Has the US underachieved or just had bad luck?

[Big Phil]

I think that honour now belongs to Gudlevskis in the 2014 Sochi Canada vs Latvia game.

Quite possibly. I think the difference is that Richter made more of those "how did that not go in?" types of saves in 1996. I wouldn't say the Latvian goalie robbed us blind, because as many shots as we had I think there were some better scoring chances in the USA/Canada game in 1996. Damphousse getting stopped on that breakaway? My goodness how did Richter keep that puck out of the net?

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Will do.

P.S. Where's your list???

Never said I had a list and I don't reference Wiki. Why aren't Eberle, Duchene, Couture, RNH, MacKinnon, Drouin, Monahan dominating NHL top 30 scorers list ?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Never said I had a list and I don't reference Wiki. Why aren't Eberle, Duchene, Couture, RNH, MacKinnon, Drouin, Monahan dominating NHL top 30 scorers list ?

Because we already have 16 Canadians in the Top 30 and have to leave room for everyone else (smile). Besides, Duchene is # 17. Eberle is 40. MacKinnon is 41. Couture was hurt for 17 games or he would be in the Top 30. As for the rest... Everything in good time, my good man. Everything in good time.

My U.S. List...

Derek Stepan is # 64
Tyler Johnson is # 78
Saad is # 97
Kreider is #147

Please send those guys in 2018. Pretty please.

Looking forward to your U.S. list.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Because we already have 16 Canadians in the Top 30.

Looking forward to your U.S. list.

Never said I had a list and again you are all over the place. This thread is about the 2014 Olympics not 2018.

You referred to players drafted after 2008 so you don't have 16 Canadian players in the top 30 NHL scoring. Go back and count how many were drafted 2008 and after.

Stay on point and stop jumping around.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Here are some of the forwards Canada has produced since 2008... Tavares, Duchene, Hall, Seguin, to name a few.

Four in the top 30 NHL scoring not dominating. Only Tavares medaled in IIHF Junior tournaments.

Good luck on the 2018 Canadian Olympic thread.

 

[Coaster]

I don't think they've underachieved at all. Making it to the finals in 2002 and 2010, fourth place this year. The reason they haven't won gold is because Canada has the depth that no other country can match.

Also, the US has done really well in the last 5 U20's. Two gold medals and a bronze.

WC is a worthless tournament and it shouldn't be played every year.

 

[Canuckistani]

Just to be clear about the OP....

My point is that no one would have guessed in 1996 that the US wouldn't have another senior-level gold 18 years later, especially not with their talent level and apparent momentum at the time.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Four in the top 30 NHL scoring not dominating. Only Tavares medaled in IIHF Junior tournaments.

Good luck on the 2018 Canadian Olympic thread.

Awfully cocky for a nation that hasn't won gold in 34/38 years, no?

Either way, the USA has some great young players, such as Galchenyuk, Trouba, Jones, Eichel, ect.. However, I'm not sure if they'll be ready to make the 2018 squad which is saying a lot (as in, the USA now has some great depth to work with). However, I don't see them matching up to Canada quite yet. I still see McDavid, Seguin, Mackinnon, Drouin, and other being better than the American forwards. Defense is another story, though...

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Awfully cocky for a nation that hasn't won gold in 34/38 years, no?

Either way, the USA has some great young players, such as Galchenyuk, Trouba, Jones, Eichel, ect.. However, I'm not sure if they'll be ready to make the 2018 squad which is saying a lot (as in, the USA now has some great depth to work with). However, I don't see them matching up to Canada quite yet. I still see McDavid, Seguin, Mackinnon, Drouin, and other being better than the American forwards. Defense is another story, though...

Maybe it is the sophomore jinx but Galchenyuk has really disappointed this year - which means the U.S.'s best young forward prospect won't even be drafted until the summer of 2015.

There is an ebb and flow to U.S. development, just like every other country not named Canada. I remember after the 2002 Olympics, The Hockey News had an article saying that the 2004 World Cup and 2006 Olympics would be slim pickings for the U.S. because they had no young, high end talent in the NHL. And, it was not until the 2003 to 2007 drafts, that the U.S. was able to rebuild. The result was a 2010 Silver medal. That same article could be written today about their forwards.

If there is a 2016 World Cup, the U.S. will do well on the small ice. 2018 Olympics, not so much.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

There is an ebb and flow to U.S. development just like every other country not named Canada.

Maybe it is the sophomore jinx but Galchenyuk has really disappointed this year - which means the U.S.'s best young forward prospect won't even be drafted until the summer of 2015.

I remember after the 2002 Olympics, The Hockey News had an article saying that the 2004 World Cup and 2006 Olympics would be slim pickings for the U.S. because they had no young, high end talent in the NHL. And, it was not until the 2003 to 2007 drafts, that the U.S. was able to rebuild - the result being a 2010 Silver medal.

They are in another valley.

I can see where you're coming from. In the 2013 draft, there were only three Americans drafted in the 1st round, which is three down from the 2012 draft. However, in the past few drafts there have been some high-profile American prospects picked in the 1st round, such as Jones, Trouba, and Galchenyuk. Don't forget about Bjugstad, John Gibson, and all of their other high-profile players (Etem, Fowler, John Gibson, and Kreider). While they don't have a high-profile prospect in 2014, 2015 could be huge for them as Hanafin and Eichel could be top five picks. They are definitely headed in the right direction, though I expect Canada's depth to keep them on top of the prospect world (if that makes sense).

In regards to Galchenyuk, I suspect he is having a sophomore slump.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I can see where you're coming from. In the 2013 draft, there were only three Americans drafted in the 1st round, which is three down from the 2012 draft. However, in the past few drafts there have been some high-profile American prospects picked in the 1st round, such as Jones, Trouba, and Galchenyuk. Don't forget about Bjugstad, John Gibson, and all of their other high-profile players (Etem, Fowler, John Gibson, and Kreider). While they don't have a high-profile prospect in 2014, 2015 could be huge for them, as Hanafin and Eichel could be top five picks. They are definitely headed in the right direction, though I expect Canada's depth to keep them on top.

In regards to Galchenyuk, I expect he is having a sophomore slump.

The U.S. looks fine from a defensive point of view. Their offensive prospects are where they have fallen off a cliff...

Bjugstad is a 0.5 point per game player. Kreider and Palmieri as well. Etem is in the minors. Zucker has 5 points. Beau Bennett is always hurt. Coyle has 25 points in 62 games. It goes on and on and on.

 

[DaveG]

The U.S. looks fine from a defensive point of view. Their offensive prospects are where they have fallen off a cliff...

Bjugstad is a 0.5 point per game player. Kreider as well. Etem is in the minors. Zucker has 5 points. Beau Bennett is always hurt. Coyle has 25 points in 62 games. It goes on and on.

Bingo.

Our defense and goaltending are going to keep us in games, but the US seems to never develop the high end skilled players outside the occasional Kessel or Kane type. I don't consider Galchenyuk to be US developed even if he has declared for the US internationally. Eichel should be a good one next year, but will he be ready by 2018?

Thing is we haven't really developed any kind of sustained depth in that regard recently. We can't make the errors of leaving off a Bobby Ryan type guy that numerous other countries can. Not sure whether or not that's just simply due to the mentality of how we develop players here, or on the over-emphasis of competitive results instead of skills development at levels where that's entirely inappropriate. (FWIW US Soccer has the same problem IMO)

 

[An Argument For]

Four in the top 30 NHL scoring not dominating. Only Tavares medaled in IIHF Junior tournaments.

Good luck on the 2018 Canadian Olympic thread.

lol.. 4 in the top 30 of all NHL players. Not 4 in the top 30 of player scoring for that age group. Context, what is it?


But in the top 50 NHL scorers there are 11 players Tavares age (23) or younger..

9 of them are Canadian.

The other 2 are Swedish.

Good thing Canada hasn't been winning the Juniors or we would really be producing players at a serious clip. lolololol

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

lol.. 4 in the top 30 of all NHL players. Not 4 in the top 30 of player scoring for that age group. Context, what is it?


But in the top 50 NHL scorers there are 11 players Tavares age (23) or younger..

9 of them are Canadian.

The other 2 are Swedish.

Good thing Canada hasn't been winning the Juniors or we would really be producing players at a serious clip. lolololol

I agree. We are doing just fine.

 

[Canuckistani]

Good thing Canada hasn't been winning the Juniors or we would really be producing players at a serious clip. lolololol

Yeah, failing to win gold at the WJC doesn't mean top-quality players aren't being produced.

Of the 20 players who saw regular action for the USA at the 1996 World Cup, 15 had WJC experience (with only four winning bronze).

Yet those mediocre US junior teams of the mid/late 1980s and early 1990s ended up leading to a pretty stellar squad down the road.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Yeah, failing to win gold at the WJC doesn't mean top-quality players aren't being produced.

Of the 20 players who saw regular action for the USA at the 1996 World Cup, 15 had WJC experience (with only four winning bronze).

Yet those mediocre US junior teams of the mid/late 1980s and early 1990s ended up leading to a pretty stellar squad down the road.

Yes. The U.S. has, in the last 5 years, produced 2 strong TEAMS at the WJR level - all built from the net out. This came from playing together at the USDP. Not sure how many top end NHL players will come out as a result, tho.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Bingo.

Our defense and goaltending are going to keep us in games, but the US seems to never develop the high end skilled players outside the occasional Kessel or Kane type. I don't consider Galchenyuk to be US developed even if he has declared for the US internationally. Eichel should be a good one next year, but will he be ready by 2018?

Thing is we haven't really developed any kind of sustained depth in that regard recently. We can't make the errors of leaving off a Bobby Ryan type guy that numerous other countries can. Not sure whether or not that's just simply due to the mentality of how we develop players here, or on the over-emphasis of competitive results instead of skills development at levels where that's entirely inappropriate. (FWIW US Soccer has the same problem IMO)

It is only a matter of time. The U.S. may start producing top end offensive talent but go thru a goalie/defensive slump. Everything goes in cycles in life.

As a Canadian, of course, I want this drought to go on as long as possible.

 

[1Gold Standard]

The U.S. looks fine from a defensive point of view. Their offensive prospects are where they have fallen off a cliff...

Bjugstad is a 0.5 point per game player. Kreider and Palmieri as well. Etem is in the minors. Zucker has 5 points. Beau Bennett is always hurt. Coyle has 25 points in 62 games. It goes on and on.

I used to think you were way off base on this one...but the more you argue your point, the more I think you may be right.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I used to think you were way off base on this one...but the more you argue your point, the more I think you may be right.

I am always right, my friend.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

To answer the OP's question...

In 2014, I think the U.S. underachieved.

On paper, they had the 2nd best team. They were the healthiest team. And, if they had beaten Russia in regulation, they could have walked to the GMG - the schedule would have been painfully easy.

The U.S. team beat up on the weak sisters but did not play well against the top teams.

 

[Xokkeu]

I agree. We are doing just fine.

So are we but thanks for your concern.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Awfully cocky for a nation that hasn't won gold in 34/38 years, no?

However, I don't see them matching up to Canada quite yet. I still see McDavid, Seguin, Mackinnon, Drouin, and other being better than the American forwards. Defense is another story, though...

Not cocky at all especially where the US development was before the U20 wins in 2004 and 2010. Canadian forwards drafted 2008 and after are far ahead, pertaining to development, in the NHL so far. You can add goaltending to the US defenseman as looking good.

Again if the US weren't medaling in the U18 and U20 tournaments or out of the Olympics in relegation rounds then I would freely admit that Canada is still way ahead.

How the US played in the 2002, 2010 and 2014 Olympics also tells me that the US Development Program is much better in relation to where it was.

For someone to say this years Olympics was a failure for the US is just plain dumb.

 

[An Argument For]

Not cocky at all especially where the US development was before the U20 wins in 2004 and 2010. Canadian forwards drafted 2008 and after are far ahead, pertaining to development, in the NHL so far. You can add goaltending to the US defenseman as looking good.

Again if the US weren't medaling in the U18 and U20 tournaments or out of the Olympics in relegation rounds then I would freely admit that Canada is still way ahead.

How the US played in the 2002, 2010 and 2014 Olympics also tells me that the US Development Program is much better in relation to where it was.

For someone to say this years Olympics was a failure for the US is just plain dumb.

Depends on when the "was" is.. 1990? Yeah the U.S is much better. In terms of national teams I don't think they've closed the gap at all between the mid 90s - early 2000s to today.

2002 U.S was better, relative to Canada than 2014 U.S. imo.

The U.S is producing more NHL players now but they haven't made much of a leap, if any, in terms of the quantity of star players recently. They do produce a lot but they've plateaued/slightly regressed imo.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

For someone to say this years Olympics was a failure for the US is just plain dumb.

I disagree with this.

This was the best U.S. team since 1996. It was the only team that was healthy - Sweden and Finland's rosters looked like MASH units. The U.S. was a fluky goal post away from losing to Russia. They were dominated by Canada. Finland crushed them. The U.S. did not score an even strength goal against Russia, Canada or Finland. They did not medal.

Not sure how this was anything but a failure.

**

One of the biggest issues many non-American posters had was the immodesty displayed by U.S. fans prior to the games. Best examples (paraphrasing)...

One posters said when Quick got healthy, "Be afraid Canada. Be very afraid!". Another posters wrote, "An American storm is coming to Sochi!!!" A third had a picture of an American hockey player punching Justin Bieber/the Canadian Maple Leaf.

I could go on and on. Then those same posters take exception to being called out after their team falls on their collective faces.

A little modesty goes a long way in this life.

 

[Theokritos]

This was the best U.S. team since 1996.

2002 was better IMO.