Here and Now: The Preseason

[Raccoon Jesus]

Good on Drew, he should be saying that and hopefully influencing the coaches and management.

Just horrific that Doughty spent a good chunk of his prime years playing with a guy like Forbort. Derek Forbort is a #6 d-man in the NHL, period. It's a shame he has stuck around so long in LA because of where he was drafted, guys like this are a dime a dozen around the league, playing 12-15 minutes a night with other bottom pairing defenders.

He's had some great and some terrible. SOD was the best thing that could have happened early. Scuderi 1.0 was perfect at the time. Muzzin was perfect at the time. Scuderi 2.0 was abysmal. McNabb was ideal at first--then he had that time when he fell apart and was arguably the worst. Forbort trended like McNabb--though if he was truly playing through a back injury, that was stupid as f***, and he's already limited without being hobbled.

But Bjornfot--even better than Muzzin as a complement imo

If I were dictator, I would teleport Forbort to 1692 Salem and tell them that he is a witch

Witches don't float

EZ

 

[bland]

Forbort IS a good NHL defenseman. He has good gap control, a good stick, is good along the wall, and has a decent first pass. He is good on the PK as well.

He is not the kind of player you expect to see getting 20+ minutes a night as his skill set is limited, but once again, one bad season on a team full of players who had bad seasons and some folks start getting carried away with their nonsense.

He is a role player who was pushed up the food chain because the organization had nobody else who was capable of playing with Doughty. He did the job well in 17-18, not so well in18-19. But suddenly he isn't even a NHL player to some? Good lord.

 

[bland]

Regardless of Doughty's performance, or the lack of criticism for his performance, Forbort is not good. And whether or not they should be held to the same expectations does not mean criticism of Forbort's play should be held back and dole'd over to Doughty. That's literally childish....stupid **** the parents do to make things "fair."

At no point did I say Forbort shouldn't be criticized, and its got absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and my point was about a different issue anyway.

Kopitar and Doughty are held to higher standards, and when they mess the team's bed as they did last year, it's those two who deserve the lion's share of the blame. Taking role or complimentary players to task is perfectly fine and warranted - but thats not what Kings Pawn was stating. He was asking why I hold Kopitar accountable for his failures and not Toffoli - that isn't the case, its just a question of proportion.

 

[bob77]

He's had some great and some terrible. SOD was the best thing that could have happened early. Scuderi 1.0 was perfect at the time. Muzzin was perfect at the time. Scuderi 2.0 was abysmal. McNabb was ideal at first--then he had that time when he fell apart and was arguably the worst. Forbort trended like McNabb--though if he was truly playing through a back injury, that was stupid as ****, and he's already limited without being hobbled.

But Bjornfot--even better than Muzzin as a complement imo




Witches don't float

EZ

Forbort missed all but the last preseason game last year due to injury. This was all after missing the Vegas playoffs a few months earlier from an obvious leg injury. So was missing last preseason from leg problems or his back problem?

 

[lumbergh]

OK, one more post just for the record. This is too funny -- from LAKings Insider:

“I think Forbs has turned into an amazing player,” Doughty said. “I don’t know if everyone realizes how good he is at defense. He’s like amazing at defense, he really is.”

Game, set, match.

I thought of this exact quote as well. Amazing. I mean, it's only two "amazings", but still, amazing. Turns out Doughty is not a good scout.

Let's not get too excited about anything Doughty says.

Forbort is the epitome of mediocrity. I've said so for three years. Boring player on a boring team playing boring hockey. The sooner the Kings move on, the better, imo.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I thought of this exact quote as well. Amazing. I mean, it's only two "amazings", but still, amazing. Turns out Doughty is not a good scout.

Let's not get too excited about anything Doughty says.

Forbort is the epitome of mediocrity. I've said so for three years. Boring player on a boring team playing boring hockey. The sooner the Kings move on, the better, imo.

That's the most accurate scouting report I've seen this offseason.

 

[kings11]

At no point did I say Forbort shouldn't be criticized, and its got absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and my point was about a different issue anyway.

Kopitar and Doughty are held to higher standards, and when they mess the team's bed as they did last year, it's those two who deserve the lion's share of the blame. Taking role or complimentary players to task is perfectly fine and warranted - but thats not what Kings Pawn was stating. He was asking why I hold Kopitar accountable for his failures and not Toffoli - that isn't the case, its just a question of proportion.

This is my problem with your statement and other people’s opinion as well...
Kopitar had a shit start then averaged about a ppg over the last 60 games. How does or Doughty deserve the lions share of the blame? Did they make all those shitty trades before Blake and Co took over? Did he cause Pearson and Toffoli to suck ass? Did he accelerate Carter’s decline by causing his tendon injury?
Some of this commentary is not only stupid but irrational. Kopitar and Doughty weren’t saving this franchise from what happened, hell think about how bad every player decline and tell me how they had a hand in it?
So again, this is a general comment to posters on here that do nothing more than bitch but this decline was years in the making and has taken Blake and Co the last 3 seasons to help us see the light with these young studs

 

[bouncesonly]

At no point did I say Forbort shouldn't be criticized, and its got absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and my point was about a different issue anyway.

Kopitar and Doughty are held to higher standards, and when they mess the team's bed as they did last year, it's those two who deserve the lion's share of the blame. Taking role or complimentary players to task is perfectly fine and warranted - but thats not what Kings Pawn was stating. He was asking why I hold Kopitar accountable for his failures and not Toffoli - that isn't the case, its just a question of proportion.

Nothing to do with fairness....but certain players are held to a standard not the same as others, which one might do to be.....fair?

Forbort IS a good NHL defenseman. He has good gap control, a good stick, is good along the wall, and has a decent first pass. He is good on the PK as well.

He is not the kind of player you expect to see getting 20+ minutes a night as his skill set is limited, but once again, one bad season on a team full of players who had bad seasons and some folks start getting carried away with their nonsense.

He is a role player who was pushed up the food chain because the organization had nobody else who was capable of playing with Doughty. He did the job well in 17-18, not so well in18-19. But suddenly he isn't even a NHL player to some? Good lord.

He's good but not "capable" enough to play for Doughty? Sounds like he's not good....

I dunno man, your arguments appear to be contradictions. If you truly believe Forbort is who you say you are, then the Kings should expect nothing less than a 2nd if he gets traded, no?

 

[Sol]

Drew has been enthusiastic about every D partner he's had. TB clearly has more potential especially at that age but it doesn't really matter what Drew wants, it's what the coaches see as best. Have you looked at the Kings' D? It's a bunch of midgets and 1 part time giant. DD has always played with a shutdown D and for good reason. He plays tons of minutes and last time I checked the West is still full of big boys (Getzlaf, Hertl, Thornton etc.)

That's a really bad way to look at it. You're basically saying just because Forbort is tall we should look over the fact hes garbage and gets beat nonstop. I'd rather have a player that can support Doughtys skillset rather than have Doughty play with someone he has to baby sit because that "shut down dman" ain't no dman.

 

[Sol]

Good on Drew, he should be saying that and hopefully influencing the coaches and management.

Just horrific that Doughty spent a good chunk of his prime years playing with a guy like Forbort. Derek Forbort is a #6 d-man in the NHL, period. It's a shame he has stuck around so long in LA because of where he was drafted, guys like this are a dime a dozen around the league, playing 12-15 minutes a night with other bottom pairing defenders.

That's my primary issue with the Kings. There are players on this team that have no reason to be here other than status. And Forbort is the most glaring example.

I don't get how people think we are glossing over how bad Doughty and Kopitar were last season. You aren't gonna get rid of players like that at this point, best you can do is replace the support players. Hence why we focus on players like Forbort who bring them down.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Has Forbort been here because of where he was drafted, or because actual 1st pair defensemen aren't normally just out there to be had at the drop of a hat? They still haven't replaced Voynov.

Are the veterans still here because of status, or because nobody really needs old guys with term?

We eventually stopped liking McNabb when he was next to Doughty too. Now we want him back, because he's at least better than Forbort, but would he be the answer? Should Muzzin still be here? Who is the guy they should've gotten after Voynov screwed up all the pairings for the following 5 seasons?

 

[Herby]

Has Forbort been here because of where he was drafted, or because actual 1st pair defensemen aren't normally just out there to be had at the drop of a hat? They still haven't replaced Voynov.

Are the veterans still here because of status, or because nobody really needs old guys with term?

We eventually stopped liking McNabb when he was next to Doughty too. Now we want him back, because he's at least better than Forbort, but would he be the answer? Should Muzzin still be here? Who is the guy they should've gotten after Voynov screwed up all the pairings for the following 5 seasons?

Plenty of other older veteran depth players move from team to team, so I feel like with the Kings it's intentional, where as most other teams prefer to cycle through depth players the Kings prefer to keep them for over a decade. I researched it and posted it here maybe a couple of years ago, but at the time the Kings had an insane amount of players with 8+ years in the organization, way more than any other team in the NHL.

And the Kings may not be the worst drafting team this decade, but they have to be up there. It has been so long since we drafted and developed a top pairing defender or top 6 forward, so yeah that is how you end up with Forbort playing with Doughty and Iafallo playing with Kopitar.

 

[HookKing]

That's a really bad way to look at it. You're basically saying just because Forbort is tall we should look over the fact hes garbage and gets beat nonstop. I'd rather have a player that can support Doughtys skillset rather than have Doughty play with someone he has to baby sit because that "shut down dman" ain't no dman.

Coming from a guy who thought last year that Brickley should be playing first pairing minutes with DD, after 1 exhibition game...not only did he not make the team but was arguably the worst D in the AHL

 

[redcard]

Witches don't float

EZ

You're mistaken here, empirical evidence supports the theory that they do indeed float as they are made of wood. See my source sited below:

 

[bland]

Nothing to do with fairness....but certain players are held to a standard not the same as others, which one might do to be.....fair?



He's good but not "capable" enough to play for Doughty? Sounds like he's not good....

I dunno man, your arguments appear to be contradictions. If you truly believe Forbort is who you say you are, then the Kings should expect nothing less than a 2nd if he gets traded, no?

They aren't remotely contradictory. You just apparently don't understand them.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A prospect drafted 15th overall (and whom the Kings traded up to select) should be held to a certain standard. That particular draft class was said to be stacked with good defensemen, with some who were touted to be first round talent dropping to the second round. Forbort was selected ahead of some of those names, such as Justin Faulk and Jon Merrill.

Nine defensemen from that draft have appeared in more NHL games than Forbort, who was the fifth defenseman selected in 2010 (Gudbranson, McIlrath, Fowler and Gormley went ahead of Forbort). Luckily for the Kings, they didn't waste it on another Teubert, which is what McIlrath was, or a journeyman like Gormley.

That said, there were guys taken later like Radko Gudas who have appeared in more games. Forbort's played in the same range of games as bottom pairing defensemen like Petrovic, Marincin, Nemeth and Prout, who all went much later than 15th overall. I think considering who went after Forbort, there is a cloud that hangs over him, and it took six years of development for him to finally earn a full-time spot on the roster.

If he's going to be a defensive specialist earning 20+ minutes a night, he has to be damn good in that role. Not adequate or acceptable. That is unless you have really low standards and expected absolutely nothing out of said player.

 

[Lt Dan]

A prospect drafted 15th overall (and whom the Kings traded up to select) should be held to a certain standard. That particular draft class was said to be stacked with good defensemen, with some who were touted to be first round talent dropping to the second round. Forbort was selected ahead of some of those names, such as Justin Faulk and Jon Merrill.

Nine defensemen from that draft have appeared in more NHL games than Forbort, who was the fifth defenseman selected in 2010 (Gudbranson, McIlrath, Fowler and Gormley went ahead of Forbort). Luckily for the Kings, they didn't waste it on another Teubert, which is what McIlrath was, or a journeyman like Gormley.

That said, there were guys taken later like Radko Gudas who have appeared in more games. Forbort's played in the same range of games as bottom pairing defensemen like Petrovic, Marincin, Nemeth and Prout, who all went much later than 15th overall. I think considering who went after Forbort, there is a cloud that hangs over him, and it took six years of development for him to finally earn a full-time spot on the roster.

If he's going to be a defensive specialist earning 20+ minutes a night, he has to be damn good in that role. Not adequate or acceptable. That is unless you have really low standards and expected absolutely nothing out of said player.

I wish I could like this post twice

 

[Lt Dan]

You just apparently don't understand them.

Uh oh , he is pulling a HookKing

 

[The Tikkanen]

Forbort has 6 goals in 255 NHL games, 0 PP goals, 0 PP assists, a career shooting percentage of 2.2%, 43, takeaways, 233 giveaways and he's averaging around 20 minutes a night. And he's making almost 3 million dollars? Sadly there are no stats for gap control.

 

[Schmooley]

Stats aside, my biggest frustration with Forbort is how soft he is in his own zone. Especially for his size. Doesnt punish anyone in the slot and struggles under a strong forecheck.
I think he will get better and peak as a player a bit later than most dmen.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I thought of this exact quote as well. Amazing. I mean, it's only two "amazings", but still, amazing. Turns out Doughty is not a good scout.

Let's not get too excited about anything Doughty says.

Forbort is the epitome of mediocrity. I've said so for three years. Boring player on a boring team playing boring hockey. The sooner the Kings move on, the better, imo.

Keep in mind that playing boring hockey won LA not 1 but 2 cups. If anything, I trust his hockey IQ. There was a reason he went #2 at the draft.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Plenty of other older veteran depth players move from team to team, so I feel like with the Kings it's intentional, where as most other teams prefer to cycle through depth players the Kings prefer to keep them for over a decade. I researched it and posted it here maybe a couple of years ago, but at the time the Kings had an insane amount of players with 8+ years in the organization, way more than any other team in the NHL.

And the Kings may not be the worst drafting team this decade, but they have to be up there. It has been so long since we drafted and developed a top pairing defender or top 6 forward, so yeah that is how you end up with Forbort playing with Doughty and Iafallo playing with Kopitar.

That was the cost of desperate Lombardi swinging deals. He was good at developing from the bottom up but struggled after they came successful. He tried to keep it the same while they league changed and held on too tightly. Bare cupboard. The only other option was to over pay rental players which I'm glad he didn't do.

 

[TruKingFan]

Uh oh , he is pulling a HookKing

Maybe a Mondo Blando who may been spit out of LGK.....

 

[kingsholygrail]

Tonight they're in Anaslime right?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Tonight they're in Anaslime right?

Yes. Projected lineup! I think AmateurKhorkin really needs a game in top 6 to show what he can do. Not fair to him to put him on 4th line. He's a skill guy and can score and make plays...need to see what he can do in top 6 role and PP time. I want to see what Kempe-Kupari-Kovalchuk can do! KKK line:
KU-KEMP-KOV.

Grundstrom-Amadio-Wagner
Kovalchuk-A.Kempe-Kupari
Clifford-Lizotte-Lewis
Anderson-Dolan-Prokhorkin-M.Kempe
Hutton-Walker
Martinez-Roy
Ryan-LaDue
Quick