Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[Blackhawkswincup]

Could have acquired a quality asset for Seabrook potentially a young defender

And we saw last year when Seabs was one of the worst players on team just how much he offered to team while loss of Saad left 1st line in disarray

 

[ChiHawks10]

Could have acquired a quality asset for Seabrook potentially a young defender

And we saw last year when Seabs was one of the worst players on team just how much he offered to team while loss of Saad left 1st line in disarray

And what about Seabs so far this season? Are you happy we still have him? Or wishing he was gone due to his cap hit? Since he's probably been our best Dman through the first 4 games. Small sample size, I know, but historically, he's been a very good player.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Could have acquired a quality asset for Seabrook potentially a young defender

And we saw last year when Seabs was one of the worst players on team just how much he offered to team while loss of Saad left 1st line in disarray

What Dman was replacing his 50pts? Seabrook wasn't as bad as some people made him out to be, playing with AHL defenders all year.

He seems back to himself so far this season, and if that continues, that is worth way more than Saad.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Seabrook longterm will never be a positive for Hawks. And even if he does well this season we will have to worry increasingly about his performance with every coming year

I would rather Saad longterm then Seabrook everytime

And Hawks had no answer for hole they created throwing away Saad so the argument that they didn't have Seabrook replacement ready so couldn't possibly trade him is laughable

 

[ChiHawks10]

Seabrook longterm will never be a positive for Hawks. And even if he does well this season we will have to worry increasingly about his performance with every coming year

I would rather Saad longterm then Seabrook everytime

And Hawks had no answer for hole they created throwing away Saad so the argument that they didn't have Seabrook replacement ready so couldn't possibly trade him is laughable

It's a lot easier to replace a winger(see Panik this year) than it is to replace a top 4 D. A LOT EASIER. Not laughable at all to argue there was no replacement ready. The D was abysmal last year, and there was no replacement anywhere in sight.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

It's a lot easier to replace a winger(see Panik this year) than it is to replace a top 4 D. A LOT EASIER. Not laughable at all to argue there was no replacement ready. The D was abysmal last year, and there was no replacement anywhere in sight.

The D was abysmal last year in large part because of Seabrook's performance

And Forsling/Kempny this year are just as much an upgrade on D as Panik

If your arguing that Panik is a replacement for Saad then I would argue the Hawks D would be fine without Seabrook and with Keith/Hammer/Campbell/Forsling/Kempny/TVR (+ Pokka in mix) instead

 

[Hawkaholic]

The Hawks are looking at the next 3-4 years with this group. Seabrook helps much more in the next 3 years than Saad would have.

You love to bring down players because of 1 bad year as if that's how they are going to play for the rest of their career (see Toews)

The D was abysmal last year because they had 3 top 6 Dmen.

 

[Hawkaholic]

And Hawks had no answer for hole they created throwing away Saad so the argument that they didn't have Seabrook replacement ready so couldn't possibly trade him is laughable

And they would have had no answer for the hole Seabrook would have left on D. Don't even bother comparing Forsling or Kempny to Seabrook.

 

[ChiHawks10]

The D was abysmal last year in large part because of Seabrook's performance

And Forsling/Kempny this year are just as much an upgrade on D as Panik

If your arguing that Panik is a replacement for Saad then I would argue the Hawks D would be fine without Seabrook and with Keith/Hammer/Campbell/Forsling/Kempny/TVR (+ Pokka in mix) instead

None of these were available last year to replace Seabs. TVR DEFINITELY wasn't going to do it, and the proof enough is him being a healthy scratch so far since there are better options using not one, but two NHL rookies.

Pokka wasn't ready for the NHL last season. Pretty obvious in pre-season he needs more time to develop.

So who would have filled the hole in what was our atrocious D last year, if Seabs wasn't here, but Saad was? Because last I checked, their scoring wasn't the biggest problem on the team. The fact there was only three top 6 Dmen, was.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

None of these were available last year to replace Seabs. TVR DEFINITELY wasn't going to do it, and the proof enough is him being a healthy scratch so far since there are better options using not one, but two NHL rookies.

Pokka wasn't ready for the NHL last season. Pretty obvious in pre-season he needs more time to develop.

So who would have filled the hole in what was our atrocious D last year, if Seabs wasn't here, but Saad was? Because last I checked, their scoring wasn't the biggest problem on the team. The fact there was only three top 6 Dmen, was.

There was no one available to fill hole created by moving Saad (And Panik wasn't a Hawk and still is far cry from a Saad replacement)

So if Chi is going to use Panik replacing Saad ,, I will point out we could have eventually replaced Seabrook with lesser talent as well

 

[JaegerDice]

In the grand scheme, I agree giving up Seabrook over Saad would have been the way to go. But the pining for Saad is getting a little out of hand. A 50 point winger is not the difference between a cup and a first round exit on this team.

 

[ChiHawks10]

There was no one available to fill hole created by moving Saad (And Panik wasn't a Hawk and still is far cry from a Saad replacement)

So if Chi is going to use Panik replacing Saad ,, I will point out we could have eventually replaced Seabrook with lesser talent as well

You're still dodging the question. Who was going to replace Seabs last year if we had traded him and kept Saad? And I already said it, but a top 9 winger is much easier to replace than a top 4 D. Much easier. AINEC. Yet you continue to talk about there being no one to fill the hole created moving Saad. So the Hawks would have literally had only two top 6 D on the roster last year... What do you expect to win with a roster built that way?

And if Panik continues his play, so far, throughout the rest of the season, then he is easily a Saad replacement. Yes, he makes a boneheaded play occasionally(most players do, including Saad), but he is more than making up for them with solid to good play, otherwise.

And you say "we could have eventually replaced Seabrook with lesser talent as well", yet you continue to not give a single name of anyone that they could have replaced him with.

Let me ask this question... If we have no Seabs, but have Saad, do you expect we make the playoffs last year? Because Seabs was probably our best Dman throughout the entire time Duncs was out. And while on that topic of conversation... who would our D have been with Seabs gone, AND Duncs out?

 

[ChiHawks10]

In the grand scheme, I agree giving up Seabrook over Saad would have been the way to go. But the pining for Saad is getting a little out of hand. A 50 point winger is not the difference between a cup and a first round exit on this team.

Would Saad over Seabrook probably have been the better choice long term? Yes. I agree with you on that, and BWC, even. I just don't think it was possible to move him(last year)without crippling the D and seeing the Hawks miss the PO's. There was literally no one to step in. Where as with a winger... there's an abundance of them that can fill the need.

 

[Bubba88]

anybody noticed how well Seabrook can Play if TvR isn't his winger? Seabs with Kempny is a good 2nd pair and Seabs looked good so far.

 

[BobbyJet]

You're still dodging the question. Who was going to replace Seabs last year if we had traded him and kept Saad? And I already said it, but a top 9 winger is much easier to replace than a top 4 D. Much easier. AINEC. Yet you continue to talk about there being no one to fill the hole created moving Saad. So the Hawks would have literally had only two top 6 D on the roster last year... What do you expect to win with a roster built that way?

And if Panik continues his play, so far, throughout the rest of the season, then he is easily a Saad replacement. Yes, he makes a boneheaded play occasionally(most players do, including Saad), but he is more than making up for them with solid to good play, otherwise.

And you say "we could have eventually replaced Seabrook with lesser talent as well", yet you continue to not give a single name of anyone that they could have replaced him with.

Let me ask this question... If we have no Seabs, but have Saad, do you expect we make the playoffs last year? Because Seabs was probably our best Dman throughout the entire time Duncs was out. And while on that topic of conversation... who would our D have been with Seabs gone, AND Duncs out?

Let me start by repeating that I love Seabs and the leadership he brings - but to play devil's advocate for a second: Stan could have retained Saad, traded away Seabs and began the inevitable Hawk youth movement early by retaining Johns and throwing him into the fire. From what I see Johns will be passing Seabs in the next few years and is a cheap alternative in the interim.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Let me start by repeating that I love Seabs and the leadership he brings - but to play devil's advocate for a second: Stan could have retained Saad, traded away Seabs and began the inevitable Hawk youth movement early by retaining Johns and throwing him into the fire. From what I see Johns will be passing Seabs in the next few years and is a cheap alternative in the interim.

Agree that they could have done that. But Johns would have been the #1 then, with no Seabs, and no Duncs due to injury. Or the #2, actually, and Hammer would have been the #1. I don't see the Hawks even making the playoffs last year if that were the case. They would have been icing 2 top 6 defensemen for the first 15 games of the season... I know Duncs wasn't out super long, but he also wasn't his usual self until about half-way through the season.

The D would have consisted of Johns, Hammer, Sved, TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Rundblad for the first 15 games, and then the same, but with a non-100% Duncs instead of Sved, Gus, or Rundblad until about the all-star break. I honestly think they miss the playoffs completely last year, if that were the case. I guess they had Daley too, which probably would have been ok, had he been utilized correctly.

 

[BobbyJet]

Agree that they could have done that. But Johns would have been the #1 then, with no Seabs, and no Duncs due to injury. Or the #2, actually, and Hammer would have been the #1. I don't see the Hawks even making the playoffs last year if that were the case. They would have been icing 2 top 6 defensemen for the first 15 games of the season... I know Duncs wasn't out super long, but he also wasn't his usual self until about half-way through the season.

The D would have consisted of Johns, Hammer, Sved, TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Rundblad for the first 15 games, and then the same, but with a non-100% Duncs instead of Sved, Gus, or Rundblad until about the all-star break. I honestly think they miss the playoffs completely last year, if that were the case. I guess they had Daley too, which probably would have been ok, had he been utilized correctly.

And if Seabs was as bad last season as so many here claim (he wasn't) then losing him would have made little difference. In fact (according to those same folks) Hawks would have probably done better without that train wreck in the line-up.

Speaking of Daley. With Letang possibly out for a while it looks like Pens will be happy to have a cheap alternative who can step up his ice time and take up the slack.... just like he did in last year's PO's on the way to the SC win.

 

[ChiHawks10]

And if Seabs was as bad last season as so many here claim (he wasn't) then losing him would have made little difference. In fact (according to those same folks) Hawks would have probably done better without that train wreck in the line-up.

He wasn't as bad as many claim. He was our best Dman when Duncs was out, AINEC.

He wasn't as good as he normally had been after that, and he's been a pretty solid consistent performer most his career, but he was still playing at a top 4 caliber, IMO.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Let me start by repeating that I love Seabs and the leadership he brings - but to play devil's advocate for a second: Stan could have retained Saad, traded away Seabs and began the inevitable Hawk youth movement early by retaining Johns and throwing him into the fire. From what I see Johns will be passing Seabs in the next few years and is a cheap alternative in the interim.

Then how do we trade Sharp? The only reason Dallas took Sharp is if they got Johns.

And if Seabs was as bad last season as so many here claim (he wasn't) then losing him would have made little difference. In fact (according to those same folks) Hawks would have probably done better without that train wreck in the line-up.

Speaking of Daley. With Letang possibly out for a while it looks like Pens will be happy to have a cheap alternative who can step up his ice time and take up the slack.... just like he did in last year's PO's on the way to the SC win.

Seabs wasn't as bad as some say. We probably lose every game that Keith is out for without Seabs, we have zero offense from our D, and our PP is a hell of a lot crappier without Seabs. I doubt we make the playoffs without Seabs last year.

And Daley isn't cheap, he basically accounts for 4.4mil against the Pens cap. (Scuderis retained salary + his cap hit)

 

[hockeydoug]

we have zero offense from our D, and our PP is a hell of a lot crappier without Seabs.

This is why Seabrook is especially valuable to the Hawks.
He's the best and most effective shooter from the blueline, and unlike most of the blueline last year, he can actually make an outlet that the other skaters can do something with.

The Hawks have had other good passers at the blueline, but until they address shooting and passing, most of the overpayment to Seabrook is very tolerable (assuming they're trying to win stil).

He has a big cap hit, but nobody has been close in being able to replace some of what he does. Most of the cap space saved in trading Seabrook would be wasted addressing the holes he leaves anyway.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Sharpie out with a concussion..

http://www.tsn.ca/stars-sharp-suffers-concussion-in-loss-1.589444

Poor guy

 

[JaegerDice]

That sucks. Hope he feels better soon.

Is that his first [documented] concussion?

 

[x Tame Impala]

AFAIK yeah. Tough to hear. Hope it's not something too debilitating

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Weise suspended 3 games

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

No idea how that's 3 if Shaw's slew foot was nothing. Wheel of justice.