Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[Crow]

At this point let Bedard and hawks play this season

If he is a generational player he will be a hart finalist or ross top 3/4 finisher this year

If he is an elite/franchise player he will get 85-95 pts

Lets see how his 2nd season goes.

Right now its an uphill battle as his D+1/rookie year was not of a generational players level

He’s not going to be a hart finalist even if he wins the art ross. Why don’t you understand that? And it doesn’t really matter if he reaches his peak this year. It could be in two years.

 

[hamzarocks]

He’s not going to be a hart finalist even if he wins the art ross. Why don’t you understand that?

If he wins the ross the hawks will be a playoff team and he will be a hart favorite

He can also be a hart finalist if hawks finish just outside the playoffs

We have seen Norris Winners going to Fox and Karlsson despite missing the playoffs in 2021 and 2023

 

[Crow]

If he wins the ross the hawks will be a playoff team and he will be a hart favorite

No they won’t.

 

[MuckOG]

The issue I have with the term generational is that there is no widely accepted definition and these discussions always follow semantics on the definition itself.

As long as generational means 5 different things it doesn't actually mean anything.

This is a huge part of it. Because it's a subjective term, there will always be disagreements about who deserves the tag of "generational"

Personally, I look at a "generational" player as one that is one of the top 1 or 2 players in the NHL over an extended period of time. Players that were clearly ahead of the other players of their time. Orr dominated the early 70's, Gretzky dominated the 80's and early 90's, Lemieux dominated the late 80's and 90's, Crosby and Ovechkin the mid-00's until McDavid came on the scene who is the clear generational talent of this period of time until another player says otherwise.

 

[GOilers88]

The issue I have with the term generational is that there is no widely accepted definition and these discussions always follow semantics on the definition itself.

As long as generational means 5 different things it doesn't actually mean anything.

It just seems to mean really good player. Everyone is generational these days, ask Vladdy Jr.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The fact that Chicago's depth lines couldn't score isn't a great excuse for why Bedard struggled. Generational talents are expected to produce, no excuses. Crosby outscored the next highest Penguin by 44 points. Meanwhile, Bedard scored all of 7 more points than Kurashev, and wasn't even the best 5v5 goal scorer on his team - that honor again belonged to Jason ****kin Dickinson, who finished with more 5v5 goals and a higher 5v5 g/60 than Bedard. Dickinson also finished with career highs in goals and points last year (and no, that had nothing to do with Bedard, they didn't even together until the very end of the year, when Bedard was moved to his wing).

Ohh man. So many bad faith arguments in here I don’t even know where to start.

Crosby outscored the next highest penguin by 44pts because Palffy was injured/retired and Recchi was traded. Both were on pace for around a PPG

Bedard only outscored his teammates by 7pts because he missed 14 games.

By your logic, McDavid was garbage his rookie season because he was only 3rd on his team in points, right?

But McDavid did torch the league at 18 years old, he was 3rd in the NHL in PPG. Bedard was 58th.

Sounds like poor Connor had no help at all! That 20-year-old Ovechkin had participation on 44% of Capitals goals, and the lone warrior Bedard had points on 34% of Hawks goals proves it... oh wait. #facts

Listen, 22 goals and 61 points is a fine rookie season. Bedard will only improve on it. No need to present it like it's comparable to the rookie seasons of the greatest phenoms NHL has ever seen.

Yes and Ovi was 20. Let’s see how Bedard does in two years to compare

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ohh man. So many bad faith arguments in here I don’t even know where to start.

Crosby outscored the next highest penguin by 44pts because Palffy was injured/retired and Recchi was traded. Both were on pace for around a PPG

And with Palffy and Recchi gone, Crosby scored 33 points in his final 19 games of the season, a 142 point pace with Andy Hilbert and Colby Armstrong as his wingers. In those 19 games, he built up a 13 point lead on the next highest scoring Penguin, which prorates to 56 points over an 82 game season.

Bedard only outscored his teammates by 7pts because he missed 14 games.

He only played 8 less games than Kurashev, and only 80 less minutes. He was never going to come close to the type of separation we saw from Sid. Give him those games/minutes back and he maybe scores 13-15 more points than Kurashev in 75 games.

Crosby created that same gap in 19 games.

What's your excuse for him scoring less goals and goals per 60 than Jason Dickinson? I noticed you completely ignored that. I'd love to hear your excuses for his WC play as well, but I'm sure that'll be ignored

It's funny watching people like you simultaneously worship at the altar of junior hockey stats while attempting to discredit actual NHL performance.

 

[BlueMed]

I'm not sold he will stick at center. Once the Blackhawks become more competitive in 3-4 years, his defensive tendencies and ability to matchup against bigger, faster, and stronger forwards in the playoffs will be revealed. I think he's probably better suited on the wing and will be a hybrid between Kane and Matthews, which is nothing short of remarkable but not generational.

 

[authentic]

Bedard was an exceptional status player just like McDavid. And put up equal/better numbers in junior on worse teams. But whatever you say; that's what receipts are for.

Except both of those players were far better than Bedard is at the same age. There are legitimate obvious factors why Crosby and McDavids dominance translate better in the NHL, McDavids speed and overall skating ability and same with Crosby except his otherworldly lower body strength and puck protection more so than being the fastest player, although he wasn’t far from that before the high ankle sprain either. Bedard can be a Kane or a Kucherov, perhaps slightly better. I would say prepare for disappointment if you’re expecting a contender for 5th best player of all-time which is what Crosby and McDavid are.

 

[PainForShane]

It's not at all too early. Did we even have to ask that question of any of the recent big 4 generational forwards when they were teenagers? Absolutely not - it was already very clear that they were on track to be generational players by the time they were 19. The fact is that he's very clearly not tracking anywhere near those 4, and the "it's too early to tell" logic falls apart when we've never seen a generational NHL forward make the sort of massive course correction he'd need to make to catch up.

I'm referring to Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, and McDavid, if that wasn't clear.

This is an insane point of view to have and to continue to argue. Bedard was labeled by many (most?) as potentially generational prior to the draft, he just finished his rookie season which went pretty well, even moreso when you consider how weak Chicago's top six was last year.

Looking forward to seeing you write post after post about Bedard just like you did with Laf -- ie pretend he's some scrub for years before you finally realized you're just human like the rest of us and couldn't predict the future. Except apparently you didn't realize this because it seems like you're doing a similar thing with a completely different young NHLer. Again.

Anyway, my point is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here knows with for certain how Bedard's career will end up. Maybe he will end up generational, maybe he won't, who knows. Seems like an obvious statement to make, I find it very weird that anyone would repeatedly go out of their way to argue against this very basic idea.

Good luck to you, in life.

 

[authentic]

McDavid still managed to put up a PPG season, something that Bedard couldn't do.

I just don't think that Bedard has the size to be able to replicate what other "generational" players have done. I think he will be one of the best players in the league for a long time (assuming good health) and will probably win some awards along the way. He may even be the best player in the league for a couple of years. I just don't see him finishing his career and being thought of like a Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby or McDavid.

He's closer to a Kane, Kucherov, Datsyuk type of tier. All time great players, but not "generational".

Not just point per game, McDavids points per game that season was good for 3rd or 4th in the league, right around where Crosby and all the other top scorers had in that defensive shitshow the league hadn’t escaped from yet.

 

[authentic]

This is a huge part of it. Because it's a subjective term, there will always be disagreements about who deserves the tag of "generational"

Personally, I look at a "generational" player as one that is one of the top 1 or 2 players in the NHL over an extended period of time. Players that were clearly ahead of the other players of their time. Orr dominated the early 70's, Gretzky dominated the 80's and early 90's, Lemieux dominated the late 80's and 90's, Crosby and Ovechkin the mid-00's until McDavid came on the scene who is the clear generational talent of this period of time until another player says otherwise.

Exactly. There’s no guarantee a young to mid 20s Bedard will even be better than a late 20s early 30s McDavid. I don’t understand how it’s seen as a criticism to project him a level below.

 

[Crow]

Exactly. There’s no guarantee a young to mid 20s Bedard will even be better than a late 20s early 30s McDavid. I don’t understand how it’s seen as a criticism to project him a level below.

The issue isn’t with projecting him as such. The issue is with many people definitively saying he won’t be in that tier because he didn’t start fast enough for them on a terrible team as an extremely young and immature player. I can just imagine what these people would have been saying about Jagr’s ceiling after his first and second year. It’s very closed minded.

 

[JoeSakic13]

We talking about the same guy who they edit in a tag of his name tracking his every shift?

No.

 

[MuckOG]

The issue isn’t with projecting him as such. The issue is with many people definitively saying he won’t be in that tier because he didn’t start fast enough for them on a terrible team as an extremely young and immature players I can just imagine what these people would have been saying about Jagr’s ceiling after his first and second year. It’s very closed minded.

No, the issue is someone in this thread saying that Bedard already is a generational player based on his junior stats.

And I wouldn't call Jagr a generational player either, unless we are lowering the bar.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This is an insane point of view to have and to continue to argue. Bedard was labeled by many (most?) as potentially generational prior to the draft, he just finished his rookie season which went pretty well, even moreso when you consider how weak Chicago's top six was last year.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Rank v peers (min 20gp)[/TD]
[TD]Gretzky[/TD]
[TD]Lemieux[/TD]
[TD]Crosby[/TD]
[TD]McDavid[/TD]
[TD]Bedard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points per game rank[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]9th[/TD]
[TD]6th[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]58th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Goals per game rank[/TD]
[TD]9th[/TD]
[TD]12th[/TD]
[TD]19th[/TD]
[TD]37th[/TD]
[TD]88th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]82 game scoring pace[/TD]
[TD]142p[/TD]
[TD]112p[/TD]
[TD]107p[/TD]
[TD]91p[/TD]
[TD]75p[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

One of these things is not like the others.

Looking forward to seeing you write post after post about Bedard just like you did with Laf -- ie pretend he's some scrub for years before you finally realized you're just human like the rest of us and couldn't predict the future. Except apparently you didn't realize this because it seems like you're doing a similar thing with a completely different young NHLer. Again.

Lafreniere was very poor in his first few years, but you'll have to quote me where I said he had no chance to still become a very good player - his biggest issue was his lack of engagement and hesitation to make plays quickly - Laviolette has been a huge factor in helping him turn the corner and its great to see.

My initial projection of him was to become a 70-80 point power winger. My draft comparison was a more skilled, less physical Landeskog (without the toughness) and people called me a hater. Seems pretty accurate at this point, no?

Anyway, my point is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here knows with for certain how Bedard's career will end up. Maybe he will end up generational, maybe he won't, who knows. Seems like an obvious statement to make, I find it very weird that anyone would repeatedly go out of their way to argue against this very basic idea.

Maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow, and maybe I won't.

That's how you sound.

 

[Crow]

No, the issue is someone in this thread saying that Bedard already is a generational player based on his junior stats.

Don’t think anyone said that. Generational prospect maybe.

Also it’s pretty stupid to imply there is only one issue here.

 

[MuckOG]

Don’t think anyone said that. Generational prospect maybe.

Also it’s pretty stupid to imply there is only one issue here.

Read post #250

 

[DemidovSaveUs]

He puts up a lot of scammy points not playing defense. He’s an incredible talent but he didn’t take over games last year the way rookie Sid and McDavid did. Those comparisons aren’t very valid.

 

[Kegs]

I personally am responsible for over rating Bedard. I love this kids game and I think he will be one of the best players in the world in a couple years.

 

[Crow]

Read post #250

I’m not sure if he is saying he is generational or if people generally attach the generational label very early. The second appears to be true.

 

[MuckOG]

I’m not sure if he is saying he is generational or if people generally attach the generational label early.

He is stating that Bedard already is generational. And comparing Bedard to Kane or Kucherov is like comparing McDavid to Jonathon Toews.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Name a "generational" player who didn't torch the league at 18 years old.

Mario Lemieux
Gordie Howe
Jaromir Jagr

 

[MuckOG]

Mario Lemieux
Gordie Howe
Jaromir Jagr

Lemieux put up 100 points as an 18 year old and Jagr is not a generational player, IMO. Also, I'm not going to consider stats from the 1940's....it was a completely different game back then.

 

[x Tame Impala]

The issue I have with the term generational is that there is no widely accepted definition and these discussions always follow semantics on the definition itself.

As long as generational means 5 different things it doesn't actually mean anything.

The label is ridiculous and just being used to criticize instead of appreciate this kid's talents. I guarantee the schmucks writing paragraph after paragraph about Bedard here didn't watch him play for any significant time and are almost entirely looking at the stat sheet.

I saw this happen in the McDavid threads for years and was a little guilty of it myself. I've come to regret it since 2021 because it just robbed me of enjoying #97's immense talent. It's a complete waste of time to nitpick the games of these caliber of players. @MuckOG , @WhiskeyYerTheDevils , and the like are doing it to satiate themselves because Brock f***ing Faber didn't win a Calder. The Calder, probably the 3rd least important trophy to win. Change your poopy diapers and enjoy watching Bedard.

The kid is going to be just fine. This will be a big season for him as he has some better linemate options to open up more space for him and finish chances he creates for them. I'll have a better idea of what to expect from him after seeing him with a hopefully full and healthy season playing with NHLers. Meanwhile us Hawks fans have no such "generational" label on him whatsoever. We're just excited to watch someone with such incredible talent.