Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.
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I just don't see a reason to believe that Kucherov would not be doing just as well or better if he was on the Devils.
It's your opinion and completely fair.
I'm not going to pretend to be some Devils fan, but I really can't recall a player being this influential in a playoff race, given the gap between he and everyone else. It's not all about points, but Hall is responsible for the Devils being in the playoffs. Especially considering he has a point in 25 straight games. The Devils and Jackets are the only playoff teams with a negative goal differential, which shows even further how much Hall means to them. Just my opinion though.
Zippy316
aka Zippo
In my opinion, it should come down to Hall or Mackinnon. I think Kopitar is having a similar effect as those two as well, but I still would say Hall and Mackinnon are more valuable to their team.
Other guys are having better seasons, but that shouldn't be what the Hart Trophy is about.
Other guys are having better seasons, but that shouldn't be what the Hart Trophy is about.
I know that making the playoffs is pretty much a necessity for any player to be considered a Hart candidate but who is to say what shape Tampa is in without Kucherov? I think it this "well, they would still be as good or as close to good without him" narrative gets too much play. Leading your team to a very comfortable playoff position should be equally valued too.
If Barkov keeps racking points and carries panthers to playoff he will be a contender. I`d have Hall and Mackinnon as favourites because of the points they racked up. I`d say all three are as crucial for their teams success and none of the teams would be in if any of theese 3 get injuried.
Right or even the fact that McDavid still provides the most "value" to his team. It's not even close actually. He has something like 45% of his teams goals he is involved in. But EDM will not make the playoffs and he will not win the award.
Taking Kucherov off the Lightning would still result in them being a playoff team. TB would not drop 24 points out of a playoff spot. However, I see your point because he is indeed a big reason they are the #1 team. The argument is entirely hypothetical and that's why it's hard for people to agree with each other. I don't think Kucherov is a bad choice, I just think Hall brings more value IMO.
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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deckercky
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Ahh the classic "best player on a good team that puts them over the top versus best player on a bubble team that drags them into playoffs" Hart Trophy debate.
There is no way Hall gets Hart while being outside top 10 in both points and goals.
Demandedace
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43.2%, that's a pretty ridiculous number and I'm not even a McDavid fan. Unfortunately (as you said), the Oil falling so far out of the playoff picture will hurt him too much to garner too much serious consideration
It's too difficult for the voters to acknowledge that when he's got another top 10 forward, a top 3 defensemen (possible/probable Norris winner), and probably the Vezina winner on the same team along with other very good players like Point. It's going to be the same for the Penguins, when you play on a team with a bunch of really good players, your contribution does not stand out as much for this kind of an award.
The Hart is really going to go to the guy that drags his team into the playoffs without as heavy of contributions from others, for that reason my three finalists are:
1. MacKinnon because are you serious? The Avs were actual trash last year and he put the team on his back doh (37.6% of team points he has contributed to)
2. Hall, only because of the massive disparity between him and the #2 guy on the Devils, and his consistency. However, the Devils overachieved earlier in the season and are regressing hard towards the mean now and will probably miss the playoffs, so he would likely fall off this list if that happens
3. Ovechkin, he's the only wing scoring any damn goals for the Caps and he's doing at least twice as well as the next highest goal scorer (Kuzy). The next closest wing in goals for the Caps is Brett Connolly (lol) with 14 and Oshie with 12 (blech), not to mention he leads the league in even-strength goals with 28 and the Caps have worse than shoddy defense and goaltending for the most part
You could also easily make an argument for Wheeler or Giroux, but their stats are heavily loaded with assists and not as spread as the above players. Bergeron, while I would love to see him get it, suffers from the same fate as the Penguins/Lightning where his entire line is ridiculous.
Top three is Kucherov, MacKinnon, and Malkin. Suggesting anyone else is foolish atm.
Two lines of thinking for this award: Best player in the league by points (Kucherov), or best player on a lousy team dragging them to the playoffs (Mack). Malkin could win only if he beats Kucherov for the Art Ross.
Hall has a shot if he finishes top 3 in scoring while also beating Mack in points. Without those two things happening, he will look like Mack Jr out there and will not be beating Sr for the trophy.
Two lines of thinking for this award: Best player in the league by points (Kucherov), or best player on a lousy team dragging them to the playoffs (Mack). Malkin could win only if he beats Kucherov for the Art Ross.
Hall has a shot if he finishes top 3 in scoring while also beating Mack in points. Without those two things happening, he will look like Mack Jr out there and will not be beating Sr for the trophy.
They usually do acknowledge that based on previous Hart voting. It really would be a shock if Kucherov wasn't voted the clear winner at this point.
Sidney the Kidney
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This is one of my pet peeves when it comes to arguments for who is "MVP".
Why is the ONLY thing that matters is a player turning a 9th or 10th seed into a 7th or 8th seed? Why is there no value in a player turning a 4th or 5th seed into a 1st seed or 2nd seed?
IMO, it's lazy analysis if the only criteria for being MVP is "would the team make the playoffs without them?". It ignores how valuable a player is turning a good team into an elite team.
It isn't the only thing that matters, but imo Hall and Mackinnon are both obviously extremely valuable on teams that almost certainly would not make the playoffs or even have a shot without them. They've carried their respective teams offensively all season. Both have ridiculous PPG stats this year.
THall4
Registered User
Thats cool n all ...but how many Hart Trophy awards (forwards only) have been handed out to someone outside the top 5 in scoring?
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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Hischier and Hughes
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I get your point, but Mack is 5th and Hall is on pace to crack the top 5 by seasons end and both have missed games.
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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Hischier and Hughes
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Being better doesn’t make him more valuable. Pittsburgh without Malkin likely still makes the playoffs. The Devils dont even get close
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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The way the pens played the first half. No way they make the playoffs without Malkin. They were 21-21-3 WITH Malkin. Now imagine what it had been with Riley Sheahan being the #2 Centre, not good.
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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Malkin makes the pens a SC contender...without him the pens miss the playoffs. I'd say that's quite valuable.
