Post-Game Talk: Heritage Classic: Canucks lose 4-2 to the Senators - Blame The Closed Roof

[me2]

with gillis there seems to be two contradictory criticisms, one side saying he's overreacted to the 2011 bruins loss and another side saying he hasn't done enough to improve the team

On one hand they complain about too much toughness focus, on the other about releasing Torres and getting softer. It's always interesting when people make the argument that Gillis completely changed the team when it didn't really happen. When you look at the roster changes

* Samuelson was approaching washed up - Booth should have been a replacement while replacing some of Torres physicality.
* Salo for Garrison
* Manny got hurt. - never adequately replaced
* Rome, but Stanton is as tough and a skill upgrade
* Torres - Santorelli (skill upgrade, toughness downgrade)
* Lapierre - Richardson
* bits a pieces like Glass/Weise - aren't worth mentioning
* Raymond - soft but missing his speed
* Ehrhoff - only true skill player not replaced

Pretty much the same team bar the Hoff. Like you said it go old and seemed to oddly happen literally overnight. The question remains, is Gillis the guy to tear it apart? Is he too close to the team like Nonis?

my view would be that this one is on an aging core that may work hard but simply doesn't have the mental fortitude or the high level skill to produce the results that they got 3 years ago, and it's gillis' fault for not recognizing this sooner and preventing any long term deals (ie sedins, burrows) that limit the team's options in the next three years

That's on the GM but really who saw the Sedins imploding this way? They were PPG over the first 10-15 games and looking like business as usual when they signed.

Burrows was iffy.

hodgson/kassian, salo/ehrhoff/garrison...they are important moves but don't matter much when the core of the team looks so painfully slow and feeble on offence, and there is a complete lack of support from young players that should've been drafted 3-4 years ago and should've started making a push to get into the top 6

The 3-4 year ago guys should be AHL or complementary NHLers. I think the bigger issue is the Nonis years and the first 2 of Gillis years, 5-8 year ago players, 23-27 yo in their prime. Where are they? These are the guys that should be carrying the team now, the new core of the team while vets like the Sedins fade to secondary roles.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

I'm completely lost to be honest, I have no idea why we're discussing the Pens or the point you're making, sorry.

Here's the point I was trying to make:

The team loses in the Finals, a loss that was apparently so devastating the owner felt the need to bring in a psychologist to try to help them team recover. Gillis then decides that the team, the one who was far and away the best team in the NHL before injuries hit, was not built for the playoffs and foolishly tried to emulate and Bruins style approach. He brings in Booth because he's a "power forward" built for this new team identity, loses Ehrhoff, Salo, trades away Hodgson for more beef, let's Raymond walk for nothing, etc. Basically shedding skill in an apparent attempt to reset the team. AV lost complete faith in the team as well, reverting to a style that was so passive it choked the offensive life out of the team, players lost confidence because after the Finals the management and coaches lost confidence in them. It seems obvious to me, everything that was working for the team broke when they lost.

So yeah, the Finals loss was the spark that started this brush fire. It's nearly burned this team to the ground though, so it looks like some new life will be growing soon.

Sorry for all the spelling and grammar mistakes, still not used to typing on this iPad..

Personally, I think this is the main reason for the decline. It seems that a process of de-skilling has occurred in the last three years. If the team kept most of the skill and talent they would have a more impactful lineup that could provide the Sedins with the breathing room they were accustomed to. In short, they would not be what they are right now, a one-line team.

Skill and depth are essential for championship caliber teams. I believe the 2011 Canucks had it and did not need to change direction so quickly. They have lost their identity and incredible confidence as a result of these changes.

 

[canuckfan75]

For those of you calling for Mike Gillis to be fired not going to happen


just signed a new 5 year deal and it is 4 more years after this year..

 

[canuck4life16]

For those of you calling for Mike Gillis to be fired not going to happen


just signed a new 5 year deal and it is 4 more years after this year..

I am pretty sure AV was signed for a few years so contract won't matter

 

[canuckfan75]

Same with Torts 4 more years and they are still paying AV for this year and next ..

So no papa Aquilini is going to ok paying 3 coaches ....he hates the fact that he is paying two lol

 

[canuckfan75]

Trust me It matters....... only a few people in this town know how CSE works.

 

[me2]

Personally, I think this is the main reason for the decline. It seems that a process of de-skilling has occurred in the last three years. If the team kept most of the skill and talent they would have a more impactful lineup that could provide the Sedins with the breathing room they were accustomed to. In short, they would not be what they are right now, a one-line team.

Skill and depth are essential for championship caliber teams. I believe the 2011 Canucks had it and did not need to change direction so quickly. They have lost their identity and incredible swagger as a result of these changes.

See the post above. The only true de-skilling loss was Ehrhoff. Everyone else is there or replaced with the same level guy. Some are even skill upgrades. If there is a skill loss it is through aging/injury not some systemic trading away of skill.

Sedin sedin burrows
Higgins Kesler Samuelsson/(Santorelli)
Torres(Booth) Manny/????? Hansen
Raymond???? Lapierre Glass - one set of scrubs for another

Ehrhoff: skill guy
Malhotra getting injury and not adequately replaced, Manny isn't a skill guy.
Raymond: meh

The issue with adding skill this year is the cap dropping and the Canucks need to shave millions.

 

[me2]

I am pretty sure AV was signed for a few years so contract won't matter

AV got another job, I wouldn't be surprised if that negates or partially negates some of the remaining years on his old deal though that is only a guess based on common sense.

 

[Petes2424]

For those of you calling for Mike Gillis to be fired not going to happen


just signed a new 5 year deal and it is 4 more years after this year..

I have to think there's been some internal pressure on him the last few years. Yes, the Luongo thing is squarely on his shoulders for over playing his hand. That said, I think he deserves at least a shot at the retool. Now, if he trades Edler for Luke Schenn and Kesler for that garbage package from the Pens just to suit Torts' style, then I'm all for a public hanging. I do think he gets a chance though.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

See the post above. The only true de-skilling loss was Ehrhoff. Everyone else is there or replaced with the same level guy. Some are even skill upgrades. If there is a skill loss it is through aging/injury not some systemic trading away of skill.

The losses of Samuelsson and Salo were also what de-skilled the team. Salo was more than a shot, Garrisson can't carry his jockstrap in any face of the game other than slappers.

 

[thepuckmonster]

The losses of Samuelsson and Salo were also what de-skilled the team. Salo was more than a shot, Garrisson can't carry his jockstrap in any face of the game other than slappers.

Salo, yes. Samuelsson dropped off the face of the planet pretty face so it's hard to really call it de-skilling with him.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

The losses of Samuelsson and Salo were also what de-skilled the team. Salo was more than a shot, Garrisson can't carry his jockstrap in any face of the game other than slappers.

Garrison wishes he could make outlet passes like Salo, control the play in the offensive zone like salo, hell he's slower and softer as well.

 

[canuck4life16]

I have to think there's been some internal pressure on him the last few years. Yes, the Luongo thing is squarely on his shoulders for over playing his hand. That said, I think he deserves at least a shot at the retool. Now, if he trades Edler for Luke Schenn and Kesler for that garbage package from the Pens just to suit Torts' style, then I'm all for a public hanging. I do think he gets a chance though.

the owners is big supporter of him so he is not going anywhere but up....maybe President of hockey operation with someone new as GM just to shake up things a bit.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

See the post above. The only true de-skilling loss was Ehrhoff. Everyone else is there or replaced with the same level guy. Some are even skill upgrades. If there is a skill loss it is through aging/injury not some systemic trading away of skill.

Fair enough. I still think some the roster moves have been suspect over the last few seasons and believe that there is less skill on the team today than in 2011. However, as you mentioned, the fact that they have not developed a forward prospect of note since Kesler is alarming. There needs to be a constant influx of youth in order to rejuvenate the team, and provide a core the support they need.

 

[Jack Tripper]

The losses of Samuelsson and Salo were also what de-skilled the team. Salo was more than a shot, Garrisson can't carry his jockstrap in any face of the game other than slappers.

salo was injured for half of the games he played here, while samuelsson was recently waived by the red wings...not sure where the massive departure of skill is here

garrison was this team's best d-man for the first 20 games of the season while hamhuis was in a funk, he's not the only canuck to fall off a cliff in recent months

 

[canuckfan75]

Gillis also working on Several Different Projects with CSE`

1) Those 3 Rental towers

2) Canuck TV - 24 hours channel

3) Another Top Secret Project which can not be discussed

 

[thebigbea]

they mention they took pix of the crowd of whole area and u can go to nhl site to look for yourself? anybody remember the website?

 

[Barney Gumble]

Garrison wishes he could make outlet passes like Salo, control the play in the offensive zone like salo, hell he's slower and softer as well.

Salo is good at being in the infirmary - though he's strangely lost this skill as a Bolt.

 

[canuck4life16]

Gillis also working on Several Different Projects with CSE`

1) Those 3 Rental towers

2) Canuck TV - 24 hours channel

3) Another Top Secret Project which can not be discussed

where you getting this information

 

[me2]

Fair enough. I still think some the roster moves have been suspect over the last few seasons and believe that there is less skill on the team today than in 2011. However, as you mentioned, the fact that they have not developed a forward prospect of note since Kesler is alarming. There needs to be a constant influx of youth in order to rejuvenate the team, and provide a core the support they need.

That is what has killed this team evolution more than anything. The current loss of skill though is more about existing players.

* Burrows used to the have skill to pot 25+ goals
* Daniel 30-40 goals
* Hansen used to be good for 30-40 ES points
* Edler 40-50 points
etc.

The biggest skill problems are the guys that are still here not the guys that aren't.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

Salo is good at being in the infirmary - though he's strangely lost this skill as a Bolt.

makes Garrisons flaws stand out even more when he cant match an injury prone old man in most areas of the game.

 

[me2]

Salo is good at being in the infirmary - though he's strangely lost this skill as a Bolt.

It's a canuck freebee in all Dmen contracts, 20 games off a year.

 

[wonton15]

Jensen gets put on Kesler's wing. Proceeds to put up PPG numbers and gets sent down after 4 games. Torts relegates Dalpe to the 2nd line

 

[canuck4life16]

That is what has killed this team evolution more than anything. The current loss of skill though is more about existing players.

* Burrows used to the have skill to pot 25+ goals
* Daniel 30-40 goals
* Hansen used to be good for 30-40 ES points
* Edler 40-50 points
etc.

The biggest skill problems are the guys that are still here not the guys that aren't.

is it possible that Torts system is making of these player not score? I think Burrow is having a awful year of injuries. I think Daniel will be fine will need to work some things

 

[InHenrikWeTrust]

Hey guys over from the Rangers board. I can imagine you guys aren't very happy with Torts, especially after the mindless decision today to sit Luongo. The guy is so hard headed and stubborn.