Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[JaegerDice]

At this time last year TT + a late 1st was not remotely worth Saad. Not close.

Depends on the 1st. If it's Carolina's or Columbus' 1st? Hell yes, I take TT and the 1st.

 

[hawksrule]

We were obviously speaking of our 1st.

 

[DPHawk]

I'm not even going to get into an argument on Ovechkin. He has pretty much had a point per game in every season he has played, and scored 50 goals last year. Enough said. 71pts in 79GP is close enough for me. 53pts in 82GP doesn't even compare.

Well Cam Atkinson and Justin Williams had the same amount of points as Saad did last year. they must be top line W.

Kessel is debatable because he has done a point per game before, and was actually one of the highest scorers in the league there for a few years. The only reason it is debatable is because of his recent downward trend in points in the regular season. In the playoffs he was basically a point per game, making him an elite W in the playoffs.

And yeah, not many teams have "elite" W's that win the Cup. So why do we need Saad (not that he is elite)?

You're the one with the points based criteria, not me; Saad is easily one of the 60 best wings in the league Atkinson and Williams are not.

I never argued that we needed Saad, only that you're idea of 1W is silly which it obviously is because you have to fudge your qualifications to include players like Ovy and Kessel, but if you think the Hawks can build their team the same way as teams with Malkin and prime Zetterberg as their 2C you are wrong. It's pretty clear how much Bowman thinks we needed wings like Saad considering the price he paid to get Ladd last year.

 

[JaegerDice]

We were obviously speaking of our 1st.

Sorry, misread the post.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You're the one with the points based criteria, not me; Saad is easily one of the 60 best wings in the league Atkinson and Williams are not.

I never argued that we needed Saad, only that you're idea of 1W is silly which it obviously is because you have to fudge your qualifications to include players like Ovy and Kessel, but if you think the Hawks can build their team the same way as teams with Malkin and prime Zetterberg as their 2C you are wrong. It's pretty clear how much Bowman thinks we needed wings like Saad considering the price he paid to get Ladd last year.

You are the one saying Saad is a top line W. I just showed you two guys who got the same amount of points as said, and you said they aren't top line W. What makes Saad a top line W, but not those 2? And again, just because Saad is a top 60 W, doesn't make him a top line W.

Saad isn't close to the level of Ovechkin, it isn't even debatable. the fact that you keep trying to tie Saad to Ovechkin is beyond silly. Ovechkin is a top line W, Saad is not. I'm not fudging anything, those 2 players have proven to be top line W's by scoring at point per game paces throughout their career, while Saad is hovering around 0.60pts/gm.

And yeah, we need good wingers, but not ones that make 6mil+ unless they are elite wingers, Saad is not.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Depends on the 1st. If it's Carolina's or Columbus' 1st? Hell yes, I take TT and the 1st.

It was our first.

So basically, we would not have had TT, Anisimov, or our 1st round pick heading into the beginning of last year. But we would have had Saad at least.

 

[JaegerDice]

It was our first.

So basically, we would not have had TT, Anisimov, or our 1st round pick heading into the beginning of last year. But we would have had Saad at least.

Yeah, I like Saad, but Ill take a 2C, a versatile playmaking forward and a 1st, thanks.

 

[Central PA Hawk Fan]

Man, people are still arguing about Saad? We couldn't afford him, and got a usable piece back, its about all you could hope for in the salary cap league.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Man, people are still arguing about Saad? We couldn't afford him, and got a usable piece back, its about all you could hope for in the salary cap league.

It's getting kind of old, I agree.

I thought that we all agreed that Saad was greedy and priced himself out of Chicago?

 

[BK]

It's getting kind of old, I agree.

I thought that we all agreed that Saad was greedy and priced himself out of Chicago?

How was he greedy?

He wanted to be paid what his market value was at the time.

Are you greedy for asking for a raise at work? No you want to be paid market value.

 

[ChiHawks10]

How was he greedy?

He wanted to be paid what his market value was at the time.

Are you greedy for asking for a raise at work? No you want to be paid market value.

I wasn't being serious. Guess I should have put the emote in there. Just razzing the continued conversation about him when he's gone and not coming back.

 

[BK]

I wasn't being serious. Guess I should have put the emote in there. Just razzing the continued conversation about him when he's gone and not coming back.

My bad if that is the case.

 

[ChiHawks10]

My bad if that is the case.

It's all good BK. Not a big deal. Was mostly my fault for not being straight forward with my sarcasm.

 

[DPHawk]

You are the one saying Saad is a top line W. I just showed you two guys who got the same amount of points as said, and you said they aren't top line W. What makes Saad a top line W, but not those 2? And again, just because Saad is a top 60 W, doesn't make him a top line W.

So they scored the same amount of points last year and that makes them equal?

Saad isn't close to the level of Ovechkin, it isn't even debatable. the fact that you keep trying to tie Saad to Ovechkin is beyond silly. Ovechkin is a top line W, Saad is not. I'm not fudging anything, those 2 players have proven to be top line W's by scoring at point per game paces throughout their career, while Saad is hovering around 0.60pts/gm.

And yeah, we need good wingers, but not ones that make 6mil+ unless they are elite wingers, Saad is not.

Where did I tie Saad to Ovy? All I did is take your definition of a 1W and look at who it applies to, turns out Ovy isn't a 1W by your definition. That is the problem with how you define top wings and has nothing to do with Saad and his ability relative to Ovy.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Semantics, but their aren't 60 first-line wingers, 30 #1C's, or 30 #1D's.

Saad is an excellent top six forward that we had to trade and we sorely miss. Thankfully we received another top 6 forward in return.

 

[hawksrule]

Semantics, but their aren't 60 first-line wingers, 30 #1C's, or 30 #1D's.

Saad is an excellent top six forward that we had to trade and we sorely miss. Thankfully we received another top 6 forward in return.

We didn't "have to" trade Saad. That's the point. As far as being grateful for the downgrade, that's bizarre, but ymmv.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So they scored the same amount of points last year and that makes them equal?


Where did I tie Saad to Ovy? All I did is take your definition of a 1W and look at who it applies to, turns out Ovy isn't a 1W by your definition. That is the problem with how you define top wings and has nothing to do with Saad and his ability relative to Ovy.

They aren't much worse defensively than Saad. What is so special about Saad and his career high 53pts compared to Atkinson and his career high 53pts? It isn't defensive play, Saad may be slightly better, but Saad isn't an elite defensive player.

You keep ignoring Ovechkins career and you are taking 1 year into your conclusions. For Saads career, he is a .60pt/gm player...OV is well above 1pt/gm and scores 50 goals a year. In your definition, Saad is about as equal to Ovechkin as they are both top line W's. But that's so far from it.

 

[JaegerDice]

We didn't "have to" trade Saad. That's the point. As far as being grateful for the downgrade, that's bizarre, but ymmv.

If you're saying trading Seabrook instead would have been the better long-term option, I agree, but as somebody previously said, if that happened, a good fan of posters and fans in general would have complained just as much, if not more.

 

[Hawkaholic]

We didn't "have to" trade Saad. That's the point. As far as being grateful for the downgrade, that's bizarre, but ymmv.

We pretty much did. At the time we weren't gutting our future prospects/picks just to keep a 50-55pt winger. Bickell wasn't movable, so where do you get the cap space from?

 

[DPHawk]

They aren't much worse defensively than Saad. What is so special about Saad and his career high 53pts compared to Atkinson and his career high 53pts? It isn't defensive play, Saad may be slightly better, but Saad isn't an elite defensive player.

You keep ignoring Ovechkins career and you are taking 1 year into your conclusions. For Saads career, he is a .60pt/gm player...OV is well above 1pt/gm and scores 50 goals a year. In your definition, Saad is about as equal to Ovechkin as they are both top line W's. But that's so far from it.

Saad worst offensive season, his rookie year, still comes out to 48 points in an 82 game season, Cam's best season outside of last year is 40 points so that's a pretty good example of taking one year and jumping to conclusions.

My definition of 1W doesn't make Saad and Ovy equals anymore than calling them both wingers or hockey players does, it's just a term that applies to both of them. There are other terms that only apply to Ovy (superstar, elite, ect) without implying that a whole bunch of other players don't adequately fill top line wing spots.

 

[clydesdale line]

They aren't much worse defensively than Saad. What is so special about Saad and his career high 53pts compared to Atkinson and his career high 53pts?

Career high.. Your acting like he's reached his prime as a hockey player. The guy is still improving. So if he scores 55-60 this year, are you gonna say "What is so special about Saad and his career high 55/60 points" next season? Guy also did it with **** centers around him and a lesser team.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Man, people are still arguing about Saad? We couldn't afford him, and got a usable piece back, its about all you could hope for in the salary cap league.

We could afford him if we moved Seabrook which some advocated

Seabrook being kept and extended over Saad was a horrendous mistake and will haunt Hawks for longtime

Saad and No Seabrook > Seabrook + AA

 

[Hawkaholic]

Saad worst offensive season, his rookie year, still comes out to 48 points in an 82 game season, Cam's best season outside of last year is 40 points so that's a pretty good example of taking one year and jumping to conclusions.

My definition of 1W doesn't make Saad and Ovy equals anymore than calling them both wingers or hockey players does, it's just a term that applies to both of them. There are other terms that only apply to Ovy (superstar, elite, ect) without implying that a whole bunch of other players don't adequately fill top line wing spots.

Hey, if you are taking one year and jumping to conclusions (Ovechkin), then I will do the same.

Well then you have a weird definition of a 1W. Because when I hear #1C, or #1D I think of the greats, not the second tier of players at those positions.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Career high.. Your acting like he's reached his prime as a hockey player. The guy is still improving. So if he scores 55-60 this year, are you gonna say "What is so special about Saad and his career high 55/60 points" next season? Guy also did it with **** centers around him and a lesser team.

No I'm not, I'm acting like I am talking about the current hockey players. I have already said Saad could improve, but IMO, i'm not sure he get's much better offensively.

If he scores 55-60pts, he will still be the 50-60 W that I think he is. That doesn't make him elite or a top line W. Getting around a point per game would. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about my point.

And Cam Atkinson scored the same on the same team, is he special too?

 

[Hawkscap]

We could afford him if we moved Seabrook which some advocated

Seabrook being kept and extended over Saad was a horrendous mistake and will haunt Hawks for longtime

Saad and No Seabrook > Seabrook + AA

Yes a team lacking quality D men first move is to trade Seabrook.

Hawks could have afforded Saad for at $5-$5.5 mil. They just would have needed to carry 21-22 players and move Kruger