Proposal: Hansen for Sheary, Fehr, and a 2nd

[High Flying Birds]

Sprong+Pouliot+1st for Hansen+Sbisa?

But really, if we are gunna make any trades it should be for a REAL top6 winger not Hansen.

What would Canuck fans want for Virtanen? Him and Pouliot have roughly the same value.

Are you for real with that trade? Sbisa is awful. He's not better than any of our current dmen. 2 1st rounders and a guy who has 1st round talent in Sprong for basically Hansen? Good lord

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pouliot's value is around a early second, while I'd say Hansen is a late first.

Hansen for Pouliot+4th would be fair.

Your valuation of Pouliot is hilariously off. At absolute worst, Pouliot's value is similar to Reinhart's value from 2015. I wouldn't do Pouliot for Hansen straight up, it would be a classic case of buying high on a guy that will almost definitely regress and giving up a guy with big potential for a marginal upgrade.

If he intends to follow through with that, then I really have to wonder what JR's thinking. The press box isn't where gifted young players develop, and the odds of DP either pushing Schultz out of a spot or forming a pairing with him are slim to none.

Letang and Maatta are probably going to miss a ton of time next season, Pouliot will get plenty of playing time.

Except Hansen has proven to be more durable, better fits our team identity, and - most importantly - was considerably more productive than Fehr last year. You can't simply gloss over the difference between scoring 22 goals/37 points in 67 games and 8 goals/14 points in 55 games. What happened last year matters.

Yes, Fehr sucked last year, but he also had offseason shoulder surgery and he spent a huge amount of time on the Pens 4th line (as opposed to the top-6 for Hansen). Buying high on someone like Hansen, who will likely regress back to his tweener 2nd/3rd line form, would be a really bad idea right now. I'm someone who'd be interested in Hansen, but not for the hilarious prices mentioned in here. I'd rather just keep Sheary in our top-6 than trade a 2nd, Sheary and Fehr for Hansen.

No, the OP is way to less. sheary is either really bad or really good. And fehr is an easily replaceable meh player. Thise two pieces are nothing of value, take you're homer glasses off. Its basically a 2nd for hansen, which is not close to enough.

It's really hard to take your opinion seriously when you have said stuff like "Vatanen is better than Letang" in the past. You take your opinions to extreme levels. The statistical difference between Fehr and Hansen is insignificant, that's a fact. Hansen had a much better season this year than Fehr did, but he isn't much of a better player than Fehr is over the last 3 years. It's not me being a homer, it's me being able to look at statistics and not having such extreme opinions.

 

[PensandCaps]

Your valuation of Pouliot is hilariously off. At absolute worst, Pouliot's value is similar to Reinhart's value from 2015. I wouldn't do Pouliot for Hansen straight up, it would be a classic case of buying high on a guy that will almost definitely regress and giving up a guy with big potential for a marginal upgrade.



Letang and Maatta are probably going to miss a ton of time next season, Pouliot will get plenty of playing time.



Yes, Fehr sucked last year, but he also had offseason shoulder surgery and he spent a huge amount of time on the Pens 4th line (as opposed to the top-6 for Hansen). Buying high on someone like Hansen, who will likely regress back to his tweener 2nd/3rd line form, would be a really bad idea right now. I'm someone who'd be interested in Hansen, but not for the hilarious prices mentioned in here. I'd rather just keep Sheary in our top-6 than trade a 2nd, Sheary and Fehr for Hansen.



It's really hard to take your opinion seriously when you have said stuff like "Vatanen is better than Letang" in the past. You take your opinions to extreme levels. The statistical difference between Fehr and Hansen is insignificant, that's a fact. Hansen had a much better season this year than Fehr did, but he isn't much of a better player than Fehr is over the last 3 years. It's not me being a homer, it's me being able to look at statistics and not having such extreme opinions.

Yah, and 3 years ago kunitz was an elite LWer....guess that should be his value today.....anyone with eyes knows hansen is much better than fehr. And that this deal is bad for Vancouver. Sheary, i like is just too inconsistent. Now idk if it was the wilson hit, but he was awful after the rags series. His value is minimal and fehr is basically a cap dump. 22 goals in 67 games last year, idc about 3 years ago

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

Are you for real with that trade? Sbisa is awful. He's not better than any of our current dmen. 2 1st rounders and a guy who has 1st round talent in Sprong for basically Hansen? Good lord

I was just kidding lol. I just said that because Hansen was being overrated.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sprong+Pouliot+1st for Hansen+Sbisa?

But really, if we are gunna make any trades it should be for a REAL top6 winger not Hansen.

What would Canuck fans want for Virtanen? Him and Pouliot have roughly the same value.

Don't.

Your valuation of Pouliot is hilariously off. At absolute worst, Pouliot's value is similar to Reinhart's value from 2015. I wouldn't do Pouliot for Hansen straight up, it would be a classic case of buying high on a guy that will almost definitely regress and giving up a guy with big potential for a marginal upgrade.

True. Pouliot's not an asset you trade for Hansen.

Letang and Maatta are probably going to miss a ton of time next season, Pouliot will get plenty of playing time.

I guess I don't see how Pouliot or the team benefits from having him sit in the press box to wait around for an injury.

Yes, Fehr sucked last year, but he also had offseason shoulder surgery and he spent a huge amount of time on the Pens 4th line (as opposed to the top-6 for Hansen). Buying high on someone like Hansen, who will likely regress back to his tweener 2nd/3rd line form, would be a really bad idea right now. I'm someone who'd be interested in Hansen, but not for the hilarious prices mentioned in here. I'd rather just keep Sheary in our top-6 than trade a 2nd, Sheary and Fehr for Hansen.

Shoulder surgeries aren't exactly without their residual effects. You're counting on Fehr having a total return to form, even if he does, I don't think he'd be better suited to a scoring line role on this team than even a regressed Hansen.

For me the Hansen/Hagelin comparison is tough to ignore. They're both roughly the same size, same speed, same two-way proficiency, same work ethic, and have the same hockey smarts to thrive in Sullivan's system. Despite Hags essentially being "2nd/3rd line tweener" who scored roughly the same as Fehr the last 3 years too, his skillset was exploited to its fullest on our team, I'd take him over Fehr in a heartbeat, and I wouldn't hesitate to trade Sheary, Fehr, and a 2nd for him.

 

[T1K]

That's a big package, but to be honest I don't watch the Canucks enough to have a strong opinion on it. If Hansen is a Hagelin clone like you're saying he is then I'd be on board with it. I don't have a problem trading Sheary and/or Fehr, but I'd definitely like to keep that 2nd ideally.

 

[PensandCaps]

Don't.



True. Pouliot's not an asset you trade for Hansen.



I guess I don't see how Pouliot or the team benefits from having him sit in the press box to wait around for an injury.



Shoulder surgeries aren't exactly without their residual effects. You're counting on Fehr having a total return to form, even if he does, I don't think he'd be better suited to a scoring line role on this team than even a regressed Hansen.

For me the Hansen/Hagelin comparison is tough to ignore. They're both roughly the same size, same speed, same two-way proficiency, same work ethic, and have the same hockey smarts to thrive in Sullivan's system. Despite Hags essentially being "2nd/3rd line tweener" who scored roughly the same as Fehr the last 3 years too, his skillset was exploited to its fullest on our team, I'd take him over Fehr in a heartbeat, and I wouldn't hesitate to trade Sheary, Fehr, and a 2nd for him.

Hansen does everything hags does, but hes a better scorer. I dont get why any pens fan wouldn't do this deal. 22 goal scorer in 67 games who plays a 200ft game and has alot of speed. Hags-whoever-hansen. Would be a killer 3rd line.

 

[RandV]

Doesn't make sense for Vancouver, the team sucks but we're not lacking in bottom six forwards. The team lacks legit top six players, and right now Hansen is our #2 RW.

This two for one would probably knock a comparable player to waivers, and there's no way the Canucks should move Hansen for a late 2nd rounder.

I don't know if he'd be the best option for the price but if Pittsburgh wanted to add Hansen they'd probably need to move their 2017 1st rounder. This is not an asset that's untouchable for a Cup contending team, and with his low salary you could look at Hansen as a 2 year rental. The only question would be if they're going to move their 1st could they find someone better.

 

[The Drop]

No thanks to that filler.

The 2nd is worth more than either played from the Pens

 

[Seatoo]

Easy pass from a Van Pov...Hansen is so versatile and well rounded with an excellent contract that I see this as a quantity for quality deal. Don't forget he scored 22 with next to 0 PP time. This package is extremely underwhelming.

 

[Riptide]

2 of those 3? I'd at least think about it. But honestly I don't think it's all that much of an upgrade.

If you look at Hansen and discard his last season where he scored 22 while shooting at 18.8%, he's typically is someone that gets ~150 shots a season and typically scores on ~10.5% of those - which would be good for 15/16 goals. Lets say he gets a small boost with Malkin/Crosby and scores 20.

Kuhnhackl in a depth role scored 5 over 42 games as a rookie.
Sheary scored 7 over 44 games as a rookie.
Rust scored 4 over 41 games as a rookie.
Fehr scored 8 over 55 games and did so while dealing with injuries and without having a training camp.

Now put any of those guys full time with Crosby or Malkin and what do you think they'd score? Because I don't think 15+ goals is all that unrealistic. At which point is getting an extra 5 goals worth giving up a 2nd+? Because I don't really see it. As for his style of play... Kuhnhackl, Rust and Sheary can and in fact do all play a similar style.

For me it just seems like we're giving up more than we should for what's probably a marginal upgrade at best. So I'd probably pass. If we could move out Kunitz and were then trading Fehr and whatever Kunitz returned for Hansen, then that I'd probably do. Not really convinced that it would be an upgrade, but at least that would be making a significant change. I'm not really convinced what the OP suggested is much of a change - at least not enough of one to warrant what we'd be giving up.

Easy pass from a Van Pov...Hansen is so versatile and well rounded with an excellent contract that I see this as a quantity for quality deal. Don't forget he scored 22 with next to 0 PP time. This package is extremely underwhelming.

With a shooting percentage that was 8% higher than his average over the 4 previous seasons. There's no way he sustains that... and if he doesn't, odds are he's back to 16-20 goals. Not bad... but not all that hard to replace either.

That said, I understand why VAN likely wouldn't be all that interested.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I mean, no kidding. What has Sheary done to have that kind of value relative to Hansen?

Didn't mean to imply the Canucks would be interested in Sheary for Hansen. I just don't think the two additional assets are ones the Pens can afford to toss in, especially for a guy that's not exactly going to put up massive numbers over anyone else who will play in that spot.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

That is too much for Hansen.

I mean I think Sheary and Fehr would have to go, but that 2nd, that's too much to add in for the deal, 2 of them should be enough.

Hansen did score 22 goals last season, but he's also very inconsistent offensivenly and save the "But he would score X amount with Sid or Geno!!" well that's not a guarantee either. He's also 30yrs old, I mean at least with Sheary, we might have a guy that can produce as much as Hansen, it's Fehr that most of us are ok seeing go (I'd rather keep Cullen).

Hansen is, quite possibly, the most consistent player on our team when looking at overall game. Offensively he's no stalwart, but he scores consistently depending on which line he is put on. His defensive game, penalty kill, forechecking and durability make him the ideal player for a team loading up for a cup run.

I actually quite like the original proposal. Even though I'd prefer to go for a late first, it's a good compromise. I may be higher on Hansen than some, but I also watch every game he plays, and he's a fantastic complementary player.

 

[PensandCaps]

Didn't mean to imply the Canucks would be interested in Sheary for Hansen. I just don't think the two additional assets are ones the Pens can afford to toss in, especially for a guy that's not exactly going to put up massive numbers over anyone else who will play in that spot.

Hansen would be great on this team. Fast like hags and can score. Hes a top6 RWer. Hags-hansen on the same line would be so fun to watch

 

[Riptide]

Hansen does everything hags does, but hes a better scorer. I dont get why any pens fan wouldn't do this deal. 22 goal scorer in 67 games who plays a 200ft game and has alot of speed. Hags-whoever-hansen. Would be a killer 3rd line.

How do you figer this? Hagelin has out scored Hansen in each of the previous 3 season if you discount last year - when Hagelin had his worst season and Hansen his best (and while shooting an unsustainable 18.8%). However if you just look at Hagelin's time with PIT last season, he was on pace for 22 goals and 59 points. And he did that with a 10.4% shooting percentage. I have a LOT more faith in Hagelin putting up something close-ish to that (20/50) then Hansen coming anywhere replicating the 26.9g pace he was on last season.

There's many things you can say about Hansen... but saying he's "a better scorer" then Hagelin isn't one of them. At least not if you're being honest with yourself.

Hansen would be great on this team. Fast like hags and can score. Hes a top6 RWer. Hags-hansen on the same line would be so fun to watch

He's the classic definition of a middle 6 winger, and is no more a "top 6 winger" then Hagelin is or Cooke or Kennedy were back in the day. He's nothing but a complementary winger, and the only way one would dare call him a "top 6 winger" is if he's centering Crosby or Malkin (or some other superstar center).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hansen would be great on this team. Fast like hags and can score. Hes a top6 RWer. Hags-hansen on the same line would be so fun to watch

I didn't say he wouldn't be good on the Pens. But I'm not seeing him as being this huge offensive upgrade to the top six. The fact he produces similar to Hagelin proves as much, since Hagelin's more of a 2nd/3rd line tweener and not exactly a big scorer, either.

 

[member 202355]

Hansen was made to be a Pittsburgh Penguin.

 

[PensandCaps]

How do you figer this? Hagelin has out scored Hansen in each of the previous 3 season if you discount last year - when Hagelin had his worst season and Hansen his best (and while shooting an unsustainable 18.8%). However if you just look at Hagelin's time with PIT last season, he was on pace for 22 goals and 59 points. And he did that with a 10.4% shooting percentage. I have a LOT more faith in Hagelin putting up something close-ish to that (20/50) then Hansen coming anywhere replicating the 26.9g pace he was on last season.

There's many things you can say about Hansen... but saying he's "a better scorer" then Hagelin isn't one of them. At least not if you're being honest with yourself.



He's the classic definition of a middle 6 winger, and is no more a "top 6 winger" then Hagelin is or Cooke or Kennedy were back in the day. He's nothing but a complementary winger, and the only way one would dare call him a "top 6 winger" is if he's centering Crosby or Malkin (or some other superstar center).

22 goals in 67 games, thats top 6 production. Now i know you're big on shooting percentage and how it might be an outlier, but 22 goals in 67 games is pretty darn good.
Hags-sid-hansen would be entertaining, in this supposed deal, the pens lose nothing besides a 2nd. Sheary and fehr are meh. Not that big of a deal if we lose them, heck we're losing sheary to the expansion draft anyway.

 

[biturbo19]

I wouldn't even think about doing that deal as a Canucks fan. It just doesn't really do anything for us.

I get why Pens fans would want to hang on to Sheary after the playoffs he had, and they should - but he doesn't really do much for the Canucks, who don't have a Crosby and Malkin.

Fehr is basically just a spare part in the bottom-6, where Vancouver already has plenty...and a bunch of younger players that would make sense to give a look to long before an old man like Fehr. That's not value added, it's basically just unloading a contract to balance things.

The 2nd would be nice, but it's going to be a late 2nd and it's not nearly enough as the "centerpiece" for Hansen.


Realistically, it'd take what most outsiders would view as "overpayment" to pry Hansen with his versatility, hard work, and very good contract away. A late 1st round pick...or a comparable value, very good prospect. Think...Sprong type prospect, though specifically not Sprong (not the type of player and character Benning and Co. are trying to build around).

Which is where i just don't see anything Pittsburgh has that would make sense (other than their 1st round pick). The point in trading Hansen would be "rebuilding", as he's not going to be easily replaced in a lineup that really can't afford to lose him. So it's gotta be a really enticing "futures" package to actually entertain the offer. And futures isn't really something Pittsburgh is strong in.

 

[RandV]

With a shooting percentage that was 8% higher than his average over the 4 previous seasons. There's no way he sustains that... and if he doesn't, odds are he's back to 16-20 goals. Not bad... but not all that hard to replace either.

That said, I understand why VAN likely wouldn't be all that interested.

Luck could certainly be a factor but I'd attribute more of his higher shooting percentage to playing most of last season with the Sedins. On his own he's a steady 16-20 guy, who probably generates most of his chances taking low percentage shots of the rush. If he gets to play with the Sedins again this season he should easily be able to match last years totals.

 

[Riptide]

22 goals in 67 games, thats top 6 production. Now i know you're big on shooting percentage and how it might be an outlier, but 22 goals in 67 games is pretty darn good.
Hags-sid-hansen would be entertaining, in this supposed deal, the pens lose nothing besides a 2nd. Sheary and fehr are meh. Not that big of a deal if we lose them, heck we're losing sheary to the expansion draft anyway.

It "might be an outlier"? The guy has shot 10-11% for 4 years prior to last season when he shot 18.8%. No one shoots 18.8% on a regular basis. And he's never shotten anything close to that previously. Did he have a really good season last year? Absolutely. And he may even have a very good season this year. But the odds of him shooting anywhere close to 18% is damn slim. And if he reverted back to his career average shooting percentage... he would have scored 12.5 goals - which is a far cry from 22 goals.

Year: 15/16, 14/15, 13/14
Hansen: 18.8%, 11%, 9.8%
Benn: 16.5%, 13.8%, 12.1%
Crosby: 14.5%, 11.8%, 13.9%
Kane: 16%, 14.5%, 12.7%
Ovie: 12.5%, 13.4%, 13.2%
Tarasenko: 13.6%, 14%, 15.4%
Pavelski: 16.9%, 14.1%, 18.2%
Stamkos: 16.6%, 16%, 20.1%*, 18.4%**
* Injury shortened season, he played 37 games
** Lockout season (12/13), he played 48 games

Now, look at the very best goal scorers in the league. The only two that have an absurdly high shooting percentage year to year (Pavs and Stamkos) are two of the best goal scorers in the league... and they both score a TON of power play goals.

So yeah it "might be an outlier". As in that's the classic definition of an outlier. Could he score 20+ goals next season? Absolutely. But there's no way a rational person could look at Hansen's season last year and say yeah, he'll absolutely score 26.7 goals next season, just like how he was on pace to do so last season. Why? Because it's completely irrational.

Two additional things.
1) Our prospect pool isn't nearly so deep that we can afford to toss 2nds around like they're candy. Yes I know the odds of that pick turning into a top 6 player, but I also know that the odds are that the more early picks you have, the better chances you have of getting a quality NHLer.
2) Sheary and Fehr are not "nothing". In fact both will likely put up a good % of the goals that Hansen will next season. Given the 400k or so in cap savings with Sheary/Fehr over Hansen+575k, Fehr's ability to play C and Sheary's younger age and higher skill and potential level (not to mention his dirt cheap contract) and then while he doesn't have much value, there's certainly value there - especially for a cap team with a desperate need for offensive wingers and who has a marginal prospect pool.

 

[Riptide]

Luck could certainly be a factor but I'd attribute more of his higher shooting percentage to playing most of last season with the Sedins. On his own he's a steady 16-20 guy, who probably generates most of his chances taking low percentage shots of the rush. If he gets to play with the Sedins again this season he should easily be able to match last years totals.

Seeing how he's averaged between 10-16 goals in the 4 previous seasons, I have a hard time calling him a steady 16-20 goal guy.

Could he come close to 22 goals next season? Yeah perhaps if he plays the entire season with the Sedins. But that doesn't change the fact that that shooting percentage isn't sustainable - especially from someone who's not getting prime PP chances and isn't one of the best goal scorers in the league.

 

[turkulad]

Vancouver can't add any bottom 6 forwards at this point for reasons stated before me, so one of Fehr/Sheary would have to be switched to a non-roster asset.. and even then, selling Hansen for such a quality-for-quantity-return would make my heart break. "Not like this."

 

[Major Happy*]

Terrible for Pittsburgh, Sheary is better then Hansen.

 

[PensandCaps]

Terrible for Pittsburgh, Sheary is better then Hansen.

This is the most false thing ive ever read.