Has Dubas failed at his job?

[ToneDog]

So you're saying that he improved the team from 1st round underdog to 1st round favourite?

The question was "Should they have won a playoff series before he got the GM job?". Answer was maybe in year #2.

One cannot deny that they have been the favourite the last two years but those two years had asterisks. This year it is back to the Atlantic so the answer to your question will be apples vs apples (Tampa, Boston, Florida) as opposed to apples vs oranges (CBJ, and Northern division).

 

[Sypher04]

Outsiders perspective? Yes he has

1. Overpaid Marner and Matthews by 2-4 mill combined per year. That's a middle pair D in salary
2. Immediately reset the team's salary structure giving Tavares $11m a year. Tavares was not a need, but rather a luxury
3. As a result of the 2 above, he has forced a cap hell where the team has no depth because there's no space to pay them.

#3 is an issue you see with teams after they win Cups. Issue is Dubas gave out giant contracts like candy to you ELC players without having the Cup(s) under his belt.

I don't know how this continues to need to be said, but Tavares' contract has absolutely nothing to do with what Matthews, Marner and Nylander got paid.

You can certainly argue it wasn't a need, but this idea that it immediately drove up the price of our ELC stars is unsupported garbage and always has been.

 

[Morgs]

No. Don't we have enough of these damn threads that just complain about not making it through a series and blame the guy that is constantly making us better.

 

[Buds17]

I wouldn't suggest that considering the team hasn't regressed under his watch. Failure to improve as a team will eventually have some sort of a cost attached to it though.

 

[hotpaws]

I don't know how this continues to need to be said, but Tavares' contract has absolutely nothing to do with what Matthews, Marner and Nylander got paid.

You can certainly argue it wasn't a need, but this idea that it immediately drove up the price of our ELC stars is garbage and always has been.

so because you say so it's garbage ?

this wouldn't be the first team that players look at their internal comparables when their contract is up so i have no idea why your trying so desperately to shield JT from any criticism

 

[hotpaws]

No. Don't we have enough of these damn threads that just complain about not making it through a series and blame the guy that is constantly making us better.

put the thread on ignore if it upsets you so much

 

[Morgs]

put the thread on ignore if it upsets you so much

Or instead of creating a new thread with the same premise once a week, how about you guys keep talking in the one I've already ignored.

 

[ToneDog]

I don't know how this continues to need to be said, but Tavares' contract has absolutely nothing to do with what Matthews, Marner and Nylander got paid.

You can certainly argue it wasn't a need, but this idea that it immediately drove up the price of our ELC stars is garbage and always has been.

You might be right but do you have proof. Even if it did, you needed to get Matty signed for 8 years at that cap hit, and you needed to tell the Marner camp that Matty was not his comparable and dig in. Instead, Dubas offered Marner 11x7 before July 1st and there was not going back.

 

[Sypher04]

so because you say so it's garbage ?

this wouldn't be the first team that players look at their internal comparables when their contract is up so i have no idea why your trying so desperately to shield JT from any criticism

How would I be shielding JT? He didn't sign himself to that contract, which was below what he could get on the market.

Players look at the wider league comparables. I think it's quite clear if internal cap was what actually mattered, we'd see a lot of guys making significantly less across the league.

And yes, I'm calling it garbage because I firmly believe it to he exactly it to be so. I'm not speaking any differently than anyone else does.

Maybe internal cap can be argued more with your second tier players, but stars are going to get their money and compare to the field

 

[Gary Nylund]

Many markets would kill to have a team that can make the playoffs every year. It sucks that they don't get very far into the playoffs, but you guys need to keep things in perspective.

I wouldn't suggest that considering the team hasn't regressed under his watch. Failure to improve as a team will eventually have some sort of a cost attached to it though.

This is fair and accurate.

 

[Nooodles]

Of course you had to create a new thread for this topic, just to have another, final round of Dubas hating circle jerk before we start the new season in 5 weeks.

 

[Sypher04]

You might be right but do you have proof. Even if it did, you needed to get Matty signed for 8 years at that cap hit, and you needed to tell the Marner camp that Matty was not his comparable and dig in. Instead, Dubas offered Marner 11x7 before July 1st and there was not going back.

There's no doubt mistakes we made. I just think blaming the prices on the Tavares deal is such a prevalent thing people talk about but isn't really supported in any way. And I'd personally say it's a weaker position than saying league comparables are what actually matter

 

[All Mod Cons]

Sam Jose offered JT 13 million

So two teams wanted to over pay him?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Many markets would kill to have a team that can make the playoffs every year. It sucks that they don't get very far into the playoffs, but you guys need to keep things in perspective.

Agreed. I'm very happy with everything that is going on because Arizona and Buffalo wishes they made the playoffs every year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course you had to create a new thread for this topic, just to have another, final round of Dubas hating circle jerk before we start the new season in 5 weeks.

Oh I'd bet quite a bit that this isn't even close to the final round.

 

[ACC1224]

Everyone knows the problems began by caving to Nylander then signing Matthews before Marner. It's been a cluster**** ever since.

 

[Byron Bitz]

But Tavares still wasn't needed when he signed. That cap space was better suited elsewhere (like defense) and he cost himself more cap space by ensuring Matthews/Marner would have higher contract demands. He had a team of elite young players, you surround them with middle 6/2nd pair vets

Tavares overall probably cost the team $15m in cap space per year

The Tavares signing had 0 impact on the Matthews and Marner negotiations. They are not comparables. One is a 27 year old UFA and the others are 21 year old RFA’s.

 

[ToneDog]

So two teams wanted to over pay him?

JT only negotiated with a handful of teams. I'm sure if he opened it up to a wider number of dumb GMs, there would have been more.

 

[hotpaws]

How would I be shielding JT? He didn't sign himself to that contract, which was below what he could get on the market.

Players look at the wider league comparables. I think it's quite clear if internal cap was what actually mattered, we'd see a lot of guys making significantly less across the league.

And yes, I'm calling it garbage because I firmly believe it to he exactly it to be so. I'm not speaking any differently than anyone else does.

Maybe internal cap can be argued more with your second tier players, but stars are going to get their money and compare to the field

agents look at anything that will drive there clients salary higher and in MM's case it was his internal comparables since there weren't any external one's he could use to try to justify the deal he got .

 

[Morgs]

again , there's no need to get worked up by threads you find so disturbing , it literally takes just a few seconds to hit ignore then you can blissfully go back to praising Dubas for another brilliant off season , lol

Where did I even say it was a good off-season? I'm just sick of people complaining it's his fault we can't make it past the first round when the teams results improve each season and people (not me) legitimately thought his TDL was exactly what we needed to get over the hump.

It's just because people like you don't agree with his methodology you hate him. So boring at this point

 

[Suntouchable13]

I wonder if you do the same when someone dare to say a good word about Dubas.

I am trying to be rational here. Shanny himself said there is a lack of killer instinct here. Killer instinct can not be taught. But they are still somehow sticking with the core. There is no accountability here. It’s a country club. Making the playoffs is all that matters. Feasting on bottom feeders during the regular season is fun. Actually doing the right things in the playoffs is hard, and they refuse to do them. Dubas is buddy buddy with the players and the coach. How do you expect this team to do better next year in the playoffs?

 

[All Mod Cons]

No. Don't we have enough of these damn threads that just complain about not making it through a series and blame the guy that is constantly making us better.

Can you explain in detail how he is constantly making better in detail please.

No expected, no per 60, no tried to, no really wanted to, no surprised they didn't - fairy pixie dust shit. Just actual results.

Cheers

 

[egd27]

I don't know how this continues to need to be said, but Tavares' contract has absolutely nothing to do with what Matthews, Marner and Nylander got paid.

You can certainly argue it wasn't a need, but this idea that it immediately drove up the price of our ELC stars is unsupported garbage and always has been.

Yea, no chance anyone from the Orr Group brought up the fact that #1C Matthews would need to be paid more than JT during the negotiations.

No chance Ferris mentioned Marner needed to be in the same income bracket as JT given he outpointed him.

Obviously I, nor anyone else, has conclusive proof as to what was specifically discussed during the negotiations, but let's not be naive here and think the Tavares contract wasn't a factor at all.

 

[Nooodles]

Oh I'd bet quite a bit that this isn't even close to the final round.

Before the season starts, maybe.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Honestly torn on this one. Could go either way I think. It’s interesting how polarizing this guy is, not sure how anybody could go to such extremes on either side of the love/hate spectrum but you see it daily. I will say though that starting last season he changed his methodology and started looking for more grit and veteran presence. People who used to mock the idea of grit and veteran presence being necessary seem to now claim that Dubas has always been constant in that regard; I think that’s bullshit. Nick Ritchie? Wayne Simmonds? Joe Thornton? Many analytical leafs fads would have laughed in your face if you suggested the team should get these players a few years ago.