Proposal: Hertl to NYR (with agreement on long-term contract)

[HyperX]

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)


The reasoning: NY desperately needs a proven 2C to push them up in status and really elevate their all around game. If the defense held up they could possibly win the Metro.

San Jose gets back a mid to late 1st in a strong draft, an impressive defensive prospect, and a player they can immediately input and grow with in Chytil who is good for a top-9 role

Go easy on me!

Click to read more...

 

[hohosaregood]

I'd do that as a Sharks fan. Definitely feels like a lot coming from NYR but I don't think I would accept less regardless.

 

[HyperX]

I'd do that as a Sharks fan. Definitely feels like a lot coming from NYR but I don't think I would accept less regardless.

Its a lot but NY has a LOT of asset value in that org, so they have a lot to use

SJ early 3rd practically a 2nd in a strong draft as well

 

[Trxjw]

As a Rangers fan I think we could use a 2C upgrade but a $7.5m 2c who costs us a top organizational prospect, 1st in a strong draft, and a very good young player in Chytil seems like overkill. A $7.5m 2c is going to throw our cap situation out of whack rather quickly.

Certainly not an offensive proposal but I'd pass. Would prefer a younger option in that role.

 

[HyperX]

As a Rangers fan I think we could use a 2C upgrade but a $7.5m 2c who costs us a top organizational prospect, 1st in a strong draft, and a very good young player in Chytil seems like overkill. A $7.5m 2c is going to throw our cap situation out of whack rather quickly.

Certainly not an offensive proposal but I'd pass.

Yeah itd requirr movement of someone like Trouba one day; but figured the higher end C can get the bests out of Kakko and Lafreniere while theyre on ELCs and bridge deals, so some value is saved in that sense

 

[Trxjw]

Yeah itd requirr movement of someone like Trouba one day; but figured the higher end C can get the bests out of Kakko and Lafreniere while theyre on ELCs and bridge deals, so some value is saved in that sense

I mean guys like Trouba and Kreider are likely to go at some point but we'd have Zibanjead around $9m and Hertl at $7.5m and both guys barreling towards 30 with a spotty injury history to boot. Panarin and Kakko can carry the 2nd line regardless of who is in the middle. Just my opinion obviously but I think we could easily get away with a lesser option on that 2nd line.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'd hate to lose Hertl, but that is good value for him. If we could re-sign him ourselves, I'd rather that. If he won't sign, I'd take this package.

 

[boredmale]

Do the Rangers really need more wingers?

 

[jay from jersey]

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)


The reasoning: NY desperately needs a proven 2C to push them up in status and really elevate their all around game. If the defense held up they could possibly win the Metro.

San Jose gets back a mid to late 1st in a strong draft, an impressive defensive prospect, and a player they can immediately input and grow with in Chytil who is good for a top-9 role

Go easy on me!

I just don’t know why’d he agree to 6years on his last big deal. Players that are on their retirement deals know they are getting 7-8 years 99 outta 100. There’s def other teams that would offer him 7 yrs and more money in FA.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)


The reasoning: NY desperately needs a proven 2C to push them up in status and really elevate their all around game. If the defense held up they could possibly win the Metro.

San Jose gets back a mid to late 1st in a strong draft, an impressive defensive prospect, and a player they can immediately input and grow with in Chytil who is good for a top-9 role

Go easy on me!

Neutral fan, somewhat shark hater saying it looks like a pretty solid deal

 

[CanadienShark]

Do the Rangers really need more wingers?

Who's the winger here? Hertl is unquestionably a pure centre. Just because he CAN play wing, doesn't make him a winger.

 

[Groo]

Would prefer Schneider over Lundqvist

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Would rather go after Larkin at those prices

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think San Jose could get more.


This is essentially Justin Barron + Tyson Jost + Colorado 2023 1st for Hertl. And I would easily offer that package for Hertl. I'd give up a fair bit more actually.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think San Jose could get more.


This is essentially Justin Barron + Tyson Jost + Colorado 2023 1st for Hertl. And I would easily offer that package for Hertl. I'd give up a fair bit more actually.

To me, a prospect like Lundkvist compares closer to Newhook.

As a Rangers fan I think we could use a 2C upgrade but a $7.5m 2c who costs us a top organizational prospect, 1st in a strong draft, and a very good young player in Chytil seems like overkill. A $7.5m 2c is going to throw our cap situation out of whack rather quickly.

Certainly not an offensive proposal but I'd pass. Would prefer a younger option in that role.

The reality of this is that if you're acquiring Hertl, you're getting a 1C caliber player and not a 2C. So if you view him as a 2C then yea it's overkill but I think it's fair if you're getting mid-range 1C.

 

[Trxjw]

The reality of this is that if you're acquiring Hertl, you're getting a 1C caliber player and not a 2C. So if you view him as a 2C then yea it's overkill but I think it's fair if you're getting mid-range 1C.

In this case it has little to do with Hertl as a player and everything to do with the depth chart. Zibanejad is the #1C even with Hertl in the mix, so he's overkill as the guy behind him. Not that he couldn't be that top-line center in his own right but it's just a bit much. Especially when you consider our "2nd line" has a recent Hart nominee and recent 2nd overall pick on the wings.

Really like Hertl as a player in a vacuum. Just don't see him as a great fit for the Rangers.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

To me, a prospect like Lundkvist compares closer to Newhook.


The reality of this is that if you're acquiring Hertl, you're getting a 1C caliber player and not a 2C. So if you view him as a 2C then yea it's overkill but I think it's fair if you're getting mid-range 1C.

Newhook is definitely a few tiers above.

 

[bernmeister]

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)


The reasoning: NY desperately needs a proven 2C to push them up in status and really elevate their all around game. If the defense held up they could possibly win the Metro.

San Jose gets back a mid to late 1st in a strong draft, an impressive defensive prospect, and a player they can immediately input and grow with in Chytil who is good for a top-9 role

Go easy on me!

OP is well intentioned, but the bold is inaccurate.
It is parallel to @jay from jersey saying we MUST have a big name to go with breadman now, or we waste Panarin's best years.
Well intentioned but wrong.

The smartest and strongest play here is to resist temptation for instant gratification and not deal bluest blue chips --- for almost anybody. They are the core of quality young depth that is cost controlled, and will enable the long term signing of Fox [cheaper in the long run] and additional moves.

It's nice if you add another difference maker, but only if you have lucked out and there is minimum need to deal with injuries -- which is often the case playoff time. Abundance of quality depth in youth not only = solid roster top to bottom, but better allows for cap mgmt.

The Bruins and most recently the Lightning illustrate the point.

-------------
We are in the final yr of Zib at 5.x
He will want to get paid. And deserves it.
But in a vacuum while I would go as high as 10.5, I'd want term limited to only 4 yrs and no nmc w/limited trade restriction. That way if I need to move b;c cap I can retain and sell at top dollar.

If we still had compliance buyouts, then sure, grabbing Zib at 8.5 x 8 would be the way to go, and if nec you can move him after 4-5 yrs, and if nec in worst case scenario, you can buy him out and it only costs Dolan $$$. Unfortunately, no compliance = standard buyouts which = signif cap retained.

So again, on paper, smartest move is to see if player will gamble on himself and take certain short term overpay. Then he still makes a chumk on his last deal for his final 5 or so yrs.

---------

All of that would be parallel to Hertl.

Hertl would be nice but it would be smarter to hope he reads between the lines and wherever he is dealt, after the season, he hits the open mareket.
If his health holds up, I'd offer him a short term 3-4 yr overpay and see if he is good with that.
Do not want anybody past 33-34 if that can be helped.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but that is good to avoid albatross contracts later on.

---------
Again, hold off and hope for ufa signing, save assets.
Although Hertl has a lot of wear and tear, I consider him less a medical risk than Eichel.
So if I were to do a deal, I'd want it to be Strome + conditional picks that morph into 1sts, but I'd up it from 2 7ths to 2 2nds.
It is key SJ take future prospects with picks and not current prospects.

Everyone thinks we have a surplus.
We do not.
We have fully enough for our own internal needs. We do not have extra to spare.
It makes sense Trouba will stay on the team this year.
After that, his NMC expires in 2 years.
I expect they will make a generous accommodation for him to allow a deal one season earlier.
As that relates to this, Schneider is Trouba's replacement.
That has to happen as soon as possible b'c of cap mgmt.

My track record is clear.
Early on I wanted to trade Stepan, 2 1sts and other assets for Hertl.
Dif situation.
Dat wuz den an dis is now.

He's been a wonderful Shark and he'll only get moved if he wants a cup shot with SJ in rebuild, otherwise he stays.

If he is moved, obv we understand Sharks wanting top dollar for rental; whether they get it will depend on who is competing and what assets they will actually fork over.
Gutting a team for short term gain usually backfires.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Replace C

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)


The reasoning: NY desperately needs a proven 2C to push them up in status and really elevate their all around game. If the defense held up they could possibly win the Metro.

San Jose gets back a mid to late 1st in a strong draft, an impressive defensive prospect, and a player they can immediately input and grow with in Chytil who is good for a top-9 role

Go easy on me!

As someone without a horse in the race you could be into something here. If they have to re-up Zibanejad and Hertl I think Chytil behind them next season at a fixed 2.3 adds too much value for the Rangers in balancing cap. I'd remove Chytil, add Strome and make the 3rd going to the Rangers a 2nd push it back to 2023 if need be based on potential draft position. If Rangers are trading for Hertl Strome has zero future with the club. Strome as a ufa deadline trade is probably worth 2 2nd's to a contender.

San Jose gets a top D prospect, moves up into the 1st round and gets the assets from a Strome deadline trade. That's pretty solid for a player you likely only trade if he won't sign in SJ.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

OP is well intentioned, but the bold is inaccurate.
It is parallel to @jay from jersey saying we MUST have a big name to go with breadman now, or we waste Panarin's best years.
Well intentioned but wrong.

The smartest and strongest play here is to resist temptation for instant gratification and not deal bluest blue chips --- for almost anybody. They are the core of quality young depth that is cost controlled, and will enable the long term signing of Fox [cheaper in the long run] and additional moves.

It's nice if you add another difference maker, but only if you have lucked out and there is minimum need to deal with injuries -- which is often the case playoff time. Abundance of quality depth in youth not only = solid roster top to bottom, but better allows for cap mgmt.

The Bruins and most recently the Lightning illustrate the point.

-------------
We are in the final yr of Zib at 5.x
He will want to get paid. And deserves it.
But in a vacuum while I would go as high as 10.5, I'd want term limited to only 4 yrs and no nmc w/limited trade restriction. That way if I need to move b;c cap I can retain and sell at top dollar.

If we still had compliance buyouts, then sure, grabbing Zib at 8.5 x 8 would be the way to go, and if nec you can move him after 4-5 yrs, and if nec in worst case scenario, you can buy him out and it only costs Dolan $$$. Unfortunately, no compliance = standard buyouts which = signif cap retained.

So again, on paper, smartest move is to see if player will gamble on himself and take certain short term overpay. Then he still makes a chumk on his last deal for his final 5 or so yrs.

---------

All of that would be parallel to Hertl.

Hertl would be nice but it would be smarter to hope he reads between the lines and wherever he is dealt, after the season, he hits the open mareket.
If his health holds up, I'd offer him a short term 3-4 yr overpay and see if he is good with that.
Do not want anybody past 33-34 if that can be helped.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but that is good to avoid albatross contracts later on.

---------
Again, hold off and hope for ufa signing, save assets.
Although Hertl has a lot of wear and tear, I consider him less a medical risk than Eichel.
So if I were to do a deal, I'd want it to be Strome + conditional picks that morph into 1sts, but I'd up it from 2 7ths to 2 2nds.
It is key SJ take future prospects with picks and not current prospects.

Everyone thinks we have a surplus.
We do not.
We have fully enough for our own internal needs. We do not have extra to spare.
It makes sense Trouba will stay on the team this year.
After that, his NMC expires in 2 years.
I expect they will make a generous accommodation for him to allow a deal one season earlier.
As that relates to this, Schneider is Trouba's replacement.
That has to happen as soon as possible b'c of cap mgmt.

My track record is clear.
Early on I wanted to trade Stepan, 2 1sts and other assets for Hertl.
Dif situation.
Dat wuz den an dis is now.

He's been a wonderful Shark and he'll only get moved if he wants a cup shot with SJ in rebuild, otherwise he stays.

If he is moved, obv we understand Sharks wanting top dollar for rental; whether they get it will depend on who is competing and what assets they will actually fork over.
Gutting a team for short term gain usually backfires.

 

[doomscroll]

Newhook is definitely a few tiers above.

Says the person who equates Nils Lundkvist with Justin Barron… I know you dislike the Rangers, but you just look like a kid throwing stones here.

 

[CanadienShark]

OP is well intentioned, but the bold is inaccurate.
It is parallel to @jay from jersey saying we MUST have a big name to go with breadman now, or we waste Panarin's best years.
Well intentioned but wrong.

The smartest and strongest play here is to resist temptation for instant gratification and not deal bluest blue chips --- for almost anybody. They are the core of quality young depth that is cost controlled, and will enable the long term signing of Fox [cheaper in the long run] and additional moves.

It's nice if you add another difference maker, but only if you have lucked out and there is minimum need to deal with injuries -- which is often the case playoff time. Abundance of quality depth in youth not only = solid roster top to bottom, but better allows for cap mgmt.

The Bruins and most recently the Lightning illustrate the point.

-------------
We are in the final yr of Zib at 5.x
He will want to get paid. And deserves it.
But in a vacuum while I would go as high as 10.5, I'd want term limited to only 4 yrs and no nmc w/limited trade restriction. That way if I need to move b;c cap I can retain and sell at top dollar.

If we still had compliance buyouts, then sure, grabbing Zib at 8.5 x 8 would be the way to go, and if nec you can move him after 4-5 yrs, and if nec in worst case scenario, you can buy him out and it only costs Dolan $$$. Unfortunately, no compliance = standard buyouts which = signif cap retained.

So again, on paper, smartest move is to see if player will gamble on himself and take certain short term overpay. Then he still makes a chumk on his last deal for his final 5 or so yrs.

---------

All of that would be parallel to Hertl.

Hertl would be nice but it would be smarter to hope he reads between the lines and wherever he is dealt, after the season, he hits the open mareket.
If his health holds up, I'd offer him a short term 3-4 yr overpay and see if he is good with that.
Do not want anybody past 33-34 if that can be helped.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but that is good to avoid albatross contracts later on.

---------
Again, hold off and hope for ufa signing, save assets.
Although Hertl has a lot of wear and tear, I consider him less a medical risk than Eichel.
So if I were to do a deal, I'd want it to be Strome + conditional picks that morph into 1sts, but I'd up it from 2 7ths to 2 2nds.
It is key SJ take future prospects with picks and not current prospects.

Everyone thinks we have a surplus.
We do not.
We have fully enough for our own internal needs. We do not have extra to spare.
It makes sense Trouba will stay on the team this year.
After that, his NMC expires in 2 years.
I expect they will make a generous accommodation for him to allow a deal one season earlier.
As that relates to this, Schneider is Trouba's replacement.
That has to happen as soon as possible b'c of cap mgmt.

My track record is clear.
Early on I wanted to trade Stepan, 2 1sts and other assets for Hertl.
Dif situation.
Dat wuz den an dis is now.

He's been a wonderful Shark and he'll only get moved if he wants a cup shot with SJ in rebuild, otherwise he stays.

If he is moved, obv we understand Sharks wanting top dollar for rental; whether they get it will depend on who is competing and what assets they will actually fork over.
Gutting a team for short term gain usually backfires.

You wasted so much time to basically offer Strome + two 2nds.

No thanks.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Says the person who equates Nils Lundkvist with Justin Barron… I know you dislike the Rangers, but you just look like a kid throwing stones here.

Ahhh, what? Lundkvist and Barron are significant closer then Newhook and Lundkvist.

Both Dmen are late 1st round picks who play similar games and have very similar projections.

Newhook is an A-tier, borderline top 10 prospect in the league. A very clear, 2-3 tiers above both Dmen.

And my point in all of this is OPs offer is not very good for a signed Hertl. An offer I think would get beat by many teams and would hope that my Avs would beat this offer.


Personally I'd do Byram or Newhook plus for a signed Hertl.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Does Hertl actually take that contract?

 

[themelkman]

Ahhh, what? Lundkvist and Barron are significant closer then Newhook and Lundkvist.

Both Dmen are late 1st round picks who play similar games and have very similar projections.

Newhook is an A-tier, borderline top 10 prospect in the league. A very clear, 2-3 tiers above both Dmen.

And my point in all of this is OPs offer is not very good for a signed Hertl. An offer I think would get beat by many teams and would hope that my Avs would beat this offer.


Personally I'd do Byram or Newhook plus for a signed Hertl.

I think you might be underrating Chytil. However, if the Avs are the trade guys, I have said I hope Newhook was the guy the sharks put their foot in the sand over. Makes a ton of sense for us going forward and isnt quite the tier of a Byram