HFJets STH renewal 2019

[sting13]

I'll just throw this out there. Several years ago (I think 2013) I joined the season ticket waiting list, even though I live in Edmonton. The thinking was that it would give me a good excuse to take one of my kids to Winnipeg to visit a couple times per year, and sell off the remaining tickets (hopefully at a profit).

As time has gone by, that no longer seems like a viable plan. Am I correct that people are having problems selling their season tickets reliably online? I know it's no problem to be able to buy single game tickets, so there's no reason from that perspective to need to have season tickets.

If that is so - I now have I think $500 sunk in my wait list account. I'm aware of the principle of "sunk costs", but is it possible to "sell" your wait lost spot (even at a partial loss)?

I have some of the best P6 tickets and I attend most games but the last 2 years I was not able to attend 6 games each year. I could only sell Habs and Pens games. I had 4 games each year listed on Seat Exchange at the lowest price allowed for 2 months and they wouldn't sell. If I were you, I would get off the list.

 

[JetsNut]

I'm not planning on renewing my P6 tickets when my renewal comes up after this season. Life is different now than it was 9 years ago.

I haven't had a ton of trouble selling my P6s on the secondary market, but I'm definitely not getting face value for them.

If you’re getting what you paid and you still desire going to some games, then why wouldn’t you renew? This way you stay in control of the tickets.

 

[tbcwpg]

If you’re getting what you paid and you still desire going to some games, then why wouldn’t you renew? This way you stay in control of the tickets.

The double edged sword of being an account holder in a group is that it's on me if someone drops out. The group is about ready to give them up - my priorities now are such that that money is better off spent elsewhere. Maybe I can break even, if I'm lucky, but I'd rather give them up and pick a game I want to go to here and there.

I'd have to basically find at least two new partners. I'm not invested enough anymore to put in that effort. When I got them, I was living downtown, could walk to the games, limited responsibility. Now I'm in a house with a growing family. Sometimes I'd rather just not go if I have tickets and they don't sell. It's a bit of an obligation now rather than a fun time.

 

[JetsNut]

The double edged sword of being an account holder in a group is that it's on me if someone drops out. The group is about ready to give them up - my priorities now are such that that money is better off spent elsewhere. Maybe I can break even, if I'm lucky, but I'd rather give them up and pick a game I want to go to here and there.

I'd have to basically find at least two new partners. I'm not invested enough anymore to put in that effort. When I got them, I was living downtown, could walk to the games, limited responsibility. Now I'm in a house with a growing family. Sometimes I'd rather just not go if I have tickets and they don't sell. It's a bit of an obligation now rather than a fun time.

Fair enough. You know if you have a registered share partner after 3 years if they want, you can transfer the tickets to their name.

 

[tbcwpg]

Fair enough. You know if you have a registered share partner after 3 years if they want, you can transfer the tickets to their name.

We may do that. I won't be getting tickets to 10 games next season though.

 

[Spock]

If you’re getting what you paid and you still desire going to some games, then why wouldn’t you renew? This way you stay in control of the tickets.

One could argue that not having season tickets gives you equal or more control over attending Jets games. Choosing specific games, different seats, different amounts of seats, and possibly the most important factor is not being stuck going to games you don't want to go. These are all pros of not being a STH.

Not everyone is willing to play the game when it comes to selling undesired tickets. It's a lot of money to spend, repeatedly, on tickets that you're trying to sell because you don't want to go.

 

[tbcwpg]

One could argue that not having season tickets gives you equal or more control over attending Jets games. Choosing specific games, different seats, different amounts of seats, and possibly the most important factor is not being stuck going to games you don't want to go. These are all pros of not being a STH.

Not everyone is willing to play the game when it comes to selling undesired tickets. It's a lot of money to spend, repeatedly, on tickets that you're trying to sell because you don't want to go.

Yeah, the sale of tickets is the toughest part. They will sell, usually, but I have to plan on maybe going to the game so they don't get unused, and the vast majority of the sales I've made have been the day of the game, since a lot of those buys are game day decisions. Then you have to factor in the day of the week, and the month, and even the opponent.

My Tampa game this season didn't sell. I'm glad I went because it was one of the best games I've seen live, but you'd think the league leaders coming in would've garnered some interest, if it wasn't on a Sunday in December at 6pm.

 

[Spock]

Yeah, the sale of tickets is the toughest part. They will sell, usually, but I have to plan on maybe going to the game so they don't get unused, and the vast majority of the sales I've made have been the day of the game, since a lot of those buys are game day decisions. Then you have to factor in the day of the week, and the month, and even the opponent.

My Tampa game this season didn't sell. I'm glad I went because it was one of the best games I've seen live, but you'd think the league leaders coming in would've garnered some interest, if it wasn't on a Sunday in December at 6pm.

For human STH, I imagine hoping you don't have to go to a game, and finding out the day of that you have to or the tickets will go to waste, is not a desirable way to spend money.

 

[tbcwpg]

For human STH, I imagine hoping you don't have to go to a game, and finding out the day of that you have to or the tickets will go to waste, is not a desirable way to spend money.

It's definitely not logical, I'll tell you that.

 

[Sabadecade]

The double edged sword of being an account holder in a group is that it's on me if someone drops out. The group is about ready to give them up - my priorities now are such that that money is better off spent elsewhere. Maybe I can break even, if I'm lucky, but I'd rather give them up and pick a game I want to go to here and there.

I'd have to basically find at least two new partners. I'm not invested enough anymore to put in that effort. When I got them, I was living downtown, could walk to the games, limited responsibility. Now I'm in a house with a growing family. Sometimes I'd rather just not go if I have tickets and they don't sell. It's a bit of an obligation now rather than a fun time.

Yes, as the main account holder, you may be responsible to TN for the main account status. However, you can possibly protect yourself against being completely "on the hook" for the whole if you have a written a reasonable contract with your share partners.

Then again, it sounds like your life priorities changed and it's completely understandable that you relinquish as your seats, especially since it sounds like others in your group have chosen to do so as well. You're share partners are well within their rights to bow out at the end of a term and neither they or you should not feel any guilt for doing so, it's not your responsibility to sell season tickets.

One could argue that not having season tickets gives you equal or more control over attending Jets games. Choosing specific games, different seats, different amounts of seats, and possibly the most important factor is not being stuck going to games you don't want to go. These are all pros of not being a STH.

Not everyone is willing to play the game when it comes to selling undesired tickets. It's a lot of money to spend, repeatedly, on tickets that you're trying to sell because you don't want to go.

Therein lies the key... even as an STH, you must confidently remain a "buyer", unless you enjoy the thrill of being a "seller". That means having confidence in your group that the tickets are all spoken for and your share is comfortable for you. By comfortable, I mean, easily affordable to the point where you can still afford to buy more, if you wanted to.

Nowadays, as a non-STH you may have the luxury of cherry picking games, seats you sit in and the price you pay for them. This wasn't the case in the beginning. There is less reason to be a STH, which is why I think TN will have to step up their STH benefits game, which I think they will. The pendulum is swinging back a little towards the consumer. Just like many other investments, there are ups and downs. Good things come to those who wait.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Nowadays, as a non-STH you may have the luxury of cherry picking games, seats you sit in and the price you pay for them. This wasn't the case in the beginning. There is less reason to be a STH, which is why I think TN will have to step up their STH benefits game, which I think they will.

I agree with the bolded statement. Other than paying STH prices per game, there are probably more advantages to going to Jet games as a non-season ticket holder at this point. And I don't see True North giving more to STH unless there is a real threat (such as a dangerously low waiting list).

 

[Sabadecade]

We are at the cusp of this moment, IMHO.

 

[mondo3]

Whenever I checked for tickets, they seemed to be at least 50% higher than our season ticket cost.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Whenever I checked for tickets, they seemed to be at least 50% higher than our season ticket cost.

There is a mark up, and considerable fees if you go through Seat Exchange or something along those lines. Fortunately, I have a work buddy who sat directly beside me who said that he will sell me some games for STH prices. Then there's Kijiji, where you can always find cheap tickets.

 

[tbcwpg]

Whenever I checked for tickets, they seemed to be at least 50% higher than our season ticket cost.

That is likely true, depending on your price level.

I'd rather pay a bit more for 2 games, because it's still less than buying 10 up front and having to hope the rest sell.

 

[Sabadecade]

Fortunately, I have a work buddy who sat directly beside me who said that he will sell me some games for STH prices. Then there's Kijiji, where you can always find cheap tickets.

It's interesting he said that...

He's an STH that, while shouldering the risk of the TPA with TN, has no problem selling you games to you at cost. Seems like exactly the type of deal that the STH who are not renewing are complaining about. Perhaps it's mutually beneficial for both of you, then it's good.

However, I feel as though you've essentially become a share partner of his with less power than an actual share partner. Sure, there's no term commitment and you might get to cherry pick games, but it's unlikely you'll get all the games you want, you might even end up getting the games you didn't want as an actual STH or share partner. You can maybe counteract this by having the luxury of being able to cherry pick games from multiple sources (kijiji, etc.). However, that may require just as much effort and networking as selling games you desired less as an STH or share partner.

Your net gain/loss seems negligible.
Having said that, it does fall in line with one of my beliefs, which is to feel like you remain a "buyer". It does allow for more of a "positive" feeling around things.

In the end, it's really all as 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.
Go with what makes you most comfortable.

I'd rather pay a bit more for 2 games, because it's still less than buying 10 up front and having to hope the rest sell.

Yes, quality over quantity.

 

[DannyGallivan]

It's interesting he said that...

He's an STH that, while shouldering the risk of the TPA with TN, has no problem selling you games to you at cost. Seems like exactly the type of deal that the STH who are not renewing are complaining about. Perhaps it's mutually beneficial for both of you, then it's good.

However, I feel as though you've essentially become a share partner of his with less power than an actual share partner. Sure, there's no term commitment and you might get to cherry pick games, but it's unlikely you'll get all the games you want, you might even end up getting the games you didn't want as an actual STH or share partner. You can maybe counteract this by having the luxury of being able to cherry pick games from multiple sources (kijiji, etc.). However, that may require just as much effort and networking as selling games you desired less as an STH or share partner.

Your net gain/loss seems negligible.
Having said that, it does fall in line with one of my beliefs, which is to feel like you remain a "buyer". It does allow for more of a "positive" feeling around things.

In the end, it's really all as 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.
Go with what makes you most comfortable.



Yes, quality over quantity.

Essentially, I'll be taking about three games from him to take my kid... all afternoon games if possible.

 

[Sabadecade]

Great! Sounds like a complementary deal.

Just the kind of share partner I like to have... one that prefers the games I don't.

 

[Gm0ney]

Great! Sounds like a complementary deal.

Just the kind of share partner I like to have... one that prefers the games I don't.

Gotta love that guy that snaps up all the Sunday afternoon games at the ticket draft so he can take his kids...

 

[drumzan]

Is the primary STH able to transfer to one of the other share partners in the middle of a contract term? Or do you have to wait until the renewal year?

 

[Spock]

Adding STH perks is one thing, but barring a significant economic spike, increasing the price by 5% every year will have to stop at some point.

 

[blues10]

Is the primary STH able to transfer to one of the other share partners in the middle of a contract term? Or do you have to wait until the renewal year?

I believe you can transfer anytime to a share partner of 3 + years. There is a fee involved and I assume TNSE would make you sign a new TPA at that point in time but could be wrong.

 

[Jets2point0]

BTW, just reviewed my Ticket Purchase Agreement and paragraph 10 reads as follows:

10. Default. In the event of default or failure by the Primary Account Holder to comply with the terms and conditions of this Agreement
(including, but not limited to, payment for Tickets, breach of the assignment, transfer and resale provisions, or breach of the
Winnipeg Jets Fan Code of Conduct), the Team shall be entitled to all rights available at law or in equity including, but not limited
to: (i) the termination of this Agreement, the Account and all Tickets whether for future Home Games or playoff games (revoking
the personal license represented thereby), without compensation to the Primary Account Holder; (ii) the right to resell any revoked
Tickets; (iii) retaining the Deposit referred to herein; (iv) retaining all amounts paid to the Team for such Tickets; and/or (v) the
commencement of legal action for any outstanding amounts owing for the remainder of the Term as well as for any other damages
the Team may suffer. No failure or delay by the Team in the exercise of any remedy provided for in this Agreement shall be
construed to constitute a forfeiture or waiver thereof or of any other right or remedy available to the Team.

Sounds to me that they might sue me for the balance on my term if I let my account go into default by not selecting a payment plan by April 5, 2019.

Yes, it’s a contract. They have the right to sue and should sue for the amount owing. Imagine if the team started struggling and claimed ‘changes in personal financial situation’ and defaulted knowing they would just lose their deposit.

It’s a legal contract that you signed, you owe the duration of your term

 

[Sabadecade]

Adding STH perks is one thing, but barring a significant economic spike, increasing the price by 5% every year will have to stop at some point.

There's that "5% every year" again... "I don't think it means what you think it means"

Correct me if I'm wrong but, from what I understand, this 5% increase appears to be a one time adjustment they made in 2016. Anyone still in a TPA still got a max 3% increase until they renewed for another term. After which they faced the one time 5% increase, then they were locked down to a max of 3% again for the duration of their next term. From what I understand, many people have already been paying this 5% increase if they renewed a TPA after the end of the 2015-16 season. It's actually "old" news. It just new for those last few who were protected from it (via a 3% TPA maximum) until now.

I personally benefited from this "cost avoidance" as one of the STH who signed a 5 year term before the end of the 2015-16 season. A couple of months later I would have had to pay 5% more for the same seats.

I can totally see TN doing this on purpose as a way to increase prices outside of the existing TPAs. This way the prices are higher for any new TPAs and the price goes up earlier for lower term TPA renewals. Now, how sustainable are the increases? We'll have to wait and see.

Like Spock said, they'll have to level off at some point, at least down to the actual rate of inflation.

 

[Sabadecade]

Yes, it’s a contract. They have the right to sue and should sue for the amount owing. Imagine if the team started struggling and claimed ‘changes in personal financial situation’ and defaulted knowing they would just lose their deposit.

It’s a legal contract that you signed, you owe the duration of your term

Like others have said, TN also has the duty to mitigate their losses. It's up to them to find someone else to take the seats that were given up. If they find someone to take the seats in question, they can't sue for losses as they have incurred none. But they would get to keep your deposit regardless.

So, if you're going to default, do it now as the wait list is shrinking and people lining up to take your seats are getting less. ***Not legal advice***

I wonder if they could argue your specific seat numbers were not taken, if they would win their case to sue you?