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Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread: Part XII
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I don't think it's fair to ask players to try and provide a counterweight to the coaching staff--especially in the AHL where players are trying to establish and advance their careers. Coaches have a huge amount of power to derail a young player's career.Mostly, all players can do is put their heads down, following what the coaching staff tells them to do and hope things change for the better.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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Yes. That’s a good point. But I wasn’t suggesting players necessarily go against the coaching staff. Just that it’s a group effort. Good leadership includes the players and especially a vet like Beleskey.
Not concluding anything, just saying it’s probably not totally fair to lay all the blame on the coach last year.
In an ideal world, certainly and NHL captains do have a certain amount of power they can use--but they still serve at the convenience of their coaches.
But we're talking about the AHL where players come and go from a team all the time--making it much harder for players to affect the atmosphere around a team. I'm not even sure if there was a captain on the Wolfpack when the incident Beleskey discribed happened. Also, we have to remember that even the most dominant captains have to learn their craft--both on the ice and in the lockeroom.
Plus, this last week in hockey really showed how much control coaches have. Their actions are rarely questioned and even when they step over the line--Peters essentially assaulted his players on the bench during a game and the situation was reported to the GM. It ended there without the owner of Carolina even knowing what happened. Would Calgary even hired Peters if they knew what Peters had done? Will there be any repercussions for Ron Francis (former GM of Carolina) because he never informed his boss?
Leadership starts at the top of the power structure. Fortunately, it sounds like the Ranger organization have taken the right steps to make the Wolfpack a better team and a better organization to play for.
This ridiculous delay is because of a Teddy Bear Toss, for anyone following the Hartford game but not listening or watching.
Svenhart2008
Registered User
Fogarty with his 2nd to tie the game late after Andersson takes another bad late penalty his second in as many nights. Not for nothing but Fogarty has been Hartford’s best player for a while. Andersson is playing with him and still finds a way to look completely invisible every night even at this level.
And they lose in OT. Andersson Keane and DiG on the ice for the game loser on a rebound.
other than the two moments where he swatted a flukey goal off a goalies side on the goal line and the rebound put back in his first game. Lias has played each game virtually as a non factor. And sure enough Hartford is struggling while he’s getting top like mins and pp time. Not saying it’s all him the team can’t score but you’d think he’d be a factor at this level playing big mins.
other than the two moments where he swatted a flukey goal off a goalies side on the goal line and the rebound put back in his first game. Lias has played each game virtually as a non factor. And sure enough Hartford is struggling while he’s getting top like mins and pp time. Not saying it’s all him the team can’t score but you’d think he’d be a factor at this level playing big mins.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Before Lias got sent down: Best team in the league.
After Lias got sent down: Haven't won a game in five straight.
After Lias got sent down: Haven't won a game in five straight.
Tob
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- Sep 16, 2017
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This is the first time I've been this up close to witnessing a bust happen in real time
His game is worse off than it was a year ago. He's moving in the wrong direction, for whatever reason. You shouldn't make an impact at 19 but not 21.
Give him until the New Year and if he hasn't picked it up to where he should be, given his talent, then move him out. Change of scenery. See if he can be the main piece for Puljujarvi or something. Before his value tanks.
Give him until the New Year and if he hasn't picked it up to where he should be, given his talent, then move him out. Change of scenery. See if he can be the main piece for Puljujarvi or something. Before his value tanks.
I’m sorry but I just continue to question what that talent is exactly? I don’t see any that says this guy should be in the NHL. Decent hands around the net maybe? That’s about it. But for sure he’s regressing. He was probably better in the A as a 19 year old at least was contributing on the PP. but as his age given his experience and draft pedigree this is ridiculous the way he’s playing
watching Mcilrath Jessiman Lundmark Malhotra and Brendl fall on their faces was quite the treat too
He's strong, has a good shot, a nose for the net, play(ed) a 200-foot game, and at least in the SHL and in his first stint in North America, showed some pretty damn good IQ particularly for a kid his age. I mean you don't produce as he did at that age in the SHL and then stepping immediately into the AHL unless you have superior raw talent.
Now however I'm back to seeing that lack of a motor that I saw when he went down last season.
And you're not sorry, either, so you don't need to start off by saying it.
This discussion about Andersson's talent is one you've been party to a million times over.He's strong, has a good shot, a nose for the net, play(ed) a 200-foot game, and at least in the SHL and in his first stint in North America, showed some pretty damn good IQ particularly for a kid his age. I mean you don't produce as he did at that age in the SHL and then stepping immediately into the AHL unless you have superior raw talent.
Now however I'm back to seeing that lack of a motor that I saw when he went down last season.
And you're not sorry, either, so you don't need to start off by saying it.
lol well you know I mean not trying to dismiss your evaluation is all.
I wish I saw more I guess but I just don’t. I haven’t seen him rip a puck by an AHL goalie let alone an NHL goalie ever. So I don’t see the shot. I don’t see the size or strength at all. He’s not a big kid. And his 200 ft game? I mean he brings zero offensively. So where’s the 200 ft game? He makes plenty of errors defensively. He’s ok on the pk. I’ll give him that one.
I saw the game this morning.
A few thoughts:
*Lias is the obvious starting point. Let’s break this down so it makes some sense, because with all due respect I think @Kovalev27 is missing some things.
1. What are we watching? The AHL. The game down there — when HFD is playing at least — is pretty horrible. There are extremely few instances were more than 2-3 passes are made in a row by one team. 1-2 passes are made and then a player face patrol and often it’s a stick on stick play were the puck bounce up in the air, at best going into an area.
Reading Knoblauchs comments at Howlins after games, all he is talking about is passing, passing and then more passing. He is coming from the NHL and it’s extremely clear for him what the next step is — these teams are really far from any NHL team when it comes to keeping possession of the puck. The reason for that is quite simple: 1. The skill is in the NHL, but the checking ability is in the AHL. The AHL is full of good checkers. In terms of checking ability, the AHL is through the roof. 2. As we have seen in NY this year, bringing in many new players means that it takes time to get the game going. In the AHL all teams have massive turnover every year. Play simple and conservative, and you will be rewarded.3. Tradition. Many coaches have been in the AHL a long time and don’t want to experiment, don’t know what it takes in terms of drills and what not, not the least patient, to be more creative with the puck.
As a result, what pays of the most in the AHL is to be able to jump at opportunities when they present themselves. This is fundamentally different from the NHL, unless if you maybe play on a 4th line. There is no ‘play’.
2. What does Lias do well? He is heads and shoulders above everyone down there when it comes to distributing and passing the puck. On the PP he is the only one who manage to buy himself time, calm things down, and find open ice. I think it’s a little odd to say that he did ‘nothing’ last night. He had what 8-9 really good plays on the PP. Lias plays the Ziba role in the middle on the PP. he did that great, but he would get more pts if he played the role he did early last season as the set-up guy.
He is also heady, gritty, good in 1 on 1 battles. Good shot. And so forth. But it’s how well he sees the ice that really stands out. Nobody in HFD is even close to him.
3. What is Lias not good at? Lias basically never manage to get into a situation where he has speed under his skates, pick up a lose puck and can set of up the ice before the Ds can start moving back. This is a typical flaw of a kid that is rushed. When you are 16 and playing against men, you want the kid to play with little risk in those situations. Right? Take your guy defensively, and only take risks when you get a good opportunity. This is an issue he had when we brought him over, and it hasn’t improved much if not getting a bit worse. It’s what he must work at in HFD, and it’s not something that you pick up over night. He should be down there the full season, if not longer.
4. What can we expect offensively? We have the environment in 1, what Lias does well in 2, and what he doesn’t do well in 3, so the result is predictable. And it won’t be close to a PPG. Not unless he really starts getting pts on the PP. and HFDs PP is pretty awful at the moment.
Why is that? (a) I should be doing some video on these things, it would be so easy to show like 5-10 situations in a game where Lias makes good heady plays with the puck — and nothing amounts from it. Whomever who gets the pass just throws it away. (b) He isn’t scoring many of those pts where his team backs down and then a puck is sent bouncing in the air and a player picks it up and rush down the ice. That is a big source of offense in the AHL, and it’s something Lias is below average at (his biggest flaw). This is not an excuse, it’s an observation of a flaw that holds him back both in the AHL and the NHL. At the same time, I don’t agree with the ‘he doesn’t have any skill at all’ notion. They are different things. (a) Illustrates why he can’t be a PPG player in the AHL based on his strengths alone, and (b) why there isn’t much of a cushion in terms of getting pts.
My prediction for him is give or take 0.5 PPG and the pts in that context can be streaky. I wouldn’t be surprised if he played 5 games in a row with zero pts and then got like 7 in 10 maybe.
5. What can improve? CAN anything improve? By spending a lot of time in the AHL, he will get a bigger role, his teammates will make sure he gets the puck more often because it will pay off, all these things will lead to a positive curve. More puck, more confidence, and especially eventually more training in areas that he needs to improve in game situations.
So there is certainly a bit of an improvement coming ahead.
6. What will the end product be? I still think that there is reason to be optimistic, besides the reasons for concern. But we must be patient and give him time.
*Joey Keane is getting good stats in HFD, but especially last night he was a total mess in terms of screw ups. Gave away two break aways, made many bad passes. KK is really patient with him.
*Fogarty should be next in line for a call up. Tempo in his skating is an issue — but he got good top speed when he gets going, he is strong, he definitely got some hidden offense and is quite nifty with his hands.
*HFD had a great start, but they haven’t played good hockey at any time this season. Just check the scores and shots or whatever during the streak they had. Goaltending and a very solid team effort — kudos to KK — got them pts.
A few thoughts:
*Lias is the obvious starting point. Let’s break this down so it makes some sense, because with all due respect I think @Kovalev27 is missing some things.
1. What are we watching? The AHL. The game down there — when HFD is playing at least — is pretty horrible. There are extremely few instances were more than 2-3 passes are made in a row by one team. 1-2 passes are made and then a player face patrol and often it’s a stick on stick play were the puck bounce up in the air, at best going into an area.
Reading Knoblauchs comments at Howlins after games, all he is talking about is passing, passing and then more passing. He is coming from the NHL and it’s extremely clear for him what the next step is — these teams are really far from any NHL team when it comes to keeping possession of the puck. The reason for that is quite simple: 1. The skill is in the NHL, but the checking ability is in the AHL. The AHL is full of good checkers. In terms of checking ability, the AHL is through the roof. 2. As we have seen in NY this year, bringing in many new players means that it takes time to get the game going. In the AHL all teams have massive turnover every year. Play simple and conservative, and you will be rewarded.3. Tradition. Many coaches have been in the AHL a long time and don’t want to experiment, don’t know what it takes in terms of drills and what not, not the least patient, to be more creative with the puck.
As a result, what pays of the most in the AHL is to be able to jump at opportunities when they present themselves. This is fundamentally different from the NHL, unless if you maybe play on a 4th line. There is no ‘play’.
2. What does Lias do well? He is heads and shoulders above everyone down there when it comes to distributing and passing the puck. On the PP he is the only one who manage to buy himself time, calm things down, and find open ice. I think it’s a little odd to say that he did ‘nothing’ last night. He had what 8-9 really good plays on the PP. Lias plays the Ziba role in the middle on the PP. he did that great, but he would get more pts if he played the role he did early last season as the set-up guy.
He is also heady, gritty, good in 1 on 1 battles. Good shot. And so forth. But it’s how well he sees the ice that really stands out. Nobody in HFD is even close to him.
3. What is Lias not good at? Lias basically never manage to get into a situation where he has speed under his skates, pick up a lose puck and can set of up the ice before the Ds can start moving back. This is a typical flaw of a kid that is rushed. When you are 16 and playing against men, you want the kid to play with little risk in those situations. Right? Take your guy defensively, and only take risks when you get a good opportunity. This is an issue he had when we brought him over, and it hasn’t improved much if not getting a bit worse. It’s what he must work at in HFD, and it’s not something that you pick up over night. He should be down there the full season, if not longer.
4. What can we expect offensively? We have the environment in 1, what Lias does well in 2, and what he doesn’t do well in 3, so the result is predictable. And it won’t be close to a PPG. Not unless he really starts getting pts on the PP. and HFDs PP is pretty awful at the moment.
Why is that? (a) I should be doing some video on these things, it would be so easy to show like 5-10 situations in a game where Lias makes good heady plays with the puck — and nothing amounts from it. Whomever who gets the pass just throws it away. (b) He isn’t scoring many of those pts where his team backs down and then a puck is sent bouncing in the air and a player picks it up and rush down the ice. That is a big source of offense in the AHL, and it’s something Lias is below average at (his biggest flaw). This is not an excuse, it’s an observation of a flaw that holds him back both in the AHL and the NHL. At the same time, I don’t agree with the ‘he doesn’t have any skill at all’ notion. They are different things. (a) Illustrates why he can’t be a PPG player in the AHL based on his strengths alone, and (b) why there isn’t much of a cushion in terms of getting pts.
My prediction for him is give or take 0.5 PPG and the pts in that context can be streaky. I wouldn’t be surprised if he played 5 games in a row with zero pts and then got like 7 in 10 maybe.
5. What can improve? CAN anything improve? By spending a lot of time in the AHL, he will get a bigger role, his teammates will make sure he gets the puck more often because it will pay off, all these things will lead to a positive curve. More puck, more confidence, and especially eventually more training in areas that he needs to improve in game situations.
So there is certainly a bit of an improvement coming ahead.
6. What will the end product be? I still think that there is reason to be optimistic, besides the reasons for concern. But we must be patient and give him time.
*Joey Keane is getting good stats in HFD, but especially last night he was a total mess in terms of screw ups. Gave away two break aways, made many bad passes. KK is really patient with him.
*Fogarty should be next in line for a call up. Tempo in his skating is an issue — but he got good top speed when he gets going, he is strong, he definitely got some hidden offense and is quite nifty with his hands.
*HFD had a great start, but they haven’t played good hockey at any time this season. Just check the scores and shots or whatever during the streak they had. Goaltending and a very solid team effort — kudos to KK — got them pts.
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Good post but a lot of this Still reads a lot like lias isn’t playing with good enough players and that’s why he can’t put up pts. We gave him this excuse in the NHL we’re going to give it to him playing top line mins in the A too? A half a point per game in the A as top line center is reason for optimism?
Fogarty is a heck of an AHL player. He should be able to put up pts with him.
Speaking of Fogarty I agree he should be called up in place of Nieves. He’s earned it. Great game from him last night he’s been very good.
Fogarty is a heck of an AHL player. He should be able to put up pts with him.
Speaking of Fogarty I agree he should be called up in place of Nieves. He’s earned it. Great game from him last night he’s been very good.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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I like Boo and Fogarty. It’s not a glamorous role for either but they’re good plug-and-play guys.
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