Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[SteveCangialosi123]

Alternatively, Hall doesn't improve the players around him as well as Kucherov and MacKinnon do.

But he does though. Wanna compare Travis Zajac’s stats from this year and last year? And by the advanced stats, virtually every single forward and defenseman is much better with Hall on the ice than off. He’s played the majority of his games with two teenagers. Now he has Palmieri on his wing and what do you know, Palmieri is scoring more than he was when he was away from him.

 

[Hobble]

Haven't read through threas, but any love for Wheeler?

Top10 in points, one of top RW in game, filled in as C when Scheifele was injured and didn't lose a single step.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

No chance. They’d be a bottom 5 team in the league this year without Malkin.

Yeah, right

Pittsburgh would still make the playoffs pretty handily.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Yeah, right

Pittsburgh would still make the playoffs pretty handily.

I'll point you to the standings on December 31st before Geno and did went on a monster tear.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I'll point you to the standings on December 31st before Geno and did went on a monster tear.

Hm interesting - last I checked a team without Malkin would have adapted because he wouldnt be returning from injury because he isnt on the team..

To seriously think the previous two cup winners couldnt adjust if Malkin took a season off is absurd.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Hm interesting - last I checked a team without Malkin would have adapted because he wouldnt be returning from injury because he isnt on the team..

To seriously think the previous two cup winners couldnt adjust if Malkin took a season off is absurd.

Call it whatever you like. The fact is that WITH sid and geno, the team was sucking on a nightly basis and was playing below a .500 pace.

It took those two guys to go on beast mode streaks (only one of which is still going) and drag the carcass of a team to where they are now. If it wasn't for those streaks, they'd likely be fighting for a lottery pick.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Call it whatever you like. The fact is that WITH sid and geno, the team was sucking on a nightly basis and was playing below a .500 pace.

It took those two guys to go on beast mode streaks (only one of which is still going) and drag the carcass of a team to where they are now. If it wasn't for those streaks, they'd likely be fighting for a lottery pick.

Idk what to say.

Id bet a thousand dollars in September that the Penguins roster as is without Geno would not be anywhere near a lottery pick. And I can safely bet that because theyve won the cup twice. And I assure you Malkin is not the only reason they won those cups let alone make the playoffs

 

[Rodgerwilco]

If Mackinnon stays hot and Colorado makes the playoffs it will be a travesty if he doesn't win the Hart trophy, I think.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Hall for me

Difference between him and the next Devil in points is huge

He truly has been the most valuable player to his team

MacKinnon second, Kuch third

Lightning just have so many good players. Hell of a year from Kuch but the Lightning are just too good all around, so its hard to say hes been as important

Mackinnon has been in on a higher percentage of Colorado's points than Hall has been with New Jersey while missing 8 of his team's games. Hall has missed 5 of his.

Mackinnon also has 5 more points than Hall in 4 less total games played.

Mackinnon has been better in straight up scoring AND has been more impactful to his team. Every argument made for Hall this year can be made in a larger matter for Nathan Mackinnon other than New Jersey possibly making the playoffs and Colorado not. Which is funny since as of now Colorado has 2 more points than NJ with a game in hand while NJ is sitting pretty comfortably in a playoff spot and Colorado is on the outside looking in.

 

[PensandCaps]

Yeah, right

Pittsburgh would still make the playoffs pretty handily.

Not at all. Did you miss the first half? You think the pens would make the playoffs with Riley Sheahan as their 2C?....

They were under 500. Through 46 games, WITH Malkin. Now imagine those 46 games with Sheahan as 2C and no Malkin.

15 wins at most.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Not at all. Did you miss the first half? You think the pens would make the playoffs with Riley Sheahan as their 2C?....

They were under 500. Through 46 games, WITH Malkin. Now imagine those 46 games with Sheahan as 2C and no Malkin.

15 wins at most.

15 games?

Wow some fan you are

 

[PensandCaps]

15 games?

Wow some fan you are

Just realistic. Crosby is a ghost this year. Kessel would win a few games by himself. Letang wpuld lose and has lost a few games by himself.

Only reason the Pens have turned it around is because of Malkin. Since January he has 23 goals and 46 points in 27 games.

Crosby is still missing. Hopefully saving it for the playoffs...

 

[bobholly39]

Not at all. Did you miss the first half? You think the pens would make the playoffs with Riley Sheahan as their 2C?....

They were under 500. Through 46 games, WITH Malkin. Now imagine those 46 games with Sheahan as 2C and no Malkin.

15 wins at most.

Seriously? 15 wins at most without Malkin?

What are you even talking about. Malkin has missed plenty of partial seasons in the past and pens never missed playoffs. And this wasn't even a back to back cup champ Pens team.

If Malkin was out - Crosby and co would simply step up more. They absolutely would find a way to make playoffs still. And MUCH moreso than that - they would not be a lottery team.

 

[PensandCaps]

Seriously? 15 wins at most without Malkin?

What are you even talking about. Malkin has missed plenty of partial seasons in the past and pens never missed playoffs. And this wasn't even a back to back cup champ Pens team.

If Malkin was out - Crosby and co would simply step up more. They absolutely would find a way to make playoffs still. And MUCH moreso than that - they would not be a lottery team.

Im basing it off this year. We won 21 games in the first half WITH Malkin. So yah. 15 wins at most in the first half is reasonable. Team with No centres after Crosby would not win much.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Just realistic. Crosby is a ghost this year. Kessel would win a few games by himself. Letang wpuld lose and has lost a few games by himself.

Only reason the Pens have turned it around is because of Malkin. Since January he has 23 goals and 46 points in 27 games.

Crosby is still missing. Hopefully saving it for the playoffs...

Pittsburgh started slow the year prior as well - was that all Malkin too?

 

[PensandCaps]

Pittsburgh started slow the year prior as well - was that all Malkin too?

Not nearly as bad...they were 2nd in the division by new years last year....and Crosby was actually elite that year, Malkin too. Soo.

This year we were out of a playoff spot. And Crosby mostly has been garbage.

 

[daver]

It all comes down to who can make the most outrageous hypothetical claims if a player was missing. The Devils couldn't beat a Golden Girls reunion team without Hall.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

No chance in hell

Without Malkin they'd still make the playoffs. Even if it simply means Crosby would be having a better year to make it so.

Though of course that's besides the point...

Agree to disagree. See ritinw’s post above yours for the numbers.

This is assuming Crosby has the same season he’s been having.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

This list is bull shit without Hall.....30 more points than 2nd best player on the devils...

 

[KIRK]

I don't know how it could be anyone but Hall of MacKinnon. I'd say the latter IF the Avs make it. IF not and assuming the Devils do, then Hall. IF neither team makes it, THEN you can start talking about Kucherov and Malkin.

Editor's Note: I'm a Penguins fan, but I sure as **** know what MVP is SUPPOSED to mean.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It all comes down to who can make the most outrageous hypothetical claims if a player was missing. The Devils couldn't beat a Golden Girls reunion team without Hall.

Hall has been in on a lower percentage of his team's points than Nathan Mackinnon has been despite playing in more of his team's games than Nathan Mackinnon.

In the 8 games Colorado didn't have Mackinnon in the lineup they scored a total of 17 goals (2.1 goals per game)
In the 56 games Colorado played with Mackinnon in the lineup they have 184 goals (3.4 goals per game)
(Stats were calculated Saturday, March 3)

If the "importance to his team" thing is going to continue to be brought up why are people using it for Hall instead of Mackinnon? Mackinnon's importance to his team has been better than Hall this year and he's doing it while being a better hockey player than Hall too.

I get the argument of "Best Player" vs "Most Important". I just don't understand why Hall would be brought into either argument since he hasn't been either of those.

 

[daver]

Hall has been in on a lower percentage of his team's points than Nathan Mackinnon has been despite playing in more of his team's games than Nathan Mackinnon.

In the 8 games Colorado didn't have Mackinnon in the lineup they scored a total of 17 goals (2.1 goals per game)
In the 56 games Colorado played with Mackinnon in the lineup they have 184 goals (3.4 goals per game)
(Stats were calculated Saturday, March 3)

If the "importance to his team" thing is going to continue to be brought up why are people using it for Hall instead of Mackinnon? Mackinnon's importance to his team has been better than Hall this year and he's doing it while being a better hockey player than Hall too.

I get the argument of "Best Player" vs "Most Important". I just don't understand why Hall would be brought into either argument since he hasn't been either of those.

I was making a joke, not an argument.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I was making a joke, not an argument.

My apologies. My point remains, just not directed at you. Many people are using the argument for Hall while every argument for Hall is just a heavier argument when used on Mackinnon.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Mackinnon, Hall, Barkov are the frontrunners imo

 

[frisco]

Just a general point. So players who are on good enough teams that would've made the playoffs without them are exempt from the award? As are players who teams don't make the playoffs at all? So just players from bubble teams who barely slid in can win. Doesn't really make sense.

My Best-Carey