HFNYR Top 10 Wingers in Rangers History Preliminary Discussion Thread

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Yeah Bathgate was pretty much single-handedly going up against the great Leafs and Canadiens teams in the first round. You can't really knock his production, it's naturally going to take a hit in a 7 game series against the best team in the league. Bathgate is solidly #2 for me. Gilbert #3. After that, it ebbs and flows.
 
It's amazing what winning championships (or failing to do so) will do to your lasting legacy in New York.

Haha.. true, but I suspect that's largely due to our frequency of winning a Cup being less likely than seeing Haley's comet or an ice age
 
Gartner needs to get some HM. I know it was an offensive era but you can argue he was the one of the franchise's most consistent goal scoring wingers for almost five seasons. He would have hit 40 again in 1994 had Keenan not maintained this stupid grudge against him from the 1987 Canada Cup.

Only NYR winger in history with three straight 40-goal seasons IIRC
 
Mike Gartner

alg-gartner-celebrates-score-jpg.jpg


Tenure:
5 seasons (1990-1994)
208 Wins 150 Losses 50 Ties

Awards and Achievements:
No Stanley Cup Finals Appearances

Scoring
NHL Goals - 5th(1991), 9th(1990)
2 x Top-10 Power Play Goals
2 x Top-10 Short Handed Goals

Rangers Wingers Rankings (Raw Stats)
GP (32nd)
G (12th)
A (29th)
PTS (18th)

Average Season During PRIME (Era Adjusted Stats)
Five Years (1990-1994)
37 Goals
27 Assists
64 Points

Average Season During PEAK (Era Adjusted States)
Three Years (1990-1992)
39 Goals
29 Assists
68 Points

Joe Pelletier
Mike Gartner will always be remembered for his exceptional speed. His technical form was flawless and powerful. He had a great stride with really deep knee bends. His legs pumped like pistons, making him one of the fastest skaters of his time

More often than not Gartner used his speed to create offense. There have been a lot of incredibly fast skaters in the NHL, but very few who could handle the puck and make plays in top gear like Gartner could. He had a nice play where he'd bounce the puck off the nearby boards and then speed around a flatfooted defenseman, as if he was passing to himself. But more often than not he would try driving to the net to unleash a deadly accurate wrist shot or an absolute cannon of a slap shot. If he couldn't get around the defenseman, Gartner would typically zip around the net and try a wrap around attempt.

Mike Gartner
"I had some good memories from the Rangers. We had some good teams, and anytime we played against the Islanders, that was a thrill," said Gartner. "We beat them one year to get in the quarterfinals. I had a lot of my personal milestones in New York. I scored my 500th and 600th goals with the Rangers, and they were always such a quality organization, and made their players feel special especially for events like that, and I maybe in some ways played my best hockey as a Ranger."
 
Bob Nevin

Nevin_B_1118_Ins1.jpg


Tenure:
8 seasons (1964-1971)
257 Wins 234 Losses 93 Ties

Awards and Achievements:
No Stanley Cup Finals Appearances

Scoring
NHL Points - 8th(1966)
NHL Goals - 7th(1966)
1 x Top-10 Power Play Goals
3 x Top-10 Short Handed Goals

Rangers Wingers Rankings (Raw Stats)
GP (11th)
G (14th)
A (15th)
PTS (14th)

Average Season During PRIME (Era Adjusted Stats)
Four Years (1966-1969)
28 Goals
30 Assists
58 Points

Average Season During PEAK (Era Adjusted States)
One Year (1966)
30 Goals
35 Assists
65 Points

Legends of Hockey
Nevin played over seven years in New York and topped the 20-goal mark five times. A respected leader on the ice and in the dressing room, Nevin began a six-year run as team captain in 1965-66.


Joe Pelletier
Nevin, who was one of the earliest players to wear contacts while playing, enjoyed 7 1/2 seasons in New York. He got more ice time and an increased role than he did on the veteran Maple Leafs team. He scored 20 goals in all but one season.

Nevin looked back on his Rangers days with a special fondness.

“Well, initially it was a big shock (to be traded) because I had grown up in Toronto and a lot of the guys on the Leafs I had played junior with and we had a pretty special relationship with all the guys on that Toronto team. And initially when I got the phone call that I had been traded it was a pretty big blow. It took me a while to adjust from living in Toronto to New York. But I got traded in late ’64 and the fall of ’64, the next year, they made me the team captain. So that obviously was a great thrill to be captain of a team in a six-team league. That was a pretty special time for me in my career.â€
 
My top 5 (in alphabetical order):
Bathgate
Cook (Bill)
Gilbert
Graves - I don't believe he's getting enough credit.
Jagr

After that, I'm looking at this group. Did I forget anyone?
Cook (Bun)
Dillon
Fairbairn
Fotiu - shouldn't our lists recognize at least one enforcer?
Gartner
Hadfield
Hedberg
Henry
Hextall
Kovalev
Maloney (Don)
Murdoch
Nevin
Sandstrom
Vickers

The following were cut from my top 20:
Lynn Patrick
Dean Prentice
Grant Warwick
Theoren Fleury
Marian Gaborik
Brian Mullen

...I have to admit I'm debating whether Matteau should be in my top 20...and I'm only half kidding.
 
Graves shouldn't get any more credit than Hextall IMO.
 
Graves set the Rangers single season goal scoring record. Hextall never did. I think that's a pretty big distinction.

Hextall led the league in goals back to back seasons, and points the season after that, was named to the first all star team as top RW in the league those three seasons, and was elected to the hall of fame. Graves never did any of those things. As always, it boils down to what criteria people think is most important, but two great NY Rangers regardless
 
My top 5 (in alphabetical order):
Bathgate
Cook (Bill)
Gilbert
Graves - I don't believe he's getting enough credit.
Jagr

After that, I'm looking at this group. Did I forget anyone?
Cook (Bun)
Dillon
Fairbairn
Fotiu - shouldn't our lists recognize at least one enforcer?
Gartner
Hadfield
Hedberg
Henry
Hextall
Kovalev
Maloney (Don)
Murdoch
Nevin
Sandstrom
Vickers

The following were cut from my top 20:
Lynn Patrick
Dean Prentice
Grant Warwick
Theoren Fleury
Marian Gaborik
Brian Mullen

...I have to admit I'm debating whether Matteau should be in my top 20...and I'm only half kidding.

Regarding Fotiu, my only question would be, if you were considering a guy who somewhat specialized in a certain area, why Fotiu over someone like, say, Jan Erixon? Erixon was superb defensively, is 9th in all-time games played among NYR wings, and 28th in career NYR wing points, 113 ahead of Fotiu. Not trying to be disagreeable, but I am currently considering Erixon in my 15-20 tier so it seemed worth asking.
 
This is about where I'm at right now on my top 20, relatively in order, but subject to change:

Bill Cook
Andy Bathgate
Rod Gilbert
Bryan Hextall
Bun Cook
Cecil Dillon
Lynn Patrick
Jaromir Jagr
Camille Henry
Vic Hadfield

Adam Graves
Steve Vickers
Butch Keeling
Mike Gartner
Andy Hebenton
Marian Gaborik
Alex Shibicky
Dean Prentice
Danny Lewicki
Alex Kovalev
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm very high on Hextall. It turns out the NHL really didn't take a hit from WWII until '45 so Hextall dominated what was actually a fully competitive NHL from '39-'44. I think there is a case to be made for him over Gilbert but I'll save that argument for Round 2.

I want to find a way to squeeze Graves in my Top 10, even though he wasn't the most talented guy on the list. Graves garnered more Hart votes in '94 than any other Ranger. While playing a Selke-level two-way game. To me, it makes sense to squeeze him into my Top 10 over a guy like Camille Henry whose resume looks a lot like Esposito's resume.
 
It's kind of amazing how much Hadfield has been forgotten. When you thing of Hadfield, think of Graves, I always think of them as almost the same player. Amazing how similar their careers were. Both LWs, they each had one outstanding year when they set the team record for goals: one in a year we one the Cup, once in a year we went to the finals. Both were outstanding leaders, Hadfield was captain during the heart of the Francis era. Both had their career cut short by back issues.

Other items about Hadfield: the rage in the mid to late 60s was slap shots taken with wickedly curve sticks: a fad started by Bobby Hull. Hadfield had an amazingly hard shot. He was also an outstanding fighter in an era before enforcers and fights were between guys taking regular shifts.

First line winger, team captain, rough, great forechecker, could score with shot or strenght in front of the net, perfect compliment to finesse linemates Gilbert and Ratelle, 50 goal scorer, he had it all.

Once we get beyond the big 3 of Cook, Bathgate, Gilbert; he belongs in the next grouping.
 
**ADMIN NOTE**

With the holidays, new year, and trade rumors abound, I'm pushing the deadline back. If you are interested in participating in the voting round, please PM me your Top 20 list by January 7th.
 
Hextall led the league in goals back to back seasons, and points the season after that, was named to the first all star team as top RW in the league those three seasons, and was elected to the hall of fame. Graves never did any of those things. As always, it boils down to what criteria people think is most important, but two great NY Rangers regardless

For this exercise, I would be more impressed by Hextall's league leading totals if other Ranger players hadn't exceeded them in the seasons before or after Hextall's. Like you said, it all depends on the criteria each of us values more and I place a large value on Ranger team records.

A couple of general points you've reminded me to mention:

1) We need to remember that there was a much smaller player pool when players like Hextall were being named to All Star teams or leading the league in scoring. There's less competition in a 6 or 7 team league than in a modern day NHL with 22 or 30 teams and gifted players from all over the world being in the league.

2) It's also worth realizing that the HHOF had been very inclusive of players from the Original 6 era. When the HHOF opened up, they were inducting classes of 7, 8 and 9 inductees regularly, even though there was a comparatively small player pool from which they were choosing. The Hall inducted as many as 15 in 1958, 11 in 1961 and 23 in 1963 (although I believe the 63 class was so big because they were honoring pre-NHL players as well as NHL'rs). If you tried to prorate up the amount of inductees from the post-67/68 expansion era, you'd be talking about inducting something like 30 to 40 (or more) players per year. If that were the case, I'm guessing Graves would get in...and so would a good number of other Rangers who will be discussed in these threads, who will never get a sniff of a HHOF induction. As an aside, I'll mention that I'm not arguing for the HHOF to be more inclusive now. I like that it's selective. My point is that they let in too many players from the Original 6 and pre-67/68 expansion era.
 
1) We need to remember that there was a much smaller player pool when players like Hextall were being named to All Star teams or leading the league in scoring. There's less competition in a 6 or 7 team league than in a modern day NHL with 22 or 30 teams and gifted players from all over the world being in the league.

Does size of the league generally affect the quality of players at the top? Hextall was taking Hart Votes and All Star Votes away from guys like Bill Cowley, Toe Blake, Milt Schmidt, Syl Howe, Syl Apps, Lorne Carr, Phil Watson, etc. Would adding more players to the league have made it more difficult for Hextall to attain those votes? I can see the argument in the 1960s- 1980s where there was an abundance of top-level talent behind the Soviet wall. But in the 1930s and early 1940s? I'm not so sure.
 
Last edited:
Regarding Fotiu, my only question would be, if you were considering a guy who somewhat specialized in a certain area, why Fotiu over someone like, say, Jan Erixon? Erixon was superb defensively, is 9th in all-time games played among NYR wings, and 28th in career NYR wing points, 113 ahead of Fotiu. Not trying to be disagreeable, but I am currently considering Erixon in my 15-20 tier so it seemed worth asking.

You bring up a good point with Erixon, although I guess I'd say that I've found an inordinate amount of emphasis put on defense in these All-Time Ranger discussions, so maybe that's why I've not considered Erixon higher. Had he won a Selke, maybe I'd feel differently...but you have given me pause to think and I'll have to give Erixon some further thought.
 
Does size of the league generally affect the quality of players at the top? Hextall was taking Hart Votes and All Star Votes away from guys like Bill Cowley, Toe Blake, Milt Schmidt, Syl Howe, Syl Apps, Lorne Carr, Phil Watson, etc. Would adding more players to the league have made it more difficult for Hextall to attain those votes? I can see the argument in the 1960s- 1980s where there was an abundance of top-level talent abroad in Europe. But in the 1930s and early 1940s? I'm not so sure.

A greater number of opportunities will result in a greater number of accomplishments. If the NHL were a 6 team league last season, Sergei Bobrovsky probably doesn't have the opportunity to win the Vezina.
 
For this exercise, I would be more impressed by Hextall's league leading totals if other Ranger players hadn't exceeded them in the seasons before or after Hextall's. Like you said, it all depends on the criteria each of us values more and I place a large value on Ranger team records.

A couple of general points you've reminded me to mention:

1) We need to remember that there was a much smaller player pool when players like Hextall were being named to All Star teams or leading the league in scoring. There's less competition in a 6 or 7 team league than in a modern day NHL with 22 or 30 teams and gifted players from all over the world being in the league.

If you cut the current league to 6 teams, the same guys are still atop the leader boards. The best players in the league are the best players in the league, adding or subtracting players or teams doesn't really alter that, it inflates or deflates stat totals more than anything else. Consider this... if a guy like Gordie How played with an additional 24 teams, how much more dominant and how many more points would he have scored when he goes from being up against the cream of the crop in 6 teams to a far more diluted league with a ton of marginal players tacked on?
 
A greater number of opportunities will result in a greater number of accomplishments. If the NHL were a 6 team league last season, Sergei Bobrovsky probably doesn't have the opportunity to win the Vezina.

That's true. Conversely, if you cut to six teams right now, you're essentially cutting down to the best 3-4 players from each team. To lead the league in anything three seasons in a row is not easy in those conditions, where you are consistently playing against the best of the best.
 
That's true. Conversely, if you cut to six teams right now, you're essentially cutting down to the best 3-4 players from each team. To lead the league in anything three seasons in a row is not easy in those conditions, where you are consistently playing against the best of the best.

You're not looking at this the right way. Cutting down the current NHL to a 6 team league would NOT leave you with a similar level of competition to the early original 6 era NHL.

What you'd be doing now would be cutting down a larger, more talented talent pool to come up with 6 teams. The Original 6 wasn't drawing from such a developed and talented pool of players. There were less players playing hockey back then and less feeder teams, not to mention lesser training, conditioning and coaching.

I also think you are diminishing how many talented players there are today. Let's look at goal scorers. Over the 3 seasons prior to this one, I took the Top 10 goal scorers from the last 3 seasons from nhl.com’s lists and you want to know how many players appeared on each list? The answer is only 3 players were Top 10 goal scorers for 3 seasons in a row: Stamkos, Couture and Toews. Only 3 players were top 10 in 2 of the 3 seasons – Carter, Staal and Tavares. 15 other players made the Top 10 at least 1 time in 3 years.

When you have a bigger sample size, the top end talent group will be bigger, as will the lowest level, and the biggest group will be the middle level. That happens with any decent sample size.

As for Gordie Howe, if he had to play 82 game seasons and marathon playoff runs, like players do today, he might not have played as long as he did. Regardless, I don't agree that he'd be playing against weaker competition. Let me put it this way, if Howe's team were playing the Bruins he’d be staring at Chara every time he was on the ice. Teams wouldn’t be playing their bottom D pairs or scrub fourth lines against the likes of Howe, he’d most likely be facing top defensive competition, or trying to contain top offensive counterparts on a nightly basis.
 
You're not looking at this the right way. Cutting down the current NHL to a 6 team league would NOT leave you with a similar level of competition to the early original 6 era NHL.

What you'd be doing now would be cutting down a larger, more talented talent pool to come up with 6 teams. The Original 6 wasn't drawing from such a developed and talented pool of players. There were less players playing hockey back then and less feeder teams, not to mention lesser training, conditioning and coaching.

I also think you are diminishing how many talented players there are today. Let's look at goal scorers. Over the 3 seasons prior to this one, I took the Top 10 goal scorers from the last 3 seasons from nhl.com’s lists and you want to know how many players appeared on each list? The answer is only 3 players were Top 10 goal scorers for 3 seasons in a row: Stamkos, Couture and Toews. Only 3 players were top 10 in 2 of the 3 seasons – Carter, Staal and Tavares. 15 other players made the Top 10 at least 1 time in 3 years.

When you have a bigger sample size, the top end talent group will be bigger, as will the lowest level, and the biggest group will be the middle level. That happens with any decent sample size.

As for Gordie Howe, if he had to play 82 game seasons and marathon playoff runs, like players do today, he might not have played as long as he did. Regardless, I don't agree that he'd be playing against weaker competition. Let me put it this way, if Howe's team were playing the Bruins he’d be staring at Chara every time he was on the ice. Teams wouldn’t be playing their bottom D pairs or scrub fourth lines against the likes of Howe, he’d most likely be facing top defensive competition, or trying to contain top offensive counterparts on a nightly basis.

Fine, I'll look at it your way, in which case you'll see almost identical diversity of scoring. Your bolded example doesn't prove much difference between now and then, as the statistical numbers are almost identical when Hextal played. The two years Hextal led in goals, and the season after where he was second in goals, there were only 3 guys who were top 10 in goals all three years (Bryan Hextall, Gordie Drillon, Roy Conacher), only 4 players who were top 10 in two of the three years (Bobby Bauer, Sweeney Schriner, Lynn Patrick, Woody Dumart), and 16 other players made the top 10 only one time in those 3 years. There is essentially the identical level of diversity in scoring, except Bryan Hextall is 1, 1, 2 in goals those three seasons, led the league in assists one season, and was 6th, 2nd and 1st in pts. That's pretty friggin dominant, in a nearly identical diverse pool of goal scorers as the example you just cited. Not to mention Hextall won a Cup in that stretch and led the Rangers in playoff goals that season.

Regarding Gordie Howe, I think you are seriously underestimating him and just how durable and how exceptional he was. For one thing, almost his entire career was 70 game seasons and he barely missed any games. I don't think an extra 12 games a season would have affected him in the least other than him tacking another 200 points to his career totals. Secondly, regardless of era, he still played more NHL regular season games than any other player in NHL history and he played 157 career playoff games. Only Mark Messier has played more NHL career regular season plus playoff games than Gordie Howe. He played a ton of NHL hockey, second most in NHL history, and that was with him playing 6 seasons in the WHA before he returned to the NHL. Then there are the 22 consecutive seasons over 20 goals; 18 70-game seasons where he was over 70 points; and a 44 goal, 59 assist, 103 point season at age 41. Lastly, and this to me is still one of the most insane achievements in NHL history, but he actually played 80 games and scored 41 points in his final NHL season, and he was 52 years old!

The man scored over 100 points in his 40s, and then played 80 games and scored 41 points in his 50s. FFS three fourths of our team can't even hit 40 points and he did it at age 52 lol. The dude was a beast and a very credible argument for the greatest player of all time, totally deserving of the title Mr Hockey. And if you ever meet him in person, one of the most unassuming down to earth people you'll ever encounter. I met him at a card show in the 80s and wanted him to sign a painting I did. He couldn't sign it because of contractual issues and having some agent present or something. Mr Howe felt bad about this, and he actually gave me his home address in Hartford and told me to mail the painting to him. He said he'd sign it and mail it back. He did that and sent me 5 signed 8x10s, too. Class act all the way and an absolute dominant force on the ice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Barring change, my list will closely resemble:


Creme de la creme 1st group: uber/elite
Bill Cook
Andy Bathgate
Rod Gilbert
Bryan Hextall
Bun Cook
Cecil Dillon
Lynn Patrick

la creme 2nd group: superstar or star + class
Mike Gartner
Adam Graves
Jan Erixon
Tony Amonte
Jaromir Jagr
Camille Henry
Vic Hadfield
Steve Vickers

so not chopped liver 3rd group: great to star class
Alex Kovalev
Tomas Sandstrom
Ron Duguay
Ryan Callahan
Dean Prentice

honorable mention: Don Maloney, Jack Egers, Andy Hebenton, Marian Gaborik

further info requested, please, anybody, not just Crease:
Alf Pike Eddie Shack Butch Keeling Alex Shibicky Danny Lewicki Wally Hergesheimer
in the interests of thoroughness and fairness.


My list considers skills, results, tenure, etc.
Some can be moved.
 
Jan Erixon was a good guy and a solid defender but no way near the kind of player guys like Anders Hedberg, Tomas Sandstrom, and Mike Gartner were.
 
Jan Erixon was a good guy and a solid defender but no way near the kind of player guys like Anders Hedberg, Tomas Sandstrom, and Mike Gartner were.

Gave him the edge into group 2 because, off top of my head, he was our greatest shutdown defensive F of all time!!! Like EVER.

But then, not only minimized the like of Lemieux and co, but also, by end of career, was solid like 20ish goals, and not on first line, either.

But it is a personal preference as to my group 2 or 3.
We seem to agree he is top 20.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad