Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[JetsFan815]

Realistically who comes out of the lineup for him? With the way things are going I doubt they move anyone. We would have to start losing for that too happen. Maybe there is a forward prospect that is blocked and you can make a dealt here because they want a youngish D man.

Should have traded someone in the offseason for a forward to make room for younger d-men or given him a run at the end of last season when all was lost so atleast we knew what we had in him. The d logjam was entirely predictable and many were questioning Chevy for not doing anything about it in the summer. Now we have to deal with the consequences of the do-nothing summer.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Should have traded someone in the offseason for a forward to make room for younger d-men or given him a run at the end of last season when all was lost so atleast we knew what we had in him. The d logjam was entirely predictable and many were questioning Chevy for not doing anything about it in the summer. Now we have to deal with the consequences of the do-nothing summer.

With Barron and Ehlers injury, I imagine we will see a move sooner rather than later.

I also predicted the same thing in the summer and was grossly incorrect so what do I know? (Spoiler… nothing)

 

[GaryPoppins]

Realistically who comes out of the lineup for him? With the way things are going I doubt they move anyone. We would have to start losing for that to happen. Maybe there is a forward prospect that is blocked and you can make a dealt here because they want a youngish D man.

I still think the play is moving Dillon for a forward on a team who’s needing to move a bit of space and taking back a bigger contract. Would likely get an asset and would bolster up front.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Realistically who comes out of the lineup for him? With the way things are going I doubt they move anyone. We would have to start losing for that too happen. Maybe there is a forward prospect that is blocked and you can make a dealt here because they want a youngish D man.

Pionk after that turnover on pp in front of our net.

 

[ps241]

Didn't get the memo

I've noticed though...

anything bad = chipman,
anything good = Chevy

I am at best neutral on Chevy but

What's funny is that Logan Stanley has been probably our best 3rd pairing d-man, paired with De Melo for 3 years running, and his PK metrics are better than Dillon's 2 years in a row, which makes you wonder why the Jets traded for Dillon, and don't have a 2nd round pick this upcoming draft as a consequence, with Samberg, Heinola and Chisholm all knocking on the door.

DeMelo seems to have that effect on his partners. He’s good with Morrissey too. I prefer to keep him in the top 4 but what do I know.

 

[surixon]

Realistically who comes out of the lineup for him? With the way things are going I doubt they move anyone. We would have to start losing for that too happen. Maybe there is a forward prospect that is blocked and you can make a dealt here because they want a youngish D man.

I'm thinking this is what we need to look for or a Heinola plus for a good top 6 forward.

We ate starting to see this kind of thing more and more with the young players these days. They aren't content to toil for long in the minors and wait their turn.

I do think the org does need to be careful that this doesn't continue to be a trend here. Laine didn't like his usage, ditto for Roslovic and now Ville. We can't afford to have good young talent demand out and hope to stay competitive in the long run.

 

[voyageur]

I'm thinking this is what we need to look for or a Heinola plus for a good top 6 forward.

We ate starting to see this kind of thing more and more with the young players these days. They aren't content to toil for long in the minors and wait their turn.

I do think the org does need to be careful that this doesn't continue to be a trend here. Laine didn't like his usage, ditto for Roslovic and now Ville. We can't afford to have good young talent demand out and hope to stay competitive in the long run.

I don't think the Jets can risk trading Heinola this season. After losing Kovacevic, I don't think there's a high comfort level promoting either of Gawanke or Lundmark this season as RD depth for injury replacement, and Heinola is going to get that promotion.

Besides the top 6 is set once Ehlers comes back, if anyone were to get demoted from the top 6 with another addition, it's probably Perfetti, and that's not something I want to see. With Barron out I do think there's a gap in scoring from the #9 forward, who is now Maenalanen. Is this an opening for Harkins, hard to say? but if he isn't the guy, I'm not optimistic about what Toninato, AJF, and Maenalanen are going to bring to the score sheet.

I feel like his agent is making some noise because right now there is a roster spot open with both Barron and Stanley on IR, and Heinola isn't getting it, and coach is talking about wanting to play his #7 defenseman at some point. I'm sure if you give Heinola a couple of weeks of NHL salary he's a lot less unhappy, as is his agent. I also think his agent is smart enough to know that Heinola could be a starting defenseman on at least 10 teams in the NHL right now, so maybe he's pushing for that. I don't think you see any trades from Chevy this season, until at least the deadline, and then health will be the determining factor in that.

 

[ps241]

I don't think the Jets can risk trading Heinola this season. After losing Kovacevic, I don't think there's a high comfort level promoting either of Gawanke or Lundmark this season as RD depth for injury replacement, and Heinola is going to get that promotion.

Besides the top 6 is set once Ehlers comes back, if anyone were to get demoted from the top 6 with another addition, it's probably Perfetti, and that's not something I want to see. With Barron out I do think there's a gap in scoring from the #9 forward, who is now Maenalanen. Is this an opening for Harkins, hard to say? but if he isn't the guy, I'm not optimistic about what Toninato, AJF, and Maenalanen are going to bring to the score sheet.

I feel like his agent is making some noise because right now there is a roster spot open with both Barron and Stanley on IR, and Heinola isn't getting it, and coach is talking about wanting to play his #7 defenseman at some point. I'm sure if you give Heinola a couple of weeks of NHL salary he's a lot less unhappy, as is his agent. I also think his agent is smart enough to know that Heinola could be a starting defenseman on at least 10 teams in the NHL right now, so maybe he's pushing for that. I don't think you see any trades from Chevy this season, until at least the deadline, and then health will be the determining factor in that.

I don’t blame Heinola’s agent just like I can’t really blame Roslo for wanting out of Winnipeg. Jack and his agent were right it was much better for his career for them to move. As you said Ville can probably play for 10 teams right now so why waist another year in tweenerville. These guys have short careers and they also have windows to make things happen. I don’t begrudge Ville or his agent for pressing the issue at this snap shot in time and using what little leverage they have. Ville is in his draft +4 season and has put in his time developing but he is caught in a numbers game in Winnipeg. I think it would serve him best to move on to a team that needs him. That being said does it serve the Jets best interest? That depends on the return I suppose.

 

[Jet]

I'm trying to point how draft and develop is not working because every top 100 pick from 2014-2019 drafts should have an impact in that process, and if they don't you end up trading 2nds, 3rds, etc to fill those holes, and now we are relying on one good draft in 2022 to replenish all those mistakes. It will be worse if the 2021 Russians don't come over to Winnipeg, in my opinion.

That's definitely a concern. I definitely don't agree with every decision Chevy has made and I think if this team needs a mini rebuild (depending on how the Jets do this year) I would like someone new making the decisions.

I think overall Chevy gets a passing grade for his work over the past 11 years but is that enough?

I don't think the Jets can risk trading Heinola this season. After losing Kovacevic, I don't think there's a high comfort level promoting either of Gawanke or Lundmark this season as RD depth for injury replacement, and Heinola is going to get that promotion.

Besides the top 6 is set once Ehlers comes back, if anyone were to get demoted from the top 6 with another addition, it's probably Perfetti, and that's not something I want to see. With Barron out I do think there's a gap in scoring from the #9 forward, who is now Maenalanen. Is this an opening for Harkins, hard to say? but if he isn't the guy, I'm not optimistic about what Toninato, AJF, and Maenalanen are going to bring to the score sheet.

I feel like his agent is making some noise because right now there is a roster spot open with both Barron and Stanley on IR, and Heinola isn't getting it, and coach is talking about wanting to play his #7 defenseman at some point. I'm sure if you give Heinola a couple of weeks of NHL salary he's a lot less unhappy, as is his agent. I also think his agent is smart enough to know that Heinola could be a starting defenseman on at least 10 teams in the NHL right now, so maybe he's pushing for that. I don't think you see any trades from Chevy this season, until at least the deadline, and then health will be the determining factor in that.

Those are good points. I'm hoping that Ville gets his chance and makes the most of it, but the first step for him is getting over his frustrations and channeling that energy towards improving and being excellent in the ahl.

 

[Jet]

I don’t blame Heinola’s agent just like I can’t really blame Roslo for wanting out of Winnipeg. Jack and his agent were right it was much better for his career for them to move. As you said Ville can probably play for 10 teams right now so why waist another year in tweenerville. These guys have short careers and they also have windows to make things happen. I don’t begrudge Ville or his agent for pressing the issue at this snap shot in time and using what little leverage they have. Ville is in his draft +4 season and has put in his time developing but he is caught in a numbers game in Winnipeg. I think it would serve him best to move on to a team that needs him. That being said does it serve the Jets best interest? That depends on the return I suppose.

I don't like the tactic of going public with this stuff. I'm not sure that it has a positive effect, especially with an org. Like true north who keep their business and operational dealings private.

All it does is causes animosity between Ville and his peers, and ville and the org. It's also a distraction for Heinola who should be continuing to work on improvement and performance at the ahl level.

People think that a player gets to the point where they cannot learn anymore at the level they're at. I think that's false, especially for a guy who's not performing at a high level where he currently is.

 

[TS Quint]

Should have traded someone in the offseason for a forward to make room for younger d-men or given him a run at the end of last season when all was lost so atleast we knew what we had in him. The d logjam was entirely predictable and many were questioning Chevy for not doing anything about it in the summer. Now we have to deal with the consequences of the do-nothing summer.

We know what we have in Heinola. I don’t know why you would think the Jets cant evaluate a player on their own AHL team.

 

[TS Quint]

I'm thinking this is what we need to look for or a Heinola plus for a good top 6 forward.

We ate starting to see this kind of thing more and more with the young players these days. They aren't content to toil for long in the minors and wait their turn.

I do think the org does need to be careful that this doesn't continue to be a trend here. Laine didn't like his usage, ditto for Roslovic and now Ville. We can't afford to have good young talent demand out and hope to stay competitive in the long run.

Yeah, Roslovic, Laine and now Ville got the useage they deserve. Same with Free Niku, Free Postma, and Free Dano.

 

[sipowicz]

So, tiny Heiny getting whiny!

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Hasn't been the best d man on the Moose this season but whines. Chisholm deserves a chance over this entitled little whiner

 

[sipowicz]

Hasn't been the best d man on the Moose this season but whines. Chisholm deserves a chance over this entitled little whiner

Switch their draft positions and see who’s talking about tiny Heiny!

 

[KingBogo]

I'm thinking this is what we need to look for or a Heinola plus for a good top 6 forward.

We ate starting to see this kind of thing more and more with the young players these days. They aren't content to toil for long in the minors and wait their turn.

I do think the org does need to be careful that this doesn't continue to be a trend here. Laine didn't like his usage, ditto for Roslovic and now Ville. We can't afford to have good young talent demand out and hope to stay competitive in the long run.

It’s a pretty slippery slope you are on. How much say does an organization give over to its prospects on how they are used? They all want to play in the NHL and when they are in the NHL they all want lots of ice time and to play with the best players and be on the PP. You use Laine as an example. He was in the top 6 and the trigger man on the #1 PP as an 18 year old rookie. If you’re not happy with that you pretty much will be making all the usage decisions.

 

[Jet]

It’s a pretty slippery slope you are on. How much say does an organization give over to its prospects on how they are used? They all want to play in the NHL and when they are in the NHL they all want lots of ice time and to play with the best players and be on the PP. You use Laine as an example. He was in the top 6 and the trigger man on the #1 PP as an 18 year old rookie. If you’re not happy with that you pretty much will be making all the usage decisions.

Right? I wonder if it's a cultural thing with Finns? Not saying it's exclusive to Finnish players because we see it with NA players as well, but Laine Niku and now Heinola all complained through the media about not getting the opportunity they wanted. I didn't hear anything about Ves but he just left back to Europe, so

You simply cannot let players dictate decisions like this based off of what they think they should get. I'd say that if the Jets were thinner on D he'd definitely be in the NHL but would that really be the best for him? Really hard to say.

 

[Jack7222]

Right? I wonder if it's a cultural thing with Finns? Not saying it's exclusive to Finnish players because we see it with NA players as well, but Laine Niku and now Heinola all complained through the media about not getting the opportunity they wanted. I didn't hear anything about Ves but he just left back to Europe, so

You simply cannot let players dictate decisions like this based off of what they think they should get. I'd say that if the Jets were thinner on D he'd definitely be in the NHL but would that really be the best for him? Really hard to say.

Agree, but the organization is also going to have to figure out how to handle these situations. It's within a player's rights to make statements like this, and they and their agents aren't stupid; Heinola realizes he has the skill today to play in the NHL somewhere. So while it might benefit the org to "slow play" a bunch of prospects, they might also be poisoning the well with prospects who realize that this isn't in their own best interest.

To say nothing of the fact that our org seems to have a D evaluation problem in the first place... we also have to be ready and willing to cash in on prospects that we don't have paths for, and try to do so closer to the height of their perceived value. Because you can bet that as that perceived value crests, they're going to be making noise and wanting out. That risks hurting your leverage, along with their perceived value dropping as they are seen as being unable to make the big club.

It's possible that the organization actually sees stalled development from Heinola and aren't happy with his development progress, and maybe that caught them off guard. But looking at the org's history of evaluation of defensemen... IDK, I have my doubts here. Who knows. But (hindsight is 20-20 of course)... I think they should have either cleared the log jam, or traded Heinola last year or earlier, when his perceived value was higher. You're not going to get more in a trade for him now with him languishing and trying to force your hand.

(I also can't help but wonder what Heinola would look like with Stanley's 100 NHL games under his belt...)

 

[objectiveposter]

stanley and samberg are scrubs....jets need to stop wasting time on them and give heinola a legit shot to prove himself. Tired of the politics on this team.

 

[surixon]

It’s a pretty slippery slope you are on. How much say does an organization give over to its prospects on how they are used? They all want to play in the NHL and when they are in the NHL they all want lots of ice time and to play with the best players and be on the PP. You use Laine as an example. He was in the top 6 and the trigger man on the #1 PP as an 18 year old rookie. If you’re not happy with that you pretty much will be making all the usage decisions.

Agreed that it is a slippery slope. I think you need to be flexible as an org and give opportunities when they are warranted.

With Laine there were times when he was hot that he could have been elevated to play with Mark for some spells in his second and third years.

Ville likely sees what most see, no clear path to a roster spot for the next number of years. He's done 3 years of AHL seasoning with no end in sight so I can understand wanting to go somewhere and get his NHL career going. It's not like demanded out first chance he got. He feels he did his time and has earned a shot.

 

[KingBogo]

Agree, but the organization is also going to have to figure out how to handle these situations. It's within a player's rights to make statements like this, and they and their agents aren't stupid; Heinola realizes he has the skill today to play in the NHL somewhere. So while it might benefit the org to "slow play" a bunch of prospects, they might also be poisoning the well with prospects who realize that this isn't in their own best interest.

To say nothing of the fact that our org seems to have a D evaluation problem in the first place... we also have to be ready and willing to cash in on prospects that we don't have paths for, and try to do so closer to the height of their perceived value. Because you can bet that as that perceived value crests, they're going to be making noise and wanting out. That risks hurting your leverage, along with their perceived value dropping as they are seen as being unable to make the big club.

It's possible that the organization actually sees stalled development from Heinola and aren't happy with his development progress, and maybe that caught them off guard. But looking at the org's history of evaluation of defensemen... IDK, I have my doubts here. Who knows. But (hindsight is 20-20 of course)... I think they should have either cleared the log jam, or traded Heinola last year or earlier, when his perceived value was higher. You're not going to get more in a trade for him now with him languishing and trying to force your hand.

(I also can't help but wonder what Heinola would look like with Stanley's 100 NHL games under his belt...)

Other than Stanley, what defenseman prospects are you referring to in term of poor organizational evaluation? We really haven't spent much of our high draft picks on D men other than Trouba and Morrissey. To me this is turning out to be a glaring mistake.

 

[Jack7222]

Other than Stanley, what defenseman prospects are you referring to in term of poor organizational evaluation? We really haven't spent much of our high draft picks on D man other than Trouba and Morrissey. To me this is turning out to be a glaring mistake.

Not really referring to prospects here so much as the type of D we consistently picked up off the waiver wire, along with the types of deals we've given to our defensemen and our usage.

I do agree with your idea about draft distribution though... we haven't done a lot with defensemen in the first round overall, and seeing how tough it is for us to go out and get players, this has left a bit of an unbalanced lineup. That's a big reason why the handling of Heinola is so important.

 

[surixon]

Right? I wonder if it's a cultural thing with Finns? Not saying it's exclusive to Finnish players because we see it with NA players as well, but Laine Niku and now Heinola all complained through the media about not getting the opportunity they wanted. I didn't hear anything about Ves but he just left back to Europe, so

You simply cannot let players dictate decisions like this based off of what they think they should get. I'd say that if the Jets were thinner on D he'd definitely be in the NHL but would that really be the best for him? Really hard to say.

This isn't just a Jet only issue, you see it all over the league now.

Other than Stanley, what defenseman prospects are you referring to in term of poor organizational evaluation? We really haven't spent much of our high draft picks on D men other than Trouba and Morrissey. To me this is turning out to be a glaring mistake.

Bogo there is a long list of poor evaluarion and deployment:
-Signed Stuart to a poor contract and kept him shackled to Trouba years too long.
-Tucker Poolman was elevated to the top pair with JoMo due to perceived size and that was a disaster.
-The scrubs we got and Moe played in Harrison, Biettto etc.
-Thinking Belieau was a top pairing guy and forcing JoMo to his offside to play with him
-Trading for Tyler Myers and using him far higher up the lineup then he should have been given his results.
Etc.

It doesn't juat apply to d prospects it applies across the board with trades, signings etc.

If they have a massive issue at the pro level identifying and deploying dmen then I don't see how you'd expect things to be markedly better at the amateur level.

 

[KingBogo]

Not really referring to prospects here so much as the type of D we consistently picked up off the waiver wire, along with the types of deals we've given to our defensemen and our usage.

I do agree with your idea about draft distribution though... we haven't done a lot with defensemen in the first round overall, and seeing how tough it is for us to go out and get players, this has left a bit of an unbalanced lineup.

Agreed the post Buff period seemed to catch Chevy off guard and we fumbled through a couple seasons trying to patch holes with waiver wire cast offs and then in retrospect Chevy leaped too far the other way signing both Dillion and Schmidt within a week of each other locking up 2 spots at close to $10 M salary.

 

[DRW204]

yeah pretty sure it was during the CDN division year where they said he was the one of the best prospect in canada. that was merely 1-1.5 year ago, and he followed it up w/ a great AHL season last season.

imo if you have no clear plans for a highly touted prospect to play, you trade them, especially if their market-value is greater than how much you value them.

ty smith->john marino
brannstrom->mark stone, for example.

turns out ty smith and brannstrom might not be as good as their prospect statuses might have indicated. prospects might pan-out, might not... who knows. there's to many variables to consider, but if they're not in your plans, use the asset to improve your roster else where.

the ROR trade is another example. STL wins a Stanley Cup following his acquisition, is a 100+ pt pace team, and it took Thompson 3 years post-trade to figure it out and be an everyday top-6er (draft+6 overall). win-win for both teams i guess (it took BUF years to have it realized though), but STL had ultimate success following the trade which ROR was a huge part of.

Heinola has played more AHL games than Morrissey did, similar draft pick selections...... from what i recall, morrissey's ahl play didn't really get glowing reviews (almost 10 years ago now so i'll concede to a more qualified assessment), and for the majority of his ahl career heinola has been pretty strong (from those account that follow or analyze the league ie: Kyosama here, or Jacob Stoller).

edit:

at the end of the day:

all heinola is asking for a consistent run of games, doesnt hate the city, even went out of his way saying he enjoyed living here. and i dont really blame him, given his ahl play. this team said they dont want another pp dman which leaves me to believe unless something happens to morrissey, pionk or schmidt, heinola will probably not be in the lineup. he's sat quite a bit on the taxi squad or PB.... last season sat for a couple weeks and then got thrown to FLA who was at their peak, but i thought his game improved as he got more nhl play.

Wasn't there a quote from sometime between 20-21 from a GM or executive thought that he was one of the best prospects in the NHL or best overall in Canada?
I can't remember specifics.