 5950X, if you find a good deal on the CPU, motherboard and ram. Otherwise Id probably go 7800X3D. Youre talking about 5-10% in performance going from 5000 series to 7000 series in gaming, but that is so dependent on the graphics card. Either chip can push a 7900 XTX or a 4090 and you are only talking about FPS differences that you cant even distinguish. Youd find cooling a 5800X3D the easiest, its possible to air cool them. I too was nervous about watercooling, but the AIOs from good brands are pretty fool proof now.

Id look for a good deal. If you can build the 5000 series computer for $100s less thats what I would recommend.

Before I even read past that.... but would it not 'future proof' the machine a few years? I'm just short of a new machine a decade kind of guy....... future proof or waste of cash money?

What is an M2??

 

[Zirakzigil]

Before I even read past that.... but would it not 'future proof' the machine a few years? I'm just short of a new machine a decade kind of guy....... future proof or waste of cash money?

What is an M2??

M2 is the new hard drive standard.

7000 series are DDR5, so yes its slightly future proof. But lets be honest, if you are keeping this for 5+ years, you arent going to be using your old motherboard and/or ram. It really depends on your cost. People have been bulding 5800X3D systems for 20-40% less than a 7000X3D system. And Id say for the average person they wont notice the difference between the two systems.

 

[LOGiK]

I went from a 4770 to a 5950X, huge jump. Just going from an SSD to a m2 drive was nuts. Honestly if you arent pushing high end graphics, Id not go for a 7950X3D, extra cost for no reason. Id go for a 5800XD or a 5950X, if you find a good deal on the CPU, motherboard and ram. Otherwise Id probably go 7800X3D. Youre talking about 5-10% in performance going from 5000 series to 7000 series in gaming, but that is so dependent on the graphics card. Either chip can push a 7900 XTX or a 4090 and you are only talking about FPS differences that you cant even distinguish. Youd find cooling a 5800X3D the easiest, its possible to air cool them. I too was nervous about watercooling, but the AIOs from good brands are pretty fool proof now.

Id look for a good deal. If you can build the 5000 series computer for $100s less thats what I would recommend.

Yes, very grounded and astute recommendation. Thanking you.
PC building / buying is a seductive beauty... will lull you into a trance of paying top d's for what you could virtually do without and save heaps. It is so simple to fall into I WANT THE BEST GPU, CPU, SSD ETC ETC and I want EVERY FRAME PER SECOND POSSIBLE.... caring way to much about numbers (unless it's your job to squeeze fps and stuffs =P).... mid range pc's are more than capable especially with tech advancement TEN YEARS IN MY CASE... so....
OH... I remember buying this machine out of infinite funds... it was my getting out of the service gift to me.... (and it still wasn't even top top top of the line (or was it?) but gpu's were reasonable back then....)
Now this time around I can't pick whatever I wanted... will strategically and resourcefully build a middle pack machine.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Yes, very grounded and astute recommendation. Thanking you.
PC building / buying is a seductive beauty... will lull you into a trance of paying top d's for what you could virtually do without and save heaps. It is so simple to fall into I WANT THE BEST GPU, CPU, SSD ETC ETC and I want EVERY FRAME PER SECOND POSSIBLE.... caring way to much about numbers (unless it's your job to squeeze fps and stuffs =P).... mid range pc's are more than capable especially with tech advancement TEN YEARS IN MY CASE... so....
OH... I remember buying this machine out of infinite funds... it was my getting out of the service gift to me.... (and it still wasn't even top top top of the line (or was it?) but gpu's were reasonable back then....)
Now this time around I can't pick whatever I wanted... will strategically and resourcefully build a middle pack machine.

Exactly, easy to get caught up in the allure of the top of the line stuff. But the level below is usually better value and you will only notice the difference in your pocket book.

 

[Zirakzigil]

This would be my recommendation in order:
5800X3D - if found at a good price
5950X - if better priced than a 5800X3D (unlikely)
7800X3D - if price of system is close to the 5800X3D
7950X - if you think you are going to be more into multi threaded programs like video editing

 

[LOGiK]

M2 is the new hard drive standard.

7000 series are DDR5, so yes its slightly future proof. But lets be honest, if you are keeping this for 5+ years, you arent going to be using your old motherboard and/or ram. It really depends on your cost. People have been bulding 5800X3D systems for 20-40% less than a 7000X3D system. And Id say for the average person they wont notice the difference between the two systems.

Yeah... funny story... my dumber than rocks rich kid acquiantance, no friend of mine... was so jealous I bought a new pc -even though it was a year or two down the road- he just had to have a better one (which he couldn't even build himself so the point was moot )
Had to have cost at least 7,000 dollars of which he couldn't get a gaming GPU but a cad / design based GPU so the whole thing was such a snail the way he picked parts... *edit add* I do have to add he built it such so he could get it as a work expense write-off (for which father owned the company) Gamed in 4k and refused to change resolution / downgrade HAHA... just would not hear of his pc not being a gaming box.... what a total moron.
Oh... rambling over coffee... point being, yes you can hardly tell a new mid pc from a top pc... I mean... YOU CAN.... but also you have to look for it or read the numbers kind of deal type of thing....
I have no shame not spending the most and being a proper consumer. I save and use use use until something breaks or wears out. Do not buy for fashion. I am completely content getting performance boosts from current setup while not spending big for no actual reason.

 

[LOGiK]

This would be my recommendation in order:
5800X3D - if found at a good price
5950X - if better priced than a 5800X3D (unlikely)
7800X3D - if price of system is close to the 5800X3D
7950X - if you think you are going to be more into multi threaded programs like video editing

5800x3d - 359$
5950x - 500$ (sale ends in a few hours from 799$)
7800x3d - 400$ (sale from 450)
7950x - 600$ ish

add:
They are all expensive quite honestly =]
No matter what, I expect to pay 400 for a cpu. So...

 

[Zirakzigil]

5800x3d - 359$
5950x - 500$ (sale ends in a few hours from 799$)
7800x3d - 400$ (sale from 450)
7950x - 600$ ish

Okay. Look at motherboard and ram costs. I think the 670 or 650 boards are going to kill you cost wise. Like $200 more for the same board. Ram will be slightly more for DDR5, I believe costs have come down.

670 chipsets are probably significant overkill for what you are doing.

 

[LOGiK]

Okay. Look at motherboard and ram costs. I think the 670 or 650 boards are going to kill you cost wise. Like $200 more for the same board. Ram will be slightly more for DDR5, I believe costs have come down.

670 chipsets are probably significant overkill for what you are doing.

But they are soooooo beautifulllllll!
Okay okay... will revise =]
Is the ram good?

 

[Zirakzigil]

But they are soooooo beautifulllllll!
Okay okay... will revise =]
Is the ram good?

Which ram are you looking at? Honestly almost any 70 chipsets from AMD are overkill unless you are shoving a lot of hard drives into your system. I have a higher end motherboard and I doubt I even remotely stress it.

 

[LOGiK]

Which ram are you looking at? Honestly almost any 70 chipsets from AMD are overkill unless you are shoving a lot of hard drives into your system. I have a higher end motherboard and I doubt I even remotely stress it.

I see an msi 670 at 250$ ...
Now I have a lot to consider... it shows ONE M2 Gen5 slot... and THREE m2 gen4 slots.... I don't even know what that is specifically but I have to look into pci stuff on the m/b

Ram? I was thinking: G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series 64GB (2 x 32GB)
200$ basically...

 

[Zirakzigil]

I see an msi 670 at 250$ ...
Now I have a lot to consider... it shows ONE M2 Gen5 slot... and THREE m2 gen4 slots.... I don't even know what that is specifically but I have to look into pci stuff on the m/b

Ram? I was thinking: G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series 64GB (2 x 32GB)
200$ basically...

Personally not a huge fan of MSI.... But thats me.

Most drives dont fully support PCIe5 yet, and the ones that do are stupidly expensive. PCIe4 is plenty fast enough. G. Skill is good stuff and Id go them or corsair. You need to check on which ram timing is best for a the 7000 series though. You will get a pretty significant slowdown if you are not running the timing at 1:1 or 2:1 to the infinity fabric on the CPU.

 

[LOGiK]

Personally not a huge fan of MSI.... But thats me.

Most drives dont fully support PCIe5 yet, and the ones that do are stupidly expensive. PCIe4 is plenty fast enough. G. Skill is good stuff and Id go them or corsair. You need to check on which ram timing is best for a the 7000 series though. You will get a pretty significant slowdown if you are not running the timing at 1:1 or 2:1 to the infinity fabric on the CPU.

Looks like B650 series m/b for AM5 (150-220$ ish) has all the trimmings with ram speeds and all... I'd have to verify cpu / ram / mb much more closely come time to zero in for a purchase...

Will be buying a piece a month roughly until spring march/april/may when I expect it to be finished.
I can buy straight out but want to go this way, and install bit by bit as it comes in. So case first, cpu or mb first and ram... or I will get those three together.... THEN go from there...

I'll @ you when it comes to that time and run a final kit review by you =]
Thanks for giving me a frame as not to overkill the need and the wallet

 

[Zirakzigil]

Looks like B650 series m/b for AM5 (150-220$ ish) has all the trimmings with ram speeds and all... I'd have to verify cpu / ram / mb much more closely come time to zero in for a purchase...

Will be buying a piece a month roughly until spring march/april/may when I expect it to be finished.
I can buy straight out but want to go this way, and install bit by bit as it comes in. So case first, cpu or mb first and ram... or I will get those three together.... THEN go from there...

I'll @ you when it comes to that time and run a final kit review by you =]
Thanks for giving me a frame as not to overkill the need and the wallet

Anytime! Might get some good deals at black friday for this.

Yeah with the infinity fabric ram timings are crucial. I know the 5000 series its 3733 for the sweet spot, not sure what the 7000 series is.

 

[LOGiK]

Anytime! Might get some good deals at black friday for this.

Yeah with the infinity fabric ram timings are crucial. I know the 5000 series its 3733 for the sweet spot, not sure what the 7000 series is.

Some stuff I never heard of... infinity fabric?
It's been 10 years since I built this one and set the timings and did the bios and oc / tinkering with stuff... I've just kept it on rails for so many years now... forgot about much stuff + new stuff since then.... have to get myself versed in current gear... crazy.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Some stuff I never heard of... infinity fabric?
It's been 10 years since I built this one and set the timings and did the bios and oc / tinkering with stuff... I've just kept it on rails for so many years now... forgot about much stuff + new stuff since then.... have to get myself versed in current gear... crazy.

Infinity fabric is the connection that binds the parts of the CPU together. AMD CPUs now have chiplets. In a 7900x or 7950x there is 2 chiplets with the cores and 1 with the CPU controller. The 7600x and 7700x have 1 core chiplet and 1 CPU controller. AMD APUs are monolithic like Intels, meaning the everything is 1 solid chip. Chiplets allow costs to come down significantly, you can toss whats not working instead of tossing the entire chip out. They are also smaller and therefore you get more per wafer at manufacturing. Anyways. Infinity fabric is the technology that connects all the parts together. It needs the ram to run at the same speed as it or there is massive latency issues. The best is 1:1 or the same timing between the 2. Or you can use faster ram, but you need to run it at twice or three times the speed aka 2:1 3:1 timing. Most ram cant come close to that though.

 

[LOGiK]

Infinity fabric is the connection that binds the parts of the CPU together. AMD CPUs now have chiplets. In a 7900x or 7950x there is 2 chiplets with the cores and 1 with the CPU controller. The 7600x and 7700x have 1 core chiplet and 1 CPU controller. AMD APUs are monolithic like Intels, meaning the everything is 1 solid chip. Chiplets allow costs to come down significantly, you can toss whats not working instead of tossing the entire chip out. They are also smaller and therefore you get more per wafer at manufacturing. Anyways. Infinity fabric is the technology that connects all the parts together. It needs the ram to run at the same speed as it or there is massive latency issues. The best is 1:1 or the same timing between the 2. Or you can use faster ram, but you need to run it at twice or three times the speed aka 2:1 3:1 timing. Most ram cant come close to that though.

Where do you find out what speed a cpu needs its ram to run?
And you set it in the bios as you normally would set the frequency?

 

[Zirakzigil]

Where do you find out what speed a cpu needs its ram to run?
And you set it in the bios as you normally would set the frequency?

Youd set it up in the bios.

Recommended DDR5 Speed for Ryzen 7000 | CORSAIR

Each new generation of desktop PC platforms raises the bar for performance and recommended spec, currently the "sweetspot" for DDR5 on Ryzen 7000 Series is 6000 MT/s.

www.corsair.com

Apparently 6000 is the recommendation for the 7000 series. And youd want as low timings you can find/afford.