Proposal: Hampus Lindholm offer sheet (BUF/NJD)

[Sojourn]

Is that the plan? Go around and tell 29 other GMs to wait for a couple of years before offer sheeting him, when he's near UFA?

By the way, do names "O'Reilly" and "Hjalmarsson" sound familiar? Both were offer sheeted, both offer sheets harmed the team eventually. The reason why it happens rarely is because most of the time, there isn't a good candidate to potentially mess up. Anaheim is literally the perfect target right now.

I'm not sure you thought that point through. That's an argument to not offer sheet a player.

And the reason why it happens so rarely is not because the opportunity isn't there. The reason why it's rare is because you have to put together a contract that not only entices the player to sign it, but is also going to discourage the team with the player to not match it. In other words, you have to knowingly overpay the player, and for a pretty lengthy period of time. That's something that GM's typically try to avoid.

 

[haseoke39]

It's all a pretty moot point now unless someone can name the team that has the space, the picks, and the need. For a spell, that appeared to be the Sabres, but I haven't heard a plausible replacement suitor.

We can argue all day about whether Anaheim is vulnerable in the abstract. They very, very are, IMO, but if there's not a predator left on the market, who cares?

 

[Maukkis]

I'm not sure you thought that point through. That's an argument to not offer sheet a player.

And the reason why it happens so rarely is not because the opportunity isn't there. The reason why it's rare is because you have to put together a contract that not only entices the player to sign it, but is also going to discourage the team with the player to not match it. In other words, you have to knowingly overpay the player, and for a pretty lengthy period of time. That's something that GM's typically try to avoid.

I responded to someone saying that those kind of offer sheets don't happen. You misread that post, I guess.

Think about it. O'Reilly's OS had the salary heavily back-loaded so his QO would be sky high when the two-year, 5m AAV contract ended. Colorado had no choice but to accept the deal. The compensation would have been nothing compared to what O'Reilly is as a player. Hjalmarsson's OS might have done more good than bad in the long run, thanks to Crawford, but Chicago still lost Niemi, a goalie who just got them a Stanley Cup.

But if you match the proposed deal for Rakell, you aren't overpaying. However, you're now severely limited your chances of signing Lindholm, since you're down to just over four million of cap space. A long term deal is out of the question unless you move someone, and that trade will be painful. Just ask any Chicago fan. The risk of Lindholm getting offer sheeted and then not matched is obviously small, but there's the opportunity you mentioned: a team who can't match immediately for a fair value deal, let alone a more expensive one.

The aim would not be to "expose" Lindholm, it would be more of using the risk of it happening to acquire Rakell.

 

[ffh]

It's all a pretty moot point now unless someone can name the team that has the space, the picks, and the need. For a spell, that appeared to be the Sabres, but I haven't heard a plausible replacement suitor.

We can argue all day about whether Anaheim is vulnerable in the abstract. They very, very are, IMO, but if there's not a predator left on the market, who cares?

wpg has everything required for a lindholm offersheet. i'm sure 6 is more than he's being offered. so 6x7 done deal. sure he is being offered 5x7 or less.

 

[mytduxfan*]

wpg has everything required for a lindholm offersheet. i'm sure 6 is more than he's being offered. so 6x7 done deal. sure he is being offered 5x7 or less.

Except WPG has to re-sign Trouba.

 

[lwvs84]

You have to think the Ducks owners are not short sighted enough to not match a front loaded offer sheet. They know Lindholm's value. Also, they should know that even if they're over budget by a lot this year, they'll be below toward the end when Bieksa and Stoner are gone, some of the young d-men will be in the lineup cheap, and Getzlaf and Perry (I think) will be making less than their cap hit. You don't make the kind of money they have made without looking at the future

 

[Sojourn]

So, you're saying I have equally zero basis for assuming there's an internal cap as you do for assuming there's not?

I admit I don't know what the internal cap is, but I thought we were on common ground here stating that there is one. I'm pretty sure Bob Murray gave interviews where he acknowledged it was there going forward.

When has it been lifted before, BTW? To what level?

Considering I've never assumed there wouldn't be an internal cap, that isn't what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that none of us know what kind of restrictions Murray has at the moment, and how much, if any, room there is for some flexibility in that regards.

I can't answer the last question, and that's a bit absurd to ask. To what level? Really? How do you expect someone to answer that? Unless you want me to make **** up, you should know better than to ask that. As for when, when the team won the Cup, and some of the following seasons. Does that mean ownership would be willing to do so now? I have no idea. Note that I'm not pretending otherwise. For all I know, ownership is completely against the idea. Or, the opposite could be true, and with the right justification they may be willing to give Murray room to work.

And yes, Murray has been on record as saying that. Which is meaningful only until actual decisions need to be made. Business is a bit more fluid than that, because it needs to be. Situations change, constantly, and you need to be able to adapt. Now, like I said, I don't know whether there is wiggle room there for Murray, or how much there is if he does, but is it ridiculous to assume that Murray has no options at all? Yes. Yes, it is.

 

[skyo]

wpg has everything required for a lindholm offersheet. i'm sure 6 is more than he's being offered. so 6x7 done deal. sure he is being offered 5x7 or less.

Except WPG has to re-sign Trouba.

They can trade Trouba pretty easily.

 

[Whileee]

Except WPG has to re-sign Trouba.

Jets are not offer sheeting anyone. If they did, they would just trade Trouba to make room.

 

[Emerald Duck]

They can trade Trouba pretty easily.

Same could be said for Lindholm, Ristolainen or any of the other marquee RFAs. No one wants to move their RFAs, including WPG. These players are considered future cornerstones on their respective franchises. To say that WPG could "easily" trade Trouba is being rather cavalier. Could they ? Sure - half the league would pony up an offer if one of these guys are being dangled by the GM. Do they want to ? Of course not.

 

[ffh]

Jets are not offer sheeting anyone. If they did, they would just trade Trouba to make room.

I'm sure 6x7 isn't insulting lindholm like the ducks offer is. and we don't pay trouba 7-8 million like all the reports say he wants. let the ducks sign trouba for 7-8.

 

[Sojourn]

I responded to someone saying that those kind of offer sheets don't happen. You misread that post, I guess.

Think about it. O'Reilly's OS had the salary heavily back-loaded so his QO would be sky high when the two-year, 5m AAV contract ended. Colorado had no choice but to accept the deal. The compensation would have been nothing compared to what O'Reilly is as a player. Hjalmarsson's OS might have done more good than bad in the long run, thanks to Crawford, but Chicago still lost Niemi, a goalie who just got them a Stanley Cup.

But if you match the proposed deal for Rakell, you aren't overpaying. However, you're now severely limited your chances of signing Lindholm, since you're down to just over four million of cap space. A long term deal is out of the question unless you move someone, and that trade will be painful. Just ask any Chicago fan. The risk of Lindholm getting offer sheeted and then not matched is obviously small, but there's the opportunity you mentioned: a team who can't match immediately for a fair value deal, let alone a more expensive one.

The aim would not be to "expose" Lindholm, it would be more of using the risk of it happening to acquire Rakell.

I really think your memory of those offer sheets is a little warped.

Niemi was no big loss for Chicago. He was viewed as expendable. As far as offer sheets go, that was one of the most reasonable I've seen, especially in hindsight. They locked up a top 4 defenseman for 4 years, at a reasonable price. Maybe it was a tad pricey for a defensive defenseman(at the time), but not by much.

ROR is another matter entirely, and if some team wants to offer Rakell a stupid contract like that, they are more than welcome to. That was a desperate move from Calgary, and they are lucky that Colorado matched. Especially since there was the question of whether ROR would need to go through waivers for Calgary, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't hold it against Rakell if some team offered him $5m AAV and he signed it. He's not worth that. Certainly not at this stage. But he isn't going to be offered that either. ROR was a better player, and a more highly touted player, which seems to be dracom's point: Rakell is talented, but there is definitely a risk in OS'ing him. I'm pretty sure most of the teams that would be in a position to offer sheet him have prospects that project to be better. Why be wasteful?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

In other words, you have to knowingly overpay the player, and for a pretty lengthy period of time. That's something that GM's typically try to avoid.

I see this happen every June. Without sending compensation of course.

 

[haseoke39]

Considering I've never assumed there wouldn't be an internal cap, that isn't what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that none of us know what kind of restrictions Murray has at the moment, and how much, if any, room there is for some flexibility in that regards.

I can't answer the last question, and that's a bit absurd to ask. To what level? Really? How do you expect someone to answer that? Unless you want me to make **** up, you should know better than to ask that. As for when, when the team won the Cup, and some of the following seasons. Does that mean ownership would be willing to do so now? I have no idea. Note that I'm not pretending otherwise. For all I know, ownership is completely against the idea. Or, the opposite could be true, and with the right justification they may be willing to give Murray room to work.

And yes, Murray has been on record as saying that. Which is meaningful only until actual decisions need to be made. Business is a bit more fluid than that, because it needs to be. Situations change, constantly, and you need to be able to adapt. Now, like I said, I don't know whether there is wiggle room there for Murray, or how much there is if he does, but is it ridiculous to assume that Murray has no options at all? Yes. Yes, it is.

You'll tell me the cap has been moved before, but it's "absurd" for me to follow up with by how much. I mean, if you can't answer that, your argument that there's some positive precedent here doesn't mean anything. What is the scale of this precedent that I should care about it?

You'll admit that there's probably a cap going forward, but the world is too "fluid" to speculate on what it might be. Really? Too fluid just to speculate? That's all we're doing here. For sake of argument, I speculated it might go up by $6M, and in that world, you'd be pretty hard pressed to match a certain deal.

You seem to want to just fight the examples and the numbers with "nothing is knowable." Who cares about that kind of crap? We're obviously here to indulge in guesswork. You're not rebutting anything or proposing a counterfactual. You're not telling me what ownership might spend and why you think that, based on their history. You're just waving your hands and arguing against trying to figure out the budget at all. I can construct a scenario where the Ducks spend up to the cap in real dollars and still can't match an offersheet, but why would I bother if you're not even going to argue what they can afford?

 

[McSuper]

Someone offer sheet him now! I want something to watch before the season start. Anyway, I don't see the team that can do it would do it.

Edmonton makes some sense . They have almost 9 million in cap space . with some dead weight coming off next year . If they did they would probably have to make a deal with Boston to retain their 2nd and to free up some cap space for bonuses .

Lindholm Larsson
Klefbom Sekera
Davidson Fayne

Oesterle


Trade Yakupov , Move Nurse . Fayne if possible . Move any bottom D or bottom 6 that opens up about 5 million in cap space . I would even Move Sekera if possible NTC to open that 5 million Maybe even make a trade for Brodin . how sweet our D would be .

 

[Sojourn]

I see this happen every June. Without sending compensation of course.

If you're referring to off-season free agent signings, that's a bit different.

Offer sheets are for RFA's. UFA's get overpaid, yes, but RFA's are valuable, in large part, because they are more cost controlled. You can get equivalent talent(or soon to be equivalent talent) while paying less. In the salary cap era, that's a must.

I'd argue that's one of the reasons offer sheets usually end up so badly. You end up paying more than RFA value, and either the player disappoints at that cost, or they play up to that value but you're then put in a position to pay even more next time they are due a contract. Either way, you're handicapping yourself. And that's before you consider the compensation.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Edmonton makes some sense . They have almost 9 million in cap space . with some dead weight coming off next year . If they did they would probably have to make a deal with Boston to retain their 2nd and to free up some cap space for bonuses .

Lindholm Larsson
Klefbom Sekera
Davidson Fayne

Oesterle


Trade Yakupov , Move Nurse . Fayne if possible . Move any bottom D or bottom 6 that opens up about 5 million in cap space . I would even Move Sekera if possible NTC to open that 5 million Maybe even make a trade for Brodin . how sweet our D would be .

EDM doesn't have their 2nd round pick, so it would have to be 4 x 1sts. Doubt EDM does that with their track record. Regardless, I'm sure ANA matches. EDM with McDavid and Lindholm = a lot of division titles and a lot of Stanley Cups.

 

[snipes]

If EDM offer sheeted Lindholm, I would be jumping for joy. The Pacific would tilt overnight, ANA would match though. They would be absolute morons to not and I think their fans would revolt if they didn't.

Eberle and/or RNH would have to be traded. We're not losing Drai and he'll need to get paid too.

 

[Pennaduck]

Edmonton makes some sense . They have almost 9 million in cap space . with some dead weight coming off next year . If they did they would probably have to make a deal with Boston to retain their 2nd and to free up some cap space for bonuses .

Lindholm Larsson
Klefbom Sekera
Davidson Fayne

Oesterle


Trade Yakupov , Move Nurse . Fayne if possible . Move any bottom D or bottom 6 that opens up about 5 million in cap space . I would even Move Sekera if possible NTC to open that 5 million Maybe even make a trade for Brodin . how sweet our D would be .

Do you only retain 8 players in the expansion draft then? Because Sekera has a NMC and you'd lose Klefbom or Larsson if you don't

Edit: i mean protect, not retain

 

[Pennaduck]

If EDM offer sheeted Lindholm, I would be jumping for joy. The Pacific would tilt overnight, ANA would match though. They would be absolute morons to not and I think their fans would revolt if they didn't.

Eberle and/or RNH would have to be traded. We're not losing Drai and he'll need to get paid too.

Don't you have Draisatl and McJesus as RFAs next summer and the summer after, respectively. Maybe you keep your head down on the offer sheet concept for a while.

 

[snipes]

Don't you have Draisatl and McJesus as RFAs next summer and the summer after, respectively. Maybe you keep your head down on the offer sheet concept for a while.

Keep up with the skambud on your best player. I wouldn't offer sheet we can't afford it, you should direct your frustration at your cheap management.

 

[Hunter368]

Do we know what the Ducks current offer is to Lindholm and what Lindholm is asking for in return?

 

[crowi]

So, where's the proposed offer sheet? This isn't speculation apparently. Terms used on this site bewilder me beyond belief.

 

[snipes]

So, where's the proposed offer sheet? This isn't speculation apparently. Terms used on this site bewilder me beyond belief.

Proposal is basically fantasy hockey talk. It's not reality, it's how us hardcore hockey fans pass time and talk about the greatest sport in the world.

 

[crowi]

Proposal is basically fantasy hockey talk. It's not reality, it's how us hardcore hockey fans pass time and talk about the greatest sport in the world.

Okay, I had to make changes to my cp to see this. Thanks for the info.