GDT: HFBoards GDT | 04/05/2015

[IvanMalison]

Wrong. By that logic the Pens control their own destiny too, since they play the Sens. You can't have it both ways. "Control their destiny" means their playoff chances don't hinge on their competitor's (Pittsburgh) play, which is not the case here. It doesn't make sense to say both teams "control their destiny" in fighting for a single spot.

What? This is crazy reasoning. Your assumption that it is impossible for two teams to control their own destiny is faulty.

Controlling your own destiny means that if you play completely perfectly you can obtain the desired outcome.

Imagine that there is one game left in the season between two teams fighting for a final playoff spot -- Are you really going to try to argue that neither of those teams controls their own destiny?

 

[LEIFey]

I'm mad about that game and I'm not even a Penguins fan. The Penguins far and away outplayed the Flyers but for whatever reason just couldn't get one by Mason and the Flyers skate out away with the 4-1 win.

That sucks.

Hot goalies happen. Steve Mason is massively underrated and has been a workhorse for us.

 

[playasRus]

What? This is crazy reasoning. Your assumption that it is impossible for two teams to control their own destiny is faulty.

Controlling your own destiny means that if you play completely perfectly you can obtain the desired outcome.

Imagine that there is one game left in the season between two teams fighting for a final playoff spot -- Are you really going to try to argue that neither of those teams controls their own destiny?

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

 

[SpezDispenser]

For some reason 28 teams in this league bat Toronto around like a cat with a ball of strong, but Ottawa has huge problems. I'm nervous.

 

[playasRus]

For some reason 28 teams in this league bat Toronto around like a cat with a ball of strong, but Ottawa has huge problems. I'm nervous.

Ottawa playing their version of the Flyers to the Penguins.

 

[Semantics]

You're right, the same can be said for the Pens.. but when the two teams play each other, the Sens control the fact that if they win the game in regulation, they pass them..

But the Sens don't control that fact, since Pittsburgh is playing in the same game. In game theory, to "control your destiny" would mean your win conditions are independent of anything your opponent does, i.e. for every move your opponent makes you still have a winning strategy. Definitely NOT true in this case. It would be more accurate to say that neither team controls their own destiny.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'm mad about that game and I'm not even a Penguins fan. The Penguins far and away outplayed the Flyers but for whatever reason just couldn't get one by Mason and the Flyers skate out away with the 4-1 win.

That sucks.

The reason is that Mason is a lot better than people have been giving him credit for. He's been playing like that pretty much since joining the Flyers. Although this year has probably been his best.

 

[The Expert]

But the Sens don't control that fact, since Pittsburgh is playing in the same game. In game theory, to "control your destiny" would mean your win conditions are independent of anything your opponent does, i.e. for every move your opponent makes you still have a winning strategy. Definitely NOT true in this case.

All you have proven is that you have no idea what controlling your own destiny means.

I'm not sure how this is possible but you're confusing controlling your own destiny with clinching a playoff spot. Both teams control their own destiny. Read the following post, specifically the middle line:

What? This is crazy reasoning. Your assumption that it is impossible for two teams to control their own destiny is faulty.

Controlling your own destiny means that if you play completely perfectly you can obtain the desired outcome.

Imagine that there is one game left in the season between two teams fighting for a final playoff spot -- Are you really going to try to argue that neither of those teams controls their own destiny?

 

[JFG]

But the Sens don't control that fact, since Pittsburgh is playing in the same game. In game theory, to "control your destiny" would mean your win conditions are independent of anything your opponent does, i.e. for every move your opponent makes you still have a winning strategy. Definitely NOT true in this case. It would be more accurate to say that neither team controls their own destiny.

The Sens are no longer needing other teams to win for them. Therefore they now control their own destiny.

 

[Hire Sather]

But the Sens don't control that fact, since Pittsburgh is playing in the same game. In game theory, to "control your destiny" would mean your win conditions are independent of anything your opponent does. Emphatically NOT true in this case.

You aren't understanding the concept of what it means. It means that they don't need any help outside of their own games. They don't need another team to beat the Pens or take a point from the Pens to pass them.

How do they not control it because the Pens play in the same game? Beating the Pens is in their control.. if they beat them in regulation that is their doing.. they don't need help from other teams.. the fact that the Pens are capable of winning the game too doesn't mean anything to the point that the Sens control their destiny.

 

[Semantics]

All you have proven is that you have no idea what controlling your own destiny means.

I'm not sure how this is possible but you're confusing controlling your own destiny with clinching a playoff spot. Both teams control their own destiny.

Wrong again. Clinching a playoff spot means you're in no matter what moves you make, i.e. you can make the worst moves possible (lose every game), and attain the winning outcome. That's *completely* different from what I described.

You might want to go back and reread some of these posts carefully, and maybe read a little game theory.

 

[Semantics]

The Sens are no longer needing other teams to win for them. Therefore they now control their own destiny.

Neither do the Pens. But it's not logical to say that both teams are in control of a single playoff spot.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Neither do the Pens. But it's not logical to say that both teams are in control of a single playoff spot.

Yes it is. They play each other to control that spot.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Neither do the Pens. But it's not logical to say that both teams are in control of a single playoff spot.

Wait...what?

 

[blinds]

The Sens certainly do control their own destiny which just means that if they do everything right they can make the playoffs. It doesn't matter how games go that they're not involved (which, if they did matter, would take control away from). That's all it means.

 

[Hire Sather]

Wrong again. Clinching a playoff spot means you're in no matter what moves you make, i.e. you can make the worst moves possible (lose every game), and attain the winning outcome. That's *completely* different from what I described.

You might want to go back and reread some of these posts carefully, and maybe read a little game theory.

Look. You are so wrong here I find it hard to believe you are being serious.

When a team can win THEIR OWN GAMES (whether it be in regulation, OT, SO, doesn't matter) the fact is if THEY win all THEIR GAMES with the Pens game being won in regulation, they will finish ahead of Pittsburgh no matter what.

Its not hard to grasp, and I hope you are not being serious with this stuff.

Like, ok. You have to be trying to play up to your "Semantics" name here but you don't even have a clever point. Theres no semantics even at play here. The Sens are 100% in control. As are the Pens.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Neither do the Pens. But it's not logical to say that both teams are in control of a single playoff spot.

Oh Em Gee. Just admit you are wrong and stop spewing the same nonsense. If the Senators win all their remaining games they are a playoff team, so they by definition "CONTROL" whether they will make the playoffs or not as they are in "CONTROL" of whether they win games or not. If the Penguins win their games they are a playoff team, because they are in "CONTROL" of whether they win or not.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I've learned in this thread that no one controls their own destiny ever. If it's game 7 of the playoffs neither team controls their own destiny.

 

[Jack Straw]

Wrong again. Clinching a playoff spot means you're in no matter what moves you make, i.e. you can make the worst moves possible (lose every game), and attain the winning outcome. That's *completely* different from what I described.

You might want to go back and reread some of these posts carefully, and maybe read a little game theory.

They're right and you're wrong. This isn't game theory. In sports, controlling your own destiny means that you do not need help from other teams. Win and you're in. In this case, because of the OT point, "win" means win in regulation. Ottawa does not need help from other teams (as of right now). Neither does Pittsburgh. Both control their own destiny. You can argue game theory all you want, that's not what it means in a pennant race (or playoff chase).

 

[blinds]

I've learned in this thread that no one controls their own destiny ever. If it's game 7 of the playoffs neither team controls their own destiny.

They might as well just flip a coin, they clearly have no control over the game.

 

[Semantics]

Yes it is. They play each other to control that spot.

And so only the winner is in control of the spot. They're not both in control of it.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

And so only the winner is in control of the spot. They're not both in control of it.

They're both in control of the game they play vs. each other.

Welp I'm glad I am wasting my Sunday by even talk about this nonsense. I need to go outside.

 

[Chardo]

I'm mad about that game and I'm not even a Penguins fan. The Penguins far and away outplayed the Flyers but for whatever reason just couldn't get one by Mason and the Flyers skate out away with the 4-1 win.

That sucks.

Everyone outplays the Flyers. Mason is usually the reason they win games. Even last year they were one of the worst playoff teams in recent years, but Mason almost single handedly beat the Rangers. Put a legit good team in front of that guy and he'd be in the vezina discussion.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Everyone outplays the Flyers. Mason is usually the reason they win games. Even last year they were one of the worst playoff teams in recent years, but Mason almost single handedly beat the Rangers. Put a legit good team in front of that guy and he'd be in the vezina discussion.

Not everyone outplays us. We have games like that here and there but we normally are pretty competitive in our wins and absolutely dismal in our losses which is usually against non-playoff teams. Our record against playoff teams in the last 17 is 12-1-4

 

[Rysto]

Boston doesn't really control its own destiny, guys. If they lose their next game they can be overtaken by Ottawa. QED