Has Dubas failed at his job?

[Leaf Fans]

We haven't won yet, so I guess if the ultimate measure is the Stanley Cup, he hasn't succeeded.

 

[Nylanderthal]

How many of these same threads do we need? Every week the same garbage.
we get it his glasses and shirt pocket offend you….

 

[ottomaddox]

How many of these same threads do we need? Every week the same garbage.
we get it his glasses and shirt pocket offend you….

No one has ever mentioned those things. Fans have reasons because...of reasons.

 

[justashadowof]

Kyle Dubas was the architect of me falling out of love with this current Leafs' generation. Like a hopeless romantic, I envisioned bearded versions of Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, Kadri, Hyman and Gardiner taking turns hoisting the Cup after Matthews, Marner, Rielly and Nylander. Today I'm far less invested in this team. I can barely muster the energy to pretend to care about Freddie Mrazek, Travis Bunting, Jimmy Kase and Nick Ritchie (hey, that one's correct). It's obvious that it's more of the same and quite possibly a weaker roster than the previous season.

 

[ACC1224]

How about 15?

John Wooden won the first of ten NCAA basketball championships in his 16th year at UCLA. Then he won a record 10 in his last 12 seasons. That included a record seven in a row. Often called the greatest coach of all time, but it didn't happen overnight.

According to some of the ideas posted here, he should have been gone long before then.

Not a lot of similarities between College Basketball and NHL Hockey.

 

[Azail]

I am not sure how some fans made it through the actual bad years of this team if they are giving up when we have Matthews, Marner, and Nylander in their primes, as well as a very capable JT. Yea I am sick and tired of losing in the first round too, but my God, do people not remember actual hopelessness with the Leafs?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I voted he hasn't failed. He signed all of the talent contrary to skepticism and every GM in the league would have (and likely tried to) sign Tavares. It's what he does moving forward now that it's obvious something's not working that I will judge him by. Picking Sparks over McElhinney is really the only overt bonehead move he's made.

 

[ottomaddox]

I am not sure how some fans made it through the actual bad years of this team if they are giving up when we have Matthews, Marner, and Nylander in their primes, as well as a very capable JT. Yea I am sick and tired of losing in the first round too, but my God, do people not remember actual hopelessness with the Leafs?

Some of those teams never cheated you for effort. Also TOR came very close to beating BOS as heavy underdogs. Perhaps if Carlyle called a time out...

 

[Canadian Finn]

How many of these same threads do we need? Every week the same garbage.
we get it his glasses and shirt pocket offend you….

very simpleton thought.

almost like a façade to excuse him for real issues.

 

[TheProspector]

Brought in the biggest free agent in the modern era. Just won the division, and took the SCF finalist to 7 games (and the team outplayed them). No major mistakes. Traded for Jack Campbell, who set the league record for consecutive wins. Fired Babcock. FIXED OUR DEFENSE AFTER DECADES IN THE DESERT. Oh, Vegas has handicapped this team as better than last season's division winning roster. And Vegas once again handicaps the Toronto Maple Leafs as the 4th most likely team to win the Stanley Cup this year.

Pretty, pretty good. Definitely better than any of the keyboard jockeys around here would have done. And almost certainly better than anyone else who would have been in that seat.

 

[Ciao]

Not a lot of similarities between College Basketball and NHL Hockey.

I agree.

I still think that unlike players -- whose physical skills will predictably diminish -- coaches and managers should be expected to improve with age and experience. And, the path of improvement will not always be a straight line.

Unlike coaches, whose voices grow stale until they might eventually "lose the room," managers have a longer developmental trajectory. Trying to evaluate their progress over a short period of time is as unreliable as picking winners and losers among your mutual funds. You need to see the big picture to have a better idea what's really happening.

Here, I think the Leafs have a very mediocre team for the coming season. Despite that, Dubas is a very young GM with a lot of experience for his age. I think he has a very bright future ahead of him, and the only question is whether the Leafs will have the patience to stick with him.

If they do, I think it will still take time to build a winner.

If they don't, I think he will build a winner for someone else.

The mistakes that haunt him are in the past, and he's doing a pretty good job now of navigating around them. Professional development is an ongoing process, and the Leafs are wise to invest in that throughout their organization, from top to bottom. It's happening before our eyes.

 

[Ciao]

Brought in the biggest free agent in the modern era. Just won the division, and took the SCF finalist to 7 games (and the team outplayed them). No major mistakes. Traded for Jack Campbell, who set the league record for consecutive wins. Fired Babcock. FIXED OUR DEFENSE AFTER DECADES IN THE DESERT. Oh, Vegas has handicapped this team as better than last season's division winning roster. And Vegas once again handicaps the Toronto Maple Leafs as the 4th most likely team to win the Stanley Cup this year.

Pretty, pretty good. Definitely better than any of the keyboard jockeys around here would have done. And almost certainly better than anyone else who would have been in that seat.

I really like Dubas, but I don't think the Leafs prospects for the coming season are all that rosy. They are handcuffed with a lack of cap space to service the entire roster, and they might be hard pressed to even make the playoffs.

It will be especially hard if they can't carry a full 23-man roster for cap reasons.

That said, sometimes your most successful moments are when you navigate the hard spots.

If Dubas can survive this season and next, I think the future looks bright.

 

[keonsbitterness]

How about 15?

John Wooden won the first of ten NCAA basketball championships in his 16th year at UCLA. Then he won a record 10 in his last 12 seasons. That included a record seven in a row. Often called the greatest coach of all time, but it didn't happen overnight.

According to some of the ideas posted here, he should have been gone long before then.

Aside from the fact that few posters here know who John Wooden was, that was a completely different world. Today, coaches at major NCAA programs rarely get more than five years unless they win. Huge broadcast money changed everything in U.S. college football and basketball.

Not a lot of similarities between College Basketball and NHL Hockey.

There are now. As of this year, NCAA athletes have N.I.L. rights (name, image, and likeness), which allows them to be paid while in college. It has been reported that Alabama's QB has the potential to earn close to a million dollars.
Nick Saban says Alabama QB Bryce Young nearing $1M in NIL deals

 

[ToneDog]

I voted he hasn't failed. He signed all of the talent contrary to skepticism and every GM in the league would have (and likely tried to) sign Tavares. It's what he does moving forward now that it's obvious something's not working that I will judge him by. Picking Sparks over McElhinney is really the only overt bonehead move he's made.

If his only bonehead move was Sparky over McBackup this thread would not exist IMO.

 

[Knies iT]

Some of those teams never cheated you for effort. Also TOR came very close to beating BOS as heavy underdogs. Perhaps if Carlyle called a time out...

Effort? Have you seen Kessel/JVR/Bozak in the d-zone?

 

[Azail]

Effort? Have you seen Kessel/JVR/Bozak in the d-zone?

Lol, he obviously doesn't remember (chooses not to remember) the whole team literally giving up their last year together. Or the multiple 18 wheelers that flew off a cliff. But yea... in a shortened season they almost beat the Bruins. Let's not also forget they had to have one of the worst collapses in team history to lose it.

 

[ponder]

So far, yeah, clearly he has failed. He inherited an unreal young core from Lou - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Hyman, Kadri, Dermott, Holl, Kappy, AJ, Brown, Gards, etc. Plus a solid starting goalie (Andersen), and a great cap situation - Marleau was the only bad contract, and there were lots of great contracts.

So far, in 3 years, he’s turned that into zero playoff series wins and a much worse salary cap situation. While he has made a number of good moves, he’s also made plenty of mistakes, and the big picture to date is a clear failure.

I really like the D he’s put together on limited $ (especially the Muzzin trade and Brodie signing), I think Keefe was a good coaching choice, and I like the Campbell trade. However, he did a terrible job on the Matthews and Marner contract negotiations, and giving Tavares $11 mil when we could have just kept Kadri as our 2C and filled out the supporting cast properly was a massive error. At the end of the day, he’s put us in a position where we have a top-heavy team with poor depth, and that’s a major issue. If we don’t make it out of the first round this year, zero question he should be fired.

 

[makbeer]

He is failing but he has not officially failed until his time here is over.

 

[deprw]

Everyone knows the problems began by caving to Nylander then signing Matthews before Marner. It's been a cluster**** ever since.

I think there were no options for us to negotiate first with Marner and then with Matthews. I think Marner declined contract talks during season and Matthews was willing to negotiate. I don't know if there was short window to sign Marner summer before the season and to gamble with little overpay which would have been needed in that situation to get the player to sign.

We couldn't drag both of those negotiations to that next summer. In that case we would have been on the mercy of other teams, since we had Marleau and Zaitsev still on the books and had to get rid of both. At the same time any of other teams could have offer sheeted Matthews and it would be optimistic to think that no one would have. Four unprotected first rounders from middle of the pack team would have been bargain for Matthews.

We can argue if Tavares was needed, because then we would have had enough cap space, but we have tried acquiring good enough centers from free market and drafting. Best we got were Bozak and Kadri both are over the hill now and not good enough 2nd line centers for contender. It hard calculation to estimate if we could have utilized that cap space any better from free market rather than overpaying our stars and signing Tavares. Drafting trough Lous tenure was bad so we haven't needed that cap space to sign our budding stars. Trough you free agency you almost always overpay some mediocre players.

There is 31 failed GMs every year. It's the perspective you are using for calculating success in this league. Way this leagues structure is build team like us will eventually bleed value year after year, if we don't succeed in drafting trough later rounds. Draft order and salary cap will take care of that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I mean he's not offically fired so he hasn't failed yet, but this is a results based sport, unless you are a Dubas ass kisser, I don't know how you can look at his results and say he's not failing he has yet to win a round

 

[Stonehands1990]

I mean he's not offically fired so he hasn't failed yet, but this is a results based sport, unless you are a Dubas ass kisser, I don't know how you can look at his results and say he's not failing he has yet to win a round

If he had hired a decent coach we probably beat Columbus and Montreal. I think Dubas is an excellent drafter and has supplemented the roster well working around his own overpaid contracts but I have zero hope in Keefe utilizing the players properly after the coaching mistakes I’ve seen the last 2 playoffs. And Keefe is on Dubas

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

If his only bonehead move was Sparky over McBackup this thread would not exist IMO.

I think people are frustrated and need someone to blame. I'm not a giant fan of Dubas but it's not like he choked away a 3-1 series lead. People need to look elsewhere for someone to blame for that tragedy. And really, one more goal in any of those last three games and we're talking about a success instead of massive failure. It really can be that breaks went against them.

 

[Blowfish]

So far, yeah, clearly he has failed. He inherited an unreal young core from Lou - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Hyman, Kadri, Dermott, Holl, Kappy, AJ, Brown, Gards, etc. Plus a solid starting goalie (Andersen), and a great cap situation - Marleau was the only bad contract, and there were lots of great contracts.

So far, in 3 years, he’s turned that into zero playoff series wins and a much worse salary cap situation. While he has made a number of good moves, he’s also made plenty of mistakes, and the big picture to date is a clear failure.

I really like the D he’s put together on limited $ (especially the Muzzin trade and Brodie signing), I think Keefe was a good coaching choice, and I like the Campbell trade. However, he did a terrible job on the Matthews and Marner contract negotiations, and giving Tavares $11 mil when we could have just kept Kadri as our 2C and filled out the supporting cast properly was a massive error. At the end of the day, he’s put us in a position where we have a top-heavy team with poor depth, and that’s a major issue. If we don’t make it out of the first round this year, zero question he should be fired.

This....

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If he had hired a decent coach we probably beat Columbus and Montreal. I think Dubas is an excellent drafter and has supplemented the roster well working around his own overpaid contracts but I have zero hope in Keefe utilizing the players properly after the coaching mistakes I’ve seen the last 2 playoffs. And Keefe is on Dubas

Are we sure he's an excellent drafter? There are some players that look promising but they haven't performed at the NHL level yet, except Sandin, even that is limited

 

[Seras]

The doom and gloom crew at it again I see.

I'm excited to see where Dubas leads this team, winning the cup is all that matters.