Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[None]

We'll have 3(?) waiver eligible defensemen next year that have been on the bubble and have probably deserved a bit more NHL opportunity given their AHL pedigree. None of them really have a clear path onto the NHL roster given our current contract status with veterans. Given that, I can't really say I'm surprised. There's really no path upwards with the Jets unless Cheveldayoff does something.

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I don't think there's much to be learned at the AHL level for prospects like Heinola, Samberg, and Chisholm. At some point they need some time to sink or swim at the NHL level. There'll be warts to their games that they need NHL competition to work out. They're not going to step onto the roster as finished products and that's what it feels like the Jets want from them by letting them stay in the AHL.

I'm curious to know where other GM's peg his value. If/When this hits the main boards it will be one lowball bid after another with a ton of shit offered in exchange to the Jets.

Wasn't there a quote from sometime between 20-21 from a GM or executive thought that he was one of the best prospects in the NHL or best overall in Canada?
I can't remember specifics.

 

[macmaroon]

 

[voyageur]

Not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere:



I'd trade him if that's the case

I mean we're wasting a 1st round pick, probably the best defenseman the team has drafted in the last 7 years, because we needed a guy like Nate Schmidt for the locker room, and his 1 goal. If you're earning 70 000 to play in North America, as a kid who'll be 22 by the end of the season, when you could be making 10x that with the right opportunity I'd be seeking out that opportunity too. The Jets sure had the time for Vesalainen last year, who wasn't even an impact player, hard to say that Ville couldn't help our floundering PP immediately. He will end up being traded, and the Jets will have ruined the development curve of another good prospect. That's not particularly good drafting and development, in my opinion. How long until he is leading the Panthers in ice time as their #1 LD, playing alongside his gold medal winning teammate Anton Lundell?

 

[KingBogo]

We'll have 3(?) waiver eligible defensemen next year that have been on the bubble and have probably deserved a bit more NHL opportunity given their AHL pedigree. None of them really have a clear path onto the NHL roster given our current contract status with veterans. Given that, I can't really say I'm surprised. There's really no path upwards with the Jets unless Cheveldayoff does something.

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I don't think there's much to be learned at the AHL level for prospects like Heinola, Samberg, and Chisholm. At some point they need some time to sink or swim at the NHL level. There'll be warts to their games that they need NHL competition to work out. They're not going to step onto the roster as finished products and that's what it feels like the Jets want from them by letting them stay in the AHL.



Wasn't there a quote from sometime between 20-21 from a GM or executive thought that he was one of the best prospects in the NHL or best overall in Canada?
I can't remember specifics.

And what should they do with their current NHL players on fairly hefty contracts?

 

[None]

And what should they do with their current NHL players on fairly hefty contracts?

I'm not suggesting they necessarily do anything. Just that at some point you need to clear space for prospects or need to utilize the value of those prospects in trades.

 

[Jet]

I'm curious to know where other GM's peg his value. If/When this hits the main boards it will be one lowball bid after another with a ton of shit offered in exchange to the Jets.

The good news is we have control and he's not playing for the big club anyway.

I think this is stupid timing by his agent tbh. The org has shown they don't cowtow to agents or players, and will only make a deal if it's good for the Jets

 

[KingBogo]

I'm not suggesting they necessarily do anything. Just that at some point you need to clear space for prospects or need to utilize the value of those prospects in trades.

IMO the Jets have a plan when they will bring along each of their prospects baring some sort of freight train breakout. I don't think Chevy is in any mood to not try and win now at all costs of developing players in the NHL. The Franchise is on head coach #3 he is next on the clock.

 

[DRW204]

Friedman put out earlier this week jets won't make a trade for their supposed log Jam

Heinola's agent comes out a few days later with this on the same day as kovacevic

 

[Jet]

I mean we're wasting a 1st round pick, probably the best defenseman the team has drafted in the last 7 years, because we needed a guy like Nate Schmidt for the locker room, and his 1 goal. If you're earning 70 000 to play in North America, as a kid who'll be 22 by the end of the season, when you could be making 10x that with the right opportunity I'd be seeking out that opportunity too. The Jets sure had the time for Vesalainen last year, who wasn't even an impact player, hard to say that Ville couldn't help our floundering PP immediately. He will end up being traded, and the Jets will have ruined the development curve of another good prospect. That's not particularly good drafting and development, in my opinion. How long until he is leading the Panthers in ice time as their #1 LD, playing alongside his gold medal winning teammate Anton Lundell?

I disagree wholeheartedly. As has been said many times, Ville is tracking similarly with his peers. While he had a really good camp and mostly good exy, his deficiencies were still there.

Him being the best d prospect we've drafted in 7 years is up for debate, but if it's true I think it points more to not drafting defense well enough.

I'm not anti Heinola at all but he's not some incredible prospect who's shockingly not an nhler. He's a good prospect who's going to have to fight for his spot.

According to those watching the Moose he's not even the best defenseman on that team. Sulking isn't going to get him what he wants, he's gotta grow some balls and force the teams hand by being a star in the AHL.

 

[voyageur]

The good news is we have control and he's not playing for the big club anyway.

I think this is stupid timing by his agent tbh. The org has shown they don't cowtow to agents or players, and will only make a deal if it's good for the Jets

Like trading a former 1st round pick for a 3rd round pick, eating salary on their #2 overall pick, trading him for the #3 overall pick in the same draft. If Heinola chooses to go play in Europe next year for decent money, the Jets have no choice but to trade him, and not at anything near the value he is worth. I think agents know how to create smoke, and the Jets are an easy target. But you start to look at the Jets draft history, and the Jets lost their 2015 1st for a middle round pick, 2015 2nd round pick is now a waiver player, 2016 lottery pick is now a player who will redeem a fraction of that value, or simply walk into free agency for nothing, 2017 1st is a bust, 2017 3rd lost to waivers, 2018 3rd traded for a 4th round pick, 2019 1st is now asking to get out, well these are the guys who should be having an impact on this team, instead the Jets are losing out in their draft currency because of roster decisions. Chevy needs to be accountable for how he is building this team.

 

[Jet]

Like trading a former 1st round pick for a 3rd round pick, eating salary on their #2 overall pick, trading him for the #3 overall pick in the same draft. If Heinola chooses to go play in Europe next year for decent money, the Jets have no choice but to trade him, and not at anything near the value he is worth. I think agents know how to create smoke, and the Jets are an easy target. But you start to look at the Jets draft history, and the Jets lost their 2015 1st for a middle round pick, 2015 2nd round pick is now a waiver player, 2016 lottery pick is now a player who will redeem a fraction of that value, or simply walk into free agency for nothing, 2017 1st is a bust, 2017 3rd lost to waivers, 2018 3rd traded for a 4th round pick, 2019 1st is now asking to get out, well these are the guys who should be having an impact on this team, instead the Jets are losing out in their draft currency because of roster decisions. Chevy needs to be accountable for how he is building this team.

Every gm has good deals and bad deals. Listing every deal you don’t agree with is hardly objective.

 

[CorgisPer60]

And what should they do with their current NHL players on fairly hefty contracts?

Jets love their self inflicted wounds. Traded for one too many defensemen, overpaid for one based entirely on one season's production, and now they can't be traded. Same thing with Wheeler. Just terrible asset management.

 

[voyageur]

Every gm has good deals and bad deals. Listing every deal you don’t agree with is hardly objective.

I'm trying to point how draft and develop is not working because every top 100 pick from 2014-2019 drafts should have an impact in that process, and if they don't you end up trading 2nds, 3rds, etc to fill those holes, and now we are relying on one good draft in 2022 to replenish all those mistakes. It will be worse if the 2021 Russians don't come over to Winnipeg, in my opinion.

 

[ps241]

Not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere:



I'd trade him if that's the case

One thing that is consistent when it comes to our old Canadian Jets coaches. They are comfortable failing with Logan Stanley.

 

[DRW204]

Jets love their self inflicted wounds. Traded for one too many defensemen, overpaid for one based entirely on one season's production, and now they can't be traded. Same thing with Wheeler. Just terrible asset management.

Meanwhile we still give up some of the highest chances against. Bu bu but it's the personnel.... No wait the coaching.... Who gives a shit the GM is in charge of it all.

 

[Jet]

One thing that is consistent when it comes to our old Canadian Jets coaches. They are comfortable failing with Logan Stanley.

I really wish Samberg wouldn't have gotten hurt to see if they were going to give him a run of games.

 

[ps241]

Meanwhile we still give up some of the highest chances against. Bu bu but it's the personnel.... No wait the coaching.... Who gives a shit the GM is in charge of it all.

Its Mark’s section

I really wish Samberg wouldn't have gotten hurt to see if they were going to give him a run of games.

Yea he checks the big box and unlike Logan he is mobile. The Kid has had issues keeping healthy though.

 

[voyageur]

One thing that is consistent when it comes to our old Canadian Jets coaches. They are comfortable failing with Logan Stanley.

What's funny is that Logan Stanley has been probably our best 3rd pairing d-man, paired with De Melo for 3 years running, and his PK metrics are better than Dillon's 2 years in a row, which makes you wonder why the Jets traded for Dillon, and don't have a 2nd round pick this upcoming draft as a consequence, with Samberg, Heinola and Chisholm all knocking on the door.

 

[DRW204]

Its Mark’s section



Yea he checks the big box and unlike Logan he is mobile. The Kid has had issues keeping healthy though.

Didn't get the memo

I've noticed though...

anything bad = chipman,
anything good = Chevy

 

[surixon]

Called it. Not surprised he's frustrated.

 

[surixon]

I'm curious to know where other GM's peg his value. If/When this hits the main boards it will be one lowball bid after another with a ton of shit offered in exchange to the Jets.

Rumblings were he was viewed very highly a year or so ago by other teams. No idea if that has changed or not.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Um, what was Bowness' comment about Heiny? Can we win with this guy? Kinda says it all to me. STFU, pick up your game or go home. Really getting tired of these under-performing, malcontent Finns. Maybe we need to look at our scouting there.

 

[Howard Chuck]

We'll have 3(?) waiver eligible defensemen next year that have been on the bubble and have probably deserved a bit more NHL opportunity given their AHL pedigree. None of them really have a clear path onto the NHL roster given our current contract status with veterans. Given that, I can't really say I'm surprised. There's really no path upwards with the Jets unless Cheveldayoff does something.

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I don't think there's much to be learned at the AHL level for prospects like Heinola, Samberg, and Chisholm. At some point they need some time to sink or swim at the NHL level. There'll be warts to their games that they need NHL competition to work out. They're not going to step onto the roster as finished products and that's what it feels like the Jets want from them by letting them stay in the AHL.



Wasn't there a quote from sometime between 20-21 from a GM or executive thought that he was one of the best prospects in the NHL or best overall in Canada?
I can't remember specifics.

I remember that comment on Heinola.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I’m on Heinola’s side on this. He should be on the big club. He brings what we really need. He would help our PP for starters. Really mobile dman with great vision.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Realistically who comes out of the lineup for him? With the way things are going I doubt they move anyone. We would have to start losing for that too happen. Maybe there is a forward prospect that is blocked and you can make a dealt here because they want a youngish D man.