Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[Cult of Hynes]

I don't think anyone in here is trying to dismiss what Hall is doing for the Devils. People are saying he is a top 4 MVP candidate which is very high praise not disrespect. The fact is, MacKinnon has been more dominant than Hall this year and to be honest I think he has a decent advantage. He has 10 GWG to Hall's 5 and 4 more points in 4 less games. If you look deeper into the statistics you see that Hall has started 10% more than MacK in the offensive zone. You couple that with the fact Colorado had 22 less points last year than New Jersey (and they were both **** don't get me wrong) it's really favoring MacK here.

Debatable. And he has more help around him to help him out and rack up points

 

[SmellOfVictory]

That's BS. Kopitar has been caring the team since Carter got injured. Of course you are only looking at the stats. Muzzin has been inconsistent the past two years, his game has gotten better the start of this year but everyone not named Doughty has been having a lot of ups and downs hence why they got Phaneuf. Toffoli has 20 plus goals but he has been having a disappointing season in every other aspect of his game and Pearson disappeared along with him when the Kings needed their top guys the most. Kopitar has been doing it all with Brown and Iafallo (most of the season ) as his wingers. He deserves to be nominated but I know it will be difficult since there are a lot of good candidates.

How many voters do you honestly think will have watched every single game in full detail? And beyond that, how many are going to come away with an accurate picture of what's going on for each of the 31 teams, across those 1000+ games? They're going to look at stats to inform a lot of their decisions, regardless of the what you're saying.

 

[Little Psycho]

How many voters do you honestly think will have watched every single game in full detail? And beyond that, how many are going to come away with an accurate picture of what's going on for each of the 31 teams, across those 1000+ games? They're going to look at stats to inform a lot of their decisions, regardless of the what you're saying.

I'm not asking them to watch every single game. Hell, it's their job to know what's going on with each team and paying special attention to players that are likely candidates. Besides last year, Kopitar has been consistent throughout his career and is having one of his best seasons with a current 71 points, not exactly under the radar stats. It's just funny that most of the names being listed is from the East.

 

[severian]

Sure, but the exact same can be said of MacKinnon and the Avs. Only difference is MacKinnon has more points than Hall.

MacKinnon has 78 points and Rantanen has 64. Hall has 74 points and Hischier has 41. That’s a ridiculous spread between top scorer and second leading scorer.

 

[Mbraunm]

I would actually support Hall as the front runner for the Hart. He seems to be the most valuable to his team.

 

[TheAngryHank]

I would actually support Hall as the front runner for the Hart. He seems to be the most valuable to his team.

With no dog in this fight I'm leaning toward Hall.

 

[glenwo2]

Hall deserves the Hart because I'm unbiased(can't you tell from my avy? ) .

But while I seriously want Hall to win it, I just don't see it happening because the amount of Points matter more to the public moreso than a player's impact on a team. At least that's my take on it.

 

[cgf]

I'm a Devils fan, so I'm obviously somewhat biased. However, without Taylor Hall we are talking about whether the Devils are picking Dahlin or Svechnikov instead of the playoff race. That's pretty damn valuable IMO.

Tbf we thought the avs would be making that same decision, even with MacKinnon. You guys at least have a stud goalie, so Hall doesn't have to score as much to give his team a chance to win

 

[Connor McConnor]

Debatable. And he has more help around him to help him out and rack up points

Mack carries that line and his primary points compared to Hall make this point a little moot. New Jersey was 12-12-4 during Hall's point streak whereas Colorado wins games when Mack carries them. I think it's a bit of recency bias with Hall considering the amazing run he was on.

 

[george14]

Mack carries that line and his primary points compared to Hall make this point a little moot. New Jersey was 12-12-4 during Hall's point streak whereas Colorado wins games when Mack carries them. I think it's a bit of recency bias with Hall considering the amazing run he was on.

This could easily be an argument for Hall.

I won't pretend to be a Devils fan, but I think it's extremely clear Hall means the world to that team. You take him off, they are garbage.

The debate between who is more valuable is very tough though. I lean Hall but understand MacKinnon.

 

[Connor McConnor]

This could easily be an argument for Hall.

I won't pretend to be a Devils fan, but I think it's extremely clear Hall means the world to that team. You take him off, they are garbage.

The debate between who is more valuable is very tough though. I lean Hall but understand MacKinnon.

How is this in anyway a argument for Hall? Do you understand a single thing I said?

1. Pointed out that MacKinnon has more PRIMARY points than Hall, suggesting he directly influences the play more than picking up secondary assists.
2. The fact New Jersey actually had a LOWER winning % during Hall's point streak suggests it didn't actually benefit the team, hence this whole "he's carrying trash" argument doesn't seem as obvious
3. Colorado went 2-6 during the games Mack missed whereas New Jersey went 2-0 during the game's Hall missed (I know it's a very small sample size but still worth noting)

I am not saying it's a landslide for MacK, it's close, but I honestly don't understand how you think my original post could in anyway be a argument favouring Hall.

 

[cgf]

Debatable. And he has more help around him to help him out and rack up points

Is it though? Hall has 74 points in 63 games all year, MacK has 74 points in the 49 games he's played since breaking out; for a pace of almost 20 points more than Hall in an 82 game season. Even taking MacKinnon's full season stats he's on pace for 13 more points over 82 games.

Last season Landeskog was a 40 point player, Barrie didn't even hit 40 points and neither did Rantanen as a rookie. With a dominant MacKinnon this season, Landeskog & Barrie are on pace for career years, while Rantanen is now a PPG sophomore who's going to more than double his totals from last year.

Some of that is on Landeskog playing better, Rantanen improving and Bednar figuring out how to use Barrie; but the impact MacKinnon has simply can not be understated. When he was out our scoring dried up even with all of that great help that MacK has; our PP dropped by over 13%, we scored more than 1.3 goals per game less than we have with MacK, Mikko's production dropped significantly, and the secondary scoring evaporated completely.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Is it though? Hall has 74 points in 63 games all year, MacK has 74 points in the 49 games he's played since breaking out; for a pace of almost 20 points more than Hall in an 82 game season. Even taking MacKinnon's full season stats he's on pace for 13 more points over 82 games.

Last season Landeskog was a 40 point player, Barrie didn't even hit 40 points and neither did Rantanen as a rookie. With a dominant MacKinnon this season, Landeskog & Barrie are on pace for career years, while Rantanen is now a PPG sophomore who's going to more than double his totals from last year.

Some of that is on Landeskog playing better, Rantanen improving and Bednar figuring out how to use Barrie; but the impact MacKinnon has simply can not be understated. When he was out our scoring dried up even with all of that great help that MacK has; our PP dropped by over 13%, we scored more than 1.3 goals per game less than we have with MacK, Mikko's production dropped significantly, and the secondary scoring evaporated completely.

It is debatable because MacKinnon is playing with better talent around him that can help him get more point totals.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

This is a Hall vs. MacKinnon race at this point IMO with the edge currently going to Hall. Anyone else being mentioned is doing both of these guys a serious injustice.

 

[DKH]

Marchand right there, far and away best defensive player and clutch

 

[Fantomas]

This is a Hall vs. MacKinnon race at this point IMO with the edge currently going to Hall. Anyone else being mentioned is doing both of these guys a serious injustice.

If Hall wins I will make a video of me eating my hat and share it with everyone here.

 

[Weast]

If the Devils make the playoffs and the Avs dont: Hall wins
If the Avs make the playoffs and the Devils dont: MacK wins
If both make the playoffs: Hall wins
If neither make the playoffs: Hall wins

 

[cgf]

It is debatable because MacKinnon is playing with better talent around him that can help him get more point totals.

Colorado is the 9th highest scoring team in goals per game, NJ is 14th, and Hall is the one who plays on a line with a #1 overall pick The team argument doesn't close such a huge individual gap. That MacK has as many points in his 49 games since breaking out, as Hall has in his 63 games all year, is pretty absurd.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Marchand right there, far and away best defensive player and clutch

Marchand will dive off and that’s fine

 

[DKH]

Marchand will dive off and that’s fine

i think with 3 overtime or final minute goals in 3 games never been accomplished he's 'thrown himself' into the mix

 

[McFlyingV]

The whole debate over team success and the hart trophy got me thinking. If McDavid can't win the award (according to some members in the media) because of the Oilers having a terrible season and missing the playoffs, then can Mackinnon win the award if Colorado doesn't make the playoffs?

 

[Laineux]

MacKinnon going cold and McDavid torching Kucherov really Changed the race. Who is the favourite?

 

[Spawn]

The whole debate over team success and the hart trophy got me thinking. If McDavid can't win the award (according to some members in the media) because of the Oilers having a terrible season and missing the playoffs, then can Mackinnon win the award if Colorado doesn't make the playoffs?

Depends how they go out I imagine.

If they miss out because MacKinnon goes cold down the stretch (now 3 games without a point) I don't see how you can give him the MVP.

But if he turns it back on brings them to the edge but they just miss, I can see the argument for him.

 

[McFlyingV]

Depends how they go out I imagine.

If they miss out because MacKinnon goes cold down the stretch (now 3 games without a point) I don't see how you can give him the MVP.

But if he turns it back on brings them to the edge but they just miss, I can see the argument for him.

I guess I just find it weird that just missing playoffs and missing it by a good portion would have any effect on Hart voting. Doesn't make any sense to me. I really don't care either way if McDavid doesn't win it because of team success, which like it or not tends to get lumped in with an individual award, but I think its a major double standard if just missing is viewed differently than missing by ~15 points.

I suppose the Lindsay is a better interpretation of individual performance.

 

[Troubadour]

If Hall wins I will make a video of me eating my hat and share it with everyone here.

Doesn't count, as you would surely get a special hat baked and cream-filled and iced.