Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[MuckOG]

The label is ridiculous and just being used to criticize instead of appreciate this kid's talents. I guarantee the schmucks writing paragraph after paragraph about Bedard here didn't watch him play for any significant time and are almost entirely looking at the stat sheet.

I saw this happen in the McDavid threads for years and was a little guilty of it myself. I've come to regret it since 2021 because it just robbed me of enjoying #97's immense talent. It's a complete waste of time to nitpick the games of these caliber of players. @MuckOG , @WhiskeyYerTheDevils , and the like are doing it to satiate themselves because Brock f***ing Faber didn't win a Calder. The Calder, probably the 3rd least important trophy to win. Change your poopy diapers and enjoy watching Bedard.

The kid is going to be just fine. This will be a big season for him as he has some better linemate options to open up more space for him and finish chances he creates for them. I'll have a better idea of what to expect from him after seeing him with a hopefully full and healthy season playing with NHLers. Meanwhile us Hawks fans have no such "generational" label on him whatsoever. We're just excited to watch someone with such incredible talent.

Nobody is not appreciating Bedard's talent. Again, somehow it's become an insult to say Bedard could be the next Kane, Kucherov or Datsyuk. If we don't automatically consider him the next McDavid, Crosby or Ovechkin we aren't "appreciating his talent"?

 

[authentic]

The issue isn’t with projecting him as such. The issue is with many people definitively saying he won’t be in that tier because he didn’t start fast enough for them on a terrible team as an extremely young and immature player. I can just imagine what these people would have been saying about Jagr’s ceiling after his first and second year. It’s very closed minded.

Jagr also played on the 3rd and 4th line his first few seasons but still had an elite playoff run as a 19 year old because he was stuck behind Lemieux and a dynasty of HOF Canadian players on the depth chart. I agree to an extent that of course it’s not written in stone that he can’t attain that level, but when you consider that players like McDavid and Crosby made pretty massive improvements on where they already were as 18 and 19 year olds - which to put simply Bedard is really nowhere close to at this moment - the level of improvement he’d have to make as an overall player would be nearly unprecedented even for someone with his obvious offensive gifts and draft pedigree. You have to realize many analysts and even people I’ve discussed this with who have played hockey at a high level - even those who have stated Bedard was as good if not better than McDavid as a 17 year old in Junior - have more or less said it’s a foregone conclusion he won’t dominate in the NHL like McDavid has because of the obvious skating advantage McDavid has over everyone else. That’s why it’s more realistic IMO to expect a Kucherov type that can still be an offensive dynamo but not the hands down best player in the game for close to a decade.

 

[the valiant effort]

If we’re not going to occasionally make definitive statements about the future unknowns in hockey, what are we even doing here at HockeysPresent.com?

 

[Brookbank]

The issue I have with the term generational is that there is no widely accepted definition and these discussions always follow semantics on the definition itself.

As long as generational means 5 different things it doesn't actually mean anything.

There really was nothing to discuss until some ppl came along and decided to argue that Bedard wasn't generational.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Nobody is not appreciating Bedard's talent. Again, somehow it's become in insult to say Bedard could be the next Kane, Kucherov or Datsyuk. If we don't automatically consider him the next McDavid, Crosby or Ovechkin we aren't "appreciating his talent"?

Whiskey and yourself are constantly arguing against Bedard's abilities. All over some stupid label. Go back and count all of your posts in this thread, let alone the Calder thread last year. It's like a dissertation at this point. Blah blah blah defense, +/-, PPG, etc...you think these are arguments in your case but all it shows me is you have no context to your argument. If you really watched him last year you'd see the sky is the limit for this kid.

All over some stupid label stemming from Bedard tearing up the CHL and junior tournaments. At the end of the day it's all you're doing and I'm telling you that I was doing the same in a lot of Connor McDavid threads for years and looking back on it all it was entirely stupid of me. You're depriving yourself of enjoying watching him whether you realize it or not, you probably don't watch him anyway so that point may be moot anyway. You two are endlessly spouting off against some stupid fan-made narrative about him being the next great player in the league.

TLDR: It's too early to tell and both of you couldn't be more obnoxious in these discussions

 

[MuckOG]

Whiskey and yourself are constantly arguing against Bedard's abilities. All over some stupid label. Go back and count all of your posts in this thread, let alone the Calder thread last year. It's like a dissertation at this point. Blah blah blah defense, +/-, PPG, etc...you think these are arguments in your case but all it shows me is you have no context to your argument. If you really watched him last year you'd see the sky is the limit for this kid.

All over some stupid label stemming from Bedard tearing up the CHL and junior tournaments. At the end of the day it's all you're doing and I'm telling you that I was doing the same in a lot of Connor McDavid threads for years and looking back on it all it was entirely stupid of me. You're depriving yourself of enjoying watching him whether you realize it or not, you probably don't watch him anyway so that point may be moot anyway. You two are endlessly spouting off against some stupid fan-made narrative about him being the next great player in the league.

TLDR: It's too early to tell and both of you couldn't be more obnoxious in these discussions

You won't find a post in this thread where I state that Bedard won't be a great player.

 

[Crow]

He is stating that Bedard already is generational. And comparing Bedard to Kane or Kucherov is like comparing McDavid to Jonathon Toews.

Yeah I’ve taken issue with a lot of what that guy said but it doesn’t excuse some of the other bs in this thread.

 

[Blue and Green]

Except both of those players were far better than Bedard is at the same age. There are legitimate obvious factors why Crosby and McDavids dominance translate better in the NHL, McDavids speed and overall skating ability and same with Crosby except his otherworldly lower body strength and puck protection more so than being the fastest player, although he wasn’t far from that before the high ankle sprain either. Bedard can be a Kane or a Kucherov, perhaps slightly better. I would say prepare for disappointment if you’re expecting a contender for 5th best player of all-time which is what Crosby and McDavid are.

But how do you square the argument that he can't become as good as Crosby and McDavid because they were better at the same age, but can only become as good as Kane or a tiny bit better when he has always been clearly better than Kane at the same age?

 

[PainForShane]

Rank v peers (min 20gp)	Gretzky	Lemieux	Crosby	McDavid	Bedard
Points per game rank	1st	9th	6th	3rd	58th
Goals per game rank	9th	12th	19th	37th	88th
82 game scoring pace	142p	112p	107p	91p	75p

One of these things is not like the others.


Lafreniere was very poor in his first few years, but you'll have to quote me where I said he had no chance to still become a very good player - his biggest issue was his lack of engagement and hesitation to make plays quickly - Laviolette has been a huge factor in helping him turn the corner and its great to see.

My initial projection of him was to become a 70-80 point power winger. My draft comparison was a more skilled, less physical Landeskog (without the toughness) and people called me a hater. Seems pretty accurate at this point, no?

Maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow, and maybe I won't.

That's how you sound.

I don't know about other people, personally I believe you are a hater because you continue to go significantly out of your way to continue to broadcast some version of "there is no chance Bedard will be generational because his rookie year production was comparatively low." And here you are lecturing me on how you think I sound. Has it ever occurred to you that no one listens to haters?

Bedard just finished his rookie year and is 19 years old. As everyone knows, plenty of generational athletes don't dominate every step of the way -- Michael Jordan (at 21) went 3rd overall in the draft, his first couple years were nothing special. Tom Brady went #199 overall. Djokovic took forever to start beating Roger and Rafa, now with Rafa retiring Novak is going to finish with more hardware / weeks at number one than either of those guys, and also a better head to head record against both.

Your argument is dumb. I also think you're a hater, but that's not my primary point here, you're the one who brought that up.

 

[Video Nasty]

And with Palffy and Recchi gone, Crosby scored 33 points in his final 19 games of the season, a 142 point pace with Andy Hilbert and Colby Armstrong as his wingers. In those 19 games, he built up a 13 point lead on the next highest scoring Penguin, which prorates to 56 points over an 82 game season.


He only played 8 less games than Kurashev, and only 80 less minutes. He was never going to come close to the type of separation we saw from Sid. Give him those games/minutes back and he maybe scores 13-15 more points than Kurashev in 75 games.

Crosby created that same gap in 19 games.

What's your excuse for him scoring less goals and goals per 60 than Jason Dickinson? I noticed you completely ignored that. I'd love to hear your excuses for his WC play as well, but I'm sure that'll be ignored

It's funny watching people like you simultaneously worship at the altar of junior hockey stats while attempting to discredit actual NHL performance.

It’s almost as if Crosby didn’t have his progress as a rookie derailed by exiting with an injury in the first half and sitting for six weeks, played for a team that scored 65 more goals, and had 260 more PPOs. We’ll never know what an uninterrupted rookie campaign would have looked like for Bedard, but based on what he showed while playing, 90 points seemed likely.

 

[Blue and Green]

What's your excuse for him scoring less goals and goals per 60 than Jason Dickinson?

Your hero, Jack Hughes, scored 3 ES goals in his rookie season. He's turned out alright.

 

[authentic]

But how do you square the argument that he can't become as good as Crosby and McDavid because they were better at the same age, but can only become as good as Kane or a tiny bit better when he has always been clearly better than Kane at the same age?

No he could become that good, but it makes more sense to have him above Kane and Kucherov somewhat, but below Crosby. I also hope I am wrong and he is the next Crosby to be perfectly honest with you. More or less he looks as good to me as rookie Kane and not close to rookie Crosby after his 1st NHL season. We’ll see how he does in year two.

 

[MuckOG]

Your hero, Jack Hughes, scored 3 ES goals in his rookie season. He's turned out alright.

No one is equating Jack Hughes with Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid.

 

[BHawk21]

Lemieux put up 100 points as an 18 year old and Jagr is not a generational player, IMO. Also, I'm not going to consider stats from the 1940's....it was a completely different game back then.

Lemieux didnt play a game in the NHL when he was 18. He was in the QMJHL.

In no way do I think Bedard will be close to Lemieux Mcdavid Gretzky but he could push for 100 points this year. Thats not out of the question.

 

[x Tame Impala]

In his second NHL season, Bedard is still the 3rd YOUNGEST player in the league.

 

[Blue and Green]

No he could become that good, but it makes more sense to have him above Kane and Kucherov somewhat, but below Crosby. I also hope I am wrong and he is the next Crosby to be perfectly honest with you. More or less he looks as good to me as rookie Kane and not close to rookie Crosby after his 1st NHL season. We’ll see how he does in year two.

That's an evolved statement from saying he could be Kane or slightly better. The large majority of people are quite aware that the McDavid-Crosby level is not going to be easy for Bedard to reach, but there's a substantial gap between those guys and Kane.

No one is equating Jack Hughes with Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid.

The point was obvious to anyone who cared to grasp it.

 

[Brookbank]

Your hero, Jack Hughes, scored 3 ES goals in his rookie season. He's turned out alright.

One of his going narratives is that Jack Hughs is probably better than Bedard too

 

[varsaku]

Nobody is not appreciating Bedard's talent. Again, somehow it's become an insult to say Bedard could be the next Kane, Kucherov or Datsyuk. If we don't automatically consider him the next McDavid, Crosby or Ovechkin we aren't "appreciating his talent"?

Linemates make a huge difference. Look who McDavid, Crosby or Ovechkin had versus what Bedard has to work with. That itself will drag down his performance even if he is capable of more.

 

[thefutures]

This will make the lafreniere threads look like child's play

 

[GrumpyKoala]

He a great player but imo he still a bit overrated

 

[x Tame Impala]

No he could become that good, but it makes more sense to have him above Kane and Kucherov somewhat, but below Crosby. I also hope I am wrong and he is the next Crosby to be perfectly honest with you. More or less he looks as good to me as rookie Kane and not close to rookie Crosby after his 1st NHL season. We’ll see how he does in year two.

Kane is likely retiring with 1400-1500 career points, good for top 20 all time, amongst all of his other accolades. So all this bickering is over some gap between Patrick Kane and Crosby/McDavid??? Seems like a lot of bickering over some meager difference.

 

[Brookbank]

This whole thing came up because there's some Jack Hughs fans who want to argue that Jack Hughs is the best player in the league , of this new crop. Which is fine. But there's Bedard. One way to accomplish this is to cut Bedard down a bit.

 

[Brookbank]

Kane is likely retiring with 1400-1500 career points, good for top 20 all time, amongst all of his other accolades. So all this bickering is over some gap between Patrick Kane and Crosby/McDavid??? Seems like a lot of bickering over some meager difference.

Alex Semin tried to argue that Kane was better than Crosby. Either way , there is a gap. Generational or not.

Semin: What’s so special about Crosby?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Alex Semin tried to argue that Kane was better than Crosby. Either way , there is a gap. Generational or not.

Semin: What’s so special about Crosby?

There's a great poll series on the "Polls" section of HF ranking the top players of the 21st Century so far. These are the results at present...

Who is the 20th best player so far in the 21st Century?

20th in a series of 25 polls inspired by a recent ESPN poll. So far this is the top 19 are 1.Crosby 3. Ovechkin 3. McDavid 4. Lidstrom 5. Malkin 6. Brodeur 7. Kucherov 8. Kane 9. Mackinnon 10. Pronger 11. Datsyuk 12. Chara 13. Karlsson 14. Thornton 15. Draisaitl 16. Keith 17. Lundqvist...

forums.hfboards.com

1.Crosby
2. Ovechkin
3. McDavid
4. Lidstrom
5. Malkin
6. Brodeur
7. Kucherov
8. Kane
9. Mackinnon
10. Pronger
11. Datsyuk
12. Chara
13. Karlsson
14. Thornton
15. Draisaitl
16. Keith
17. Lundqvist
18.Stamkos
19. Kopitar

Personally I think Kane is better than Kucherov BUT if we're arguing Bedard finishes somewhere between Kane and Crosby/McDavid that's still f***ing incredible company to keep so what's the point of all the hand-wringing from some of these posters?

If Bedard slots into a tier of player with: Lidstrom, Brodeur, Malkin, Kucherov, Kane, and MacKinnon...and is in the same company as anyone from Pronger to Kopitar then you'd have to be insane to say Bedard is overrated or had an underwhelming career based on expectations.

This generational tag is mere hyperbole and you have to make the conscious choice to eat it up or not. It is a fair point to say "juniors numbers don't translate to a generational NHLer". No argument from me there. I just don't see how the juice is worth the squeeze to spend an entire season in a Calder thread or now in this thread for the upcoming season, OBSESSIVELY critiquing the play of CB98 just to say he's not going to be a Top4 player of the 21st century, only a Top8. It's insanity.

Now I'm ranting . I've said my piece and I'm out. Bedard is on pace for 162 points this year by the way so LFG!!!

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Your hero, Jack Hughes, scored 3 ES goals in his rookie season. He's turned out alright.

Yep, and nobody was comparing him to McDavid or Crosby.

It’s almost as if Crosby didn’t have his progress as a rookie derailed by exiting with an injury in the first half and sitting for six weeks, played for a team that scored 65 more goals, and had 260 more PPOs. We’ll never know what an uninterrupted rookie campaign would have looked like for Bedard, but based on what he showed while playing, 90 points seemed likely.

90 points did not seem likely. And even if it was, that still would have put him way behind Sid in terms of relative scoring.