Hamilton Bulldogs 2022-23 Season Thread

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OMG67

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6th in the conference? lol. If they don't trade anyone, they're easily 4th, maybe 5th at worst.

Barries adding, Ottawas adding, NB is adding. Is there an unlimited buyers market? Maybe thats why you're hoping Hamilton sells? need Morrison and Hayes for your squad? The Steelheads are a strong team overall but couldn't score a 5 on 5 goal vs the Bulldogs.

People think the Bulldogs are a step back from the championship team and they are but lets be honest. There is no team outside of Ottawa in the east that would even win a game vs the Bulldogs of last year. If everyone viewed their team like people on here view the Bulldogs, they'd all be selling and handing the title over to the 67s.

This year’s Bulldogs team is on pace for 215 goals for and 245 goals against. That would have tied Oshawa last season in…. Wait for it...

SIXTH PLACE!!!

And, if we use points per game, Oshawa finished one point behind Hamilton’s current projection.
 

Hammer9001

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1. But the point still remains. Your argument is that this seasons team is unable to compete because they lost two blowouts, when the team that won the first championship got HANDLED multiple times that season. Yes they added pieces but the Bulldogs will be adding Winterton. Do I expect a title? not really but if you sell every time you don't have an all star team you'll just keep getting into a cycle of rebuilding and I'd be fine with giving the core that never lost in the Eastern Conference playoffs and outlasted the other league champions another shot at it.

2. I've read many people saying they should be sellers that season. For the same reasons you're saying now. No chance at winning, wanted more draft picks, ect. Didn't have a lot to sell? Kaliyev and Jenik were dominate and would've been huge to anyone and many people expected at least one to be gone the year after.

3. Trading the remaining ones would be a sign of them rebuilding, yes. But trading Diaco, Marco and waiving Durate showed nothing because they can only have a certain number of overagers.

4. One of the two teams that are drastically outperforming the Bulldogs got beat by the Bulldogs 4-1 and they didn't even have Winterton. You may think that North Bay is this world beater but if they aren't throwing in the towel, I see no reason why the Bulldogs should. Our forwards are also missing Humprey, Brown and Winterson and had White on the IR to start the season. White opens up the game to a very different level and the team has looked great since hes been there.
1. No, my arguement is statistically over the course of 23 games, several teams have performed better and have clear signs of more depth then we do, and that we lost four blowouts. Even if Winterton comes back and performs as you expect him to, we still have a weak 3rd line. OHL hockey IS cyclical, because players age out so quickly. You don't seem to get that we sold in 2019 and because we did, we won in 2022.

2. Again, you are mistaken, Kaliyev was not an overeager. It would have been stupid to trade him, since at the end of 2019 we improved to slightly and our 17 year olds performed better then expected. He likely would have been the glue in a 2020 or 2021 run.

3. That's not what you said, you said trading your over agers doesn't mean anything, which you just admitted it does. Trying to get something from OAs you have to cut anyways isn't even worth mentioning. It's braindead not to try.

4. Again, one game, you're quick to forget that same North Bay team also beat the Bulldogs 5-1. Yes, White has looked good, because he's one of our three OA's. You keep obsessively mentioning Winterton and claiming he will magically make our 2nd and 3rd lines score somehow, and that there isn't a real possibility that he likely won't be at 100% after his injury. Considering if you don't recoup those picks, you effectively consign the Bulldogs to a much longer rebuild. You even admit you aren't expecting a championship from this team. It makes no sense to trade away the team's future in 2 to 3 years for a likely 2nd round playoff exit.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

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You are comparing yourselves this year to North Bay or Kingston last year? For real? No. I mean seriously. For real? For real?

There is an upper tier of “contenders” that make an investment in winning pretty much every season. Kingston and North Bay joined Hamilton last year in that tier. Similarly, those teams this season would be Peterborough, North bay and Ottawa with Barrie a possibility if Clarke is returned.

Hamilton can remain status quo and that is fine BUT they surrendered a considerable number of assets last year to make their run. It is reasonable to follow that up with a reset to reacquire those assets the following year when they are not in that top tier. It is the responsible way to operate a franchise.

You have an opportunity to either trade one OA and get back to a full set of draft picks or trade multiple OA’s and set yourselves up for another strong cupboard of picks to augment a future team.

By comparison, using your logic, you would suggest that since Kingston is right there with Hamilton in the standings that if Wright were returned, Kingston should make another run as well? I mean, why not?

How much logic are you rejecting? Seriously. You are comparing the Bulldogs team this year to North Bay and Kingston last year? WOWZERS.
I'm comparing North Bay's and Kingstons chances to Hamiltons.

Kingston and North Bay weren't in the same league as the Bulldogs last year. Watching Kingston play Hamilton was like watching some pee wee kids play the local NHL team. It wasn't close and it was never going to be close. Should they have sold because Hamilton made an unbeatable team? no because you give your guys a chance. You let the game play out. You let your roster prove the pundits wrong or at least try to.

This years upper tier of East contenders has no Bulldogs of last year. They have one elite 67s team and a bunch of others who will be fighting it out. If Kingston gets Wright back, yes they should consider making a run. Why wouldn't they? Adding one of the best players in the league with a chip on his shoulder to a team in a playoff spot seems like a good idea.

It is reasonable to try and reacquire those assets but it is completely unreasonable to make the decision that this team needs to be gutted based on 23 games where you didn't have White for half of them and never had Winterton.
This year’s Bulldogs team is on pace for 215 goals for and 245 goals against. That would have tied Oshawa last season in…. Wait for it...

SIXTH PLACE!!!

And, if we use points per game, Oshawa finished one point behind Hamilton’s current projection.
Using stats when the team has been missing Winterton and White for large portions of the season is silly. Lets use the data we have when we didn't have the guy who can carry the offensive play and make decisions based on that!
 
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Hamilton Bulldogs

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1. No, my arguement is statistically over the course of 23 games, several teams have performed better and have clear signs of more depth then we do, and that we lost four blowouts. Even if Winterton comes back and performs as you expect him to, we still have a weak 3rd line. OHL hockey IS cyclical, because players age out so quickly. You don't seem to get that we sold in 2019 and because we did, we won in 2022.

2. Again, you are mistaken, Kaliyev was not an overeager. It would have been stupid to trade him, since at the end of 2019 we improved to slightly and our 17 year olds performed better then expected. He likely would have been the glue in a 2020 or 2021 run.

3. That's not what you said, you said trading your over agers doesn't mean anything, which you just admitted it does. Trying to get something from OAs you have to cut anyways isn't even worth mentioning. It's braindead not to try.

4. Again, one game, you're quick to forget that same North Bay team also beat the Bulldogs 5-1. Yes, White has looked good, because he's one of our three OA's. You keep obsessively mentioning Winterton and claiming he will magically make our 2nd and 3rd lines score somehow, and that there isn't a real possibility that he likely won't be at 100% after his injury. Considering if you don't recoup those picks, you effectively consign the Bulldogs to a much longer rebuild. You even admit you aren't expecting a championship from this team. It makes no sense to trade away the team's future in 2 to 3 years for a likely 2nd round playoff exit.
1. Over the course of 23 games, the Bulldogs didn't have white. The Bulldogs have a much better record with him in the lineup and have looked like a completely different team. How do you know we will have a weak third line when Winterton gets back? Cole Brown, Xhekaj would be solid wingers for a third line. The only weakness would be center. The trades in 2019 helped but we also had a one in a franchise type team that was above and beyond what is necessary to win a title. This is a team that had multiple injuries to top players and still won the title.

2. Kaliyev was not an overeager but he was drafted and could've been on the Kings like McTavish is this season, so there was some risk in keeping him.

3. Thats what I meant. Trading our overagers at the start of the season didn't mean anything. Obviously if they traded Morrison, Hayes and White they'd be rebuilding.

4. NB won 5-1, HAM won 4-1. How is NB that far ahead of Hamilton? I'm not even saying that yeah we need to make a decision on rebuild or go for it at this time, I'm simply saying wait and see. Instead of giving up two months into the season where the Bulldogs went through trades of their OA's, injuries to a handful of guys, lets see how these guys play in December and January before we crown anyone. By the sounds of it, they could go on a 15 game win streak and you'd still want them to sell at the deadline. Our 3OA's are all good, yes. I don't see how thats a negative. They are not the only team with OA's but they are the only team with OA's of that quality. Winterton coming back does make the second and third lines better because guys like Xhekaj or Humphrey go down to the third line and Winterton could be on the second line with Shrek, which is a much tougher line. You can't expect a championship every year, but you can try for one. If teams traded their core away everytime they didnt expect a championship, you'd only have number 1 seeds as champions every year.
 

Bra Wavers

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So I guess the best compromise is a partial sell off…..the Bulldogs replenish their draft cupboard, they still make the playoffs and younger guys play higher in the lineup; more minutes + more “important” minutes = faster development.

Hamilton just needs to decide who they keep and who they trade. I say: trade White to Peterborough, trade Hayes to a team in the West, don’t trade Morrison (to Ottawa) and hang onto Winterton……but that’s just me.

Sorry for barging in here…..carry on✌️
 
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OMG67

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I'm comparing North Bay's and Kingstons chances to Hamiltons.

Kingston and North Bay weren't in the same league as the Bulldogs last year. Watching Kingston play Hamilton was like watching some pee wee kids play the local NHL team. It wasn't close and it was never going to be close. Should they have sold because Hamilton made an unbeatable team? no because you give your guys a chance. You let the game play out. You let your roster prove the pundits wrong or at least try to.

This years upper tier of East contenders has no Bulldogs of last year. They have one elite 67s team and a bunch of others who will be fighting it out. If Kingston gets Wright back, yes they should consider making a run. Why wouldn't they? Adding one of the best players in the league with a chip on his shoulder to a team in a playoff spot seems like a good idea.

It is reasonable to try and reacquire those assets but it is completely unreasonable to make the decision that this team needs to be gutted based on 23 games where you didn't have White for half of them and never had Winterton.

Using stats when the team has been missing Winterton and White for large portions of the season is silly. Lets use the data we have when we didn't have the guy who can carry the offensive play and make decisions based on that!
Dude. You are comparing this years Bulldogs team to last years North Bay and Kingston teams. That is insane.

The only thing left to say is “I told you so” but that will only happen in 3 months. I will check back in then.
 
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OHL4Life

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6th in the conference? lol. If they don't trade anyone, they're easily 4th, maybe 5th at worst.

Barries adding, Ottawas adding, NB is adding. Is there an unlimited buyers market? Maybe thats why you're hoping Hamilton sells? need Morrison and Hayes for your squad? The Steelheads are a strong team overall but couldn't score a 5 on 5 goal vs the Bulldogs.

People think the Bulldogs are a step back from the championship team and they are but lets be honest. There is no team outside of Ottawa in the east that would even win a game vs the Bulldogs of last year. If everyone viewed their team like people on here view the Bulldogs, they'd all be selling and handing the title over to the 67s.
i believe the bulldogs view its best long term to take a step back this year to make two steps forward. they are a bit top heavy. morrison is expected to be moved, as he should be.
 

Hammer9001

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1. Over the course of 23 games, the Bulldogs didn't have white. The Bulldogs have a much better record with him in the lineup and have looked like a completely different team. How do you know we will have a weak third line when Winterton gets back? Cole Brown, Xhekaj would be solid wingers for a third line. The only weakness would be center. The trades in 2019 helped but we also had a one in a franchise type team that was above and beyond what is necessary to win a title. This is a team that had multiple injuries to top players and still won the title.

2. Kaliyev was not an overeager but he was drafted and could've been on the Kings like McTavish is this season, so there was some risk in keeping him.

3. Thats what I meant. Trading our overagers at the start of the season didn't mean anything. Obviously if they traded Morrison, Hayes and White they'd be rebuilding.

4. NB won 5-1, HAM won 4-1. How is NB that far ahead of Hamilton? I'm not even saying that yeah we need to make a decision on rebuild or go for it at this time, I'm simply saying wait and see. Instead of giving up two months into the season where the Bulldogs went through trades of their OA's, injuries to a handful of guys, lets see how these guys play in December and January before we crown anyone. By the sounds of it, they could go on a 15 game win streak and you'd still want them to sell at the deadline. Our 3OA's are all good, yes. I don't see how thats a negative. They are not the only team with OA's but they are the only team with OA's of that quality. Winterton coming back does make the second and third lines better because guys like Xhekaj or Humphrey go down to the third line and Winterton could be on the second line with Shrek, which is a much tougher line. You can't expect a championship every year, but you can try for one. If teams traded their core away everytime they didnt expect a championship, you'd only have number 1 seeds as champions every year.
1. Since you are so big on single games, we just lost to Oshawa with White. Yes, he has improved the team, but not by the leaps and bounded needed to contend for a championship run. I know we will have a weak third line, because right now, only our first line is scoring. Winterton is one player, who will likely end up on the second line. You can't magically improve multiple lines with one player. That's not a rip on our current batch of players, they are young and haven't developed yet.

2. There would have been little to no risk in keeping him. An overager Kaliyev goes to the Kings...ok. You then trade for another overager with the draft picks you've accumulated to fill that gap. The importance of having picks available to make trades to fills needs when you load up for a championship seems completely lost on you.

3. As they should. If you keep them, by your own admission, this team will lose in the East final at best, more likely have a second round playoff exit. That's not worth sabotaging the team for the next four years.

4. The team though isn't going to go on a 15 win streak. The team has struggled to get a 4 game streak. You can only wait and see till the deadline, which is fast approaching, and even then other teams will, without a doubt load up which the Bulldogs can't do. Even if the team dramatically improved, over December, you will be player even better competition that the Bulldogs are struggling with now. If you are seriously saying you should try for a championship every year, instead of selling in years where there is little to no possibility of even making it past the 2nd round, yet alone the final then you are completely incapable of understanding how OHL hockey works.

Yes, that is typically how it works and how it shakes out. The top 4 seeds (sometimes not even the lower ranks among them) try to load up and the bottom 4 seeds don't in the playoffs, why do you think that is? Well lets take a look at the most recent champions.

2022 - Hamilton - Top Seed East
2019 - Guelph - 4th Seed West
2018 - Hamilton - Top Seed East
2017 - Erie - Top Seed West
2016 - London - 2nd Seed West (tied on points for first seed)
2015 - Oshawa - Top Seed East
2014 - Guelph - Top Seed West
2013 - London - Top Seed West
2012 - London - Top Seed West
2011 - Owen Sound - Top Seed West
2010 - Windsor - Top Seed West
2009 - Windsor - Top Seed West
2008 - Kitchener - Top Seed West

The Bulldogs are sitting in the 7th seed right now, and have no ability to load up (like Guelph did when the got Entwistle from us). There is little to no point in throwing away the teams future for a 2nd round playoff exit.
 
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Jawk

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Firmly in the camp of moving 02s and 03s. They could maybe win a round as is without moving anyone. 2nd round exit with no picks restocked and OAs graduating and 03 drafted guys moving on to the AHL.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

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1. Since you are so big on single games, we just lost to Oshawa with White. Yes, he has improved the team, but not by the leaps and bounded needed to contend for a championship run. I know we will have a weak third line, because right now, only our first line is scoring. Winterton is one player, who will likely end up on the second line. You can't magically improve multiple lines with one player. That's not a rip on our current batch of players, they are young and haven't developed yet.

2. There would have been little to no risk in keeping him. An overager Kaliyev goes to the Kings...ok. You then trade for another overager with the draft picks you've accumulated to fill that gap. The importance of having picks available to make trades to fills needs when you load up for a championship seems completely lost on you.

3. As they should. If you keep them, by your own admission, this team will lose in the East final at best, more likely have a second round playoff exit. That's not worth sabotaging the team for the next four years.

4. The team though isn't going to go on a 15 win streak. The team has struggled to get a 4 game streak. You can only wait and see till the deadline, which is fast approaching, and even then other teams will, without a doubt load up which the Bulldogs can't do. Even if the team dramatically improved, over December, you will be player even better competition that the Bulldogs are struggling with now. If you are seriously saying you should try for a championship every year, instead of selling in years where there is little to no possibility of even making it past the 2nd round, yet alone the final then you are completely incapable of understanding how OHL hockey works.

Yes, that is typically how it works and how it shakes out. The top 4 seeds (sometimes not even the lower ranks among them) try to load up and the bottom 4 seeds don't in the playoffs, why do you think that is? Well lets take a look at the most recent champions.

2022 - Hamilton - Top Seed East
2019 - Guelph - 4th Seed West
2018 - Hamilton - Top Seed East
2017 - Erie - Top Seed West
2016 - London - 2nd Seed West (tied on points for first seed)
2015 - Oshawa - Top Seed East
2014 - Guelph - Top Seed West
2013 - London - Top Seed West
2012 - London - Top Seed West
2011 - Owen Sound - Top Seed West
2010 - Windsor - Top Seed West
2009 - Windsor - Top Seed West
2008 - Kitchener - Top Seed West

The Bulldogs are sitting in the 7th seed right now, and have no ability to load up (like Guelph did when the got Entwistle from us). There is little to no point in throwing away the teams future for a 2nd round playoff exit.
1. A game without Humprey, Winterton and Brown and they only lost by one. Certainty a cause to blow it up. Your remarks are absolutely a rip on the current batch of guys. Thomas is 18, Drobac is 19, Malboeuf is 18, Gill-Shane is 19, Shrek is 19, Grush is 19, Xhekaj is 18, Donovan is 18, Anderson is 19. These are the guys you've been shitting on for days (non overagers) If you're going to shit on the team, at least have the guts to stand by it.

2. That team without Kaliyev isn't sniffing a championship. Did you watch the 2018 season? They would've had to bring in McDavid to replace Kaliyev. They could barely touch the puck WITH him. Losing him would've been a disaster to the teams chances. Completely different team this year. Bulldogs during the covid year had a god awful coach and the team could never touch the puck. No matter who they played against they were outplayed, taking stupid penalties and were a train wreck in their own zone. Could they have improved with a good coach? maybe but we'll never know because the season was stopped before they found one. Different story with this years team. Well coached, team battles for pucks, team isn't getting dominated in possession time.

3. I never said they would lose in the east finals, I said thats where i'd predict them to go. Things happen. Dudes get hurt. Players improve as the year goes on, guys develop chemistry, goalies can steal a series.

4. The Bulldogs are 7-3 in their last 10. I am not suggesting they got for it every year. I'm suggesting that IF the team continues to play well over the next few months, you go for it. If you think the Bulldogs have no chance to make it past the second round, thats fine. Its just not the reality of the situation. The teams that you are drooling over (Steelheads and NB) are not that good and yeah as a Bulldogs fan I think the team can take the teams they've already beaten.. Answer this question: Is there any record that the bulldogs could have that you would say go for it? or did you already make your mind up before the season started?

By this logic, everyone but the Spirit and 67s should be sellers, correct? Yeah you can be a 4th seed and load up but statistically speaking that seed has only won once. Why take the chance? Unless you have an all-star team you should sell!
 

ohloutsider

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#4 - the Bulldogs can't wait a few months to decide whether to go for it or not. The trade deadline for OA's is Jan 9th and the remaining players Jan 10th. With the trade freeze mixed into that timeline there is about 3 weeks of trading left. I would hazard a guess that the Bulldogs GM has already made up his mind on the teams direction and is likely as are other GM's discussing moves or proposed moves in the very near future.
 

Rounder8

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1. A game without Humprey, Winterton and Brown and they only lost by one. Certainty a cause to blow it up. Your remarks are absolutely a rip on the current batch of guys. Thomas is 18, Drobac is 19, Malboeuf is 18, Gill-Shane is 19, Shrek is 19, Grush is 19, Xhekaj is 18, Donovan is 18, Anderson is 19. These are the guys you've been shitting on for days (non overagers) If you're going to shit on the team, at least have the guts to stand by it.

2. That team without Kaliyev isn't sniffing a championship. Did you watch the 2018 season? They would've had to bring in McDavid to replace Kaliyev. They could barely touch the puck WITH him. Losing him would've been a disaster to the teams chances. Completely different team this year. Bulldogs during the covid year had a god awful coach and the team could never touch the puck. No matter who they played against they were outplayed, taking stupid penalties and were a train wreck in their own zone. Could they have improved with a good coach? maybe but we'll never know because the season was stopped before they found one. Different story with this years team. Well coached, team battles for pucks, team isn't getting dominated in possession time.

3. I never said they would lose in the east finals, I said thats where i'd predict them to go. Things happen. Dudes get hurt. Players improve as the year goes on, guys develop chemistry, goalies can steal a series.

4. The Bulldogs are 7-3 in their last 10. I am not suggesting they got for it every year. I'm suggesting that IF the team continues to play well over the next few months, you go for it. If you think the Bulldogs have no chance to make it past the second round, thats fine. Its just not the reality of the situation. The teams that you are drooling over (Steelheads and NB) are not that good and yeah as a Bulldogs fan I think the team can take the teams they've already beaten.. Answer this question: Is there any record that the bulldogs could have that you would say go for it? or did you already make your mind up before the season started?

By this logic, everyone but the Spirit and 67s should be sellers, correct? Yeah you can be a 4th seed and load up but statistically speaking that seed has only won once. Why take the chance? Unless you have an all-star team you should sell!

It isn't about "shitting" on players and having the guts to stand by it. Maybe he just doesn't want to say that certain teenage hockey players suck.

Also, saying that players aren't good right now isn't necessarily shitting on them.

As for this team, if you seriously think the D core is good enough for any kind of a run then there isn't any point in me debating you.
 

Hammer9001

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1. Lets look at the players you named. Xhekaj is in his first year in the OHL he needs time, but is one of the few goal scorers here with 7. Drobac and Malboeuf are goalies, no goal scoring there, likely Drobac becomes an OA next year as he has performed well and Malboeuf has played 10 OHL games total. The jury is expectedly out on him.

Gill-Shane, Grush and Donovan are all defensemen. They shouldn't be our primary goal scorers (yet Donovan is one of our top 5). Donovan shows promise but he's 18, Grush is close to aging out and likely will be going to Texas soon and they are doing a decent job. Gill-Shane we got for an 8th round pick from Ottawa to fill the gap White left when he was hurt which he did. He hasn't played since Nov 18th, close to when White worked his way back into the lineup, what more would you have me say?

Sherk, Thomas and Anderson have 7 goals combined. Anderson is on his second year in the OHL and has currently matched his last year goal and assist total with 1 each. He's a giant player who sees play on the checking line, which makes sense given his size. Sherk has always been assist heavy (23 last year), and continues to be with 6 this year. Patrick Thomas, same thing, 21 assists last year, 8 this year.

It's not that they are bad players, it's that they are passing forwards without developed goal scorers to pass to of which we have only have two who play on the top line. Even if with Humphrey, Winterton and Xhekaj light it up, you need at least 6-7 guys scoring goals to have the depth you need both to deal with injuries. We have 5, presuming a perfect world, and no ability to trade for another, again due to lack of picks.

Don't call me gutless for pointing out how things are, or that I'm shitting on a team that isn't performing because it is missing key pieces to contend.

2. Are you kidding me? In 2018 we had Robert Thomas, Brandon Saigeon, Matt Strome, Nick Caamano, Will Bitten and Marian Studenic being fed by assist monsters in Mackenzie Entwistle, Ryan Moore, Ben Gleason and Riley Stillman. Yes, Kaliyev lit it up as a rookie that year, and yes he was a big part, but he is not lone reason we won. You are crazy to think he alone carried the team in 2018, especially how we were designed after the Flint trades. Again, it would have been stupid to trade him in 2019 like you suggested, given he had only one year under his belt and we were putting pieces together for a 2021-2022 run (as evidenced by our 2022 win)

3. If you don't think the team is championship ready, that means they aren't. There is no benefit to a franchise to say "We'd prefer to sacrifice our ability to win in the future, for a chance to not win the playoffs today"

4. At this point? Next to no chance. We don't have "few months" to sit on this decision. Trade deadline is the start of January (Correction: I thought it was the 6th, but I guess it's the 10 which is just two more games), which means you have 10-12 games, and in that little of a span. It's not just a matter of the Bulldogs doing well, but also other teams not being in a position to effectively challenge.

The only scenario I could see going for it is not only if the Bulldogs won at least 90% before the deadline, Ottawa and North Bay would have to collapse (which is doubtful) and I'd need minutes before midnight trade in hand to trade Morrison and Hayes, just in case Peterborough, Barrie (who may get Clarke back) or Mississauga loaded up, since I have next to no ability to do so this year. That's just not going to happen.

Could there have been a chance at the start of the season...yeah, I'd say if the team was at 38 points by now and kept hold of the 2nd seed till the dead line, yeah, but that didn't happen and likely wouldn't have happened given how many players we lost. We would have had to have found at least 3 diamonds in the rough to be in that spot, but ifs and buts are candy and nuts.

As far as loading up, again no. I explicitly said 4th seed (and even then not always) or above, before the deadline, and that you have a full cupboard. It's very clear in the east that Ottawa and North Bay are on a different level then the other teams. Now I am to understand Peteborough and Barrie have substantial draft cupboards so they may do it depending on developments this month. Not sure about Missi or Kingston who I don't think have a lot of trading stock, but I haven't been keeping track.

That's the point, if you load up now, that may make you a top seed team. We can't load up, the cupboard is bare. Again, you aren't grasping the importance of having available picks to make deadline trades in the OHL and that if we don't recoup them, we won't be able to contend.
 
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Hamilton Bulldogs

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It isn't about "shitting" on players and having the guts to stand by it. Maybe he just doesn't want to say that certain teenage hockey players suck.

Also, saying that players aren't good right now isn't necessarily shitting on them.

As for this team, if you seriously think the D core is good enough for any kind of a run then there isn't any point in me debating you.
Nobody is saying "call this player out by name" but he specifically said he wasn't shitting on the current roster of players, which is a flat out lie. If the players are 18/19 and not good now enough to be third liners in the OHL, when will they be?

The D core is fine. Grush, Moore, White, Donovon, Van Vliet would be on any teams top 4 in the league.
 

Rounder8

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Nobody is saying "call this player out by name" but he specifically said he wasn't shitting on the current roster of players, which is a flat out lie. If the players are 18/19 and not good now enough to be third liners in the OHL, when will they be?

The D core is fine. Grush, Moore, White, Donovon, Van Vliet would be on any teams top 4 in the league.

Dude, that last sentence is laughable. Seriously? Any teams top 4?
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

Registered User
Jan 11, 2022
4,140
5,901
1. Lets look at the players you named. Xhekaj is in his first year in the OHL he needs time, but is one of the few goal scorers here with 7. Drobac and Malboeuf are goalies, no goal scoring there, likely Drobac becomes an OA next year as he has performed well and Malboeuf has played 10 OHL games total. The jury is expectedly out on him.

Gill-Shane, Grush and Donovan are all defensemen. They shouldn't be our primary goal scorers (yet Donovan is one of our top 5). Donovan shows promise but he's 18, Grush is close to aging out and likely will be going to Texas soon and they are doing a decent job. Gill-Shane we got for an 8th round pick from Ottawa to fill the gap White left when he was hurt which he did. He hasn't played since Nov 18th, close to when White worked his way back into the lineup, what more would you have me say?

Sherk, Thomas and Anderson have 7 goals combined. Anderson is on his second year in the OHL and has currently matched his last year goal and assist total with 1 each. He's a giant player who sees play on the checking line, which makes sense given his size. Sherk has always been assist heavy (23 last year), and continues to be with 6 this year. Patrick Thomas, same thing, 21 assists last year, 8 this year.

It's not that they are bad players, it's that they are passing forwards without developed goal scorers to pass to of which we have only has two who play on the top line. Even if with Humphrey, Winterton and Xhekaj light it up, you need at least 6-7 guys scoring goals to have the depth you need both to deal with injuries. We have 5 and no ability to trade for another, again due to lack of picks.

Don't call me gutless for pointing out how things are, or that I'm shitting on a team that isn't performing because it is missing key pieces to contend.

2. Are you kidding me? In 2018 we had Robert Thomas, Brandon Saigeon, Matt Strome, Nick Caamano, Will Bitten and Marian Studenic being fed by assist monsters in Mackenzie Entwistle, Ryan Moore, Ben Gleason and Riley Stillman. Yes, Kaliyev lit it up as a rookie that year, and yes he was a big part, but he is not lone reason we won. You are crazy to think he alone carried the team in 2018, especially how we were designed after the Flint trades. Again, it would have been stupid to trade him in 2019 like you suggested, given he had only one year under his belt and we were putting pieces together for a 2021-2022 run (as evidenced by our 2022 win)

3. If you don't think the team is championship ready, that means they aren't. There is no benefit to a franchise to say "We'd prefer to sacrifice our ability to win in the future, for a chance to not win the playoffs today"

4. At this point? Next to no chance. We don't have "few months" to sit on this decision. Trade deadline is the start of January (Correction: I thought it was the 6th, but I guess it's the 10 which is just two more games), which means you have 10-12 games, and in that little of a span. It's not just a matter of the Bulldogs doing well, but also other teams not being in a position to effectively challenge.

The only scenario I could see going for it is not only if the Bulldogs won at least 90% before the deadline, Ottawa and North Bay would have to collapse (which is doubtful) and I'd need minutes before midnight trade in hand to trade Morrison and Hayes, just in case Peterborough, Barrie (who may get Clarke back) or Mississauga loaded up, since I have next to no ability to do so this year. That's just not going to happen.

Could there have been a chance at the start of the season...yeah, I'd say if the team was at 38 points by now and kept hold of the 2nd seed till the dead line, yeah, but that didn't happen and likely wouldn't have happened given how many players we lost. We would have had to have found at least 3 diamonds in the rough to be in that spot, but ifs and buts are candy and nuts.

As far as loading up, again no. I explicitly said 4th seed (and even then not always) or above, before the deadline, and that you have a full cupboard. It's very clear in the east that Ottawa and North Bay are on a different level then the other teams. Now I am to understand Peteborough and Barrie have substantial draft cupboards so they may do it depending on developments this month. Not sure about Missi or Kingston who I don't think have a lot of trading stock, but I haven't been keeping track.

That's the point, if you load up now, that may make you a top seed team. We can't load up, the cupboard is bare. Again, you aren't grasping the importance of having available picks to make deadline trades in the OHL and that if we don't recoup them, we won't be able to contend.
1. You are overly obsessing on goal scoring from a team that didn't have its number one offensive d-man for most of the season and one of its best goal scorers in Winterton. Donovon being top 5 goal scoring is a bad thing? Staios was top 5 last year and it didn't seem to be a problem. White and Donovon are elite offensive defenseman and can make up for any lapses the 3rd and 4th line might have in goal scoring.

You're shitting on a team that IS performing. You go crazy over teams the current bulldogs beat head to head all the while claiming the team can't compete with them. Its gutless to do that and then claim "oh i'm not shitting on the team" if you flat out said this team sucks and should sell everyone, I'd disagree but at least it would fit with your argument.

2. I was talking about the season that was cancelled due to covid, not the season the dogs won the cup. We were talking about the season that Kaliyev and Jenik would be on the trade block and that was when Kaliyev and Jenik were carrying the team but the team was a longshot to do anything (they would fire their coach shortly after the TDL, I believe). The season the Dogs won the cup had a bunch of guys that were responsible for it.

3. Just because I don't think they're a championship team, dosen't mean its an impossibility. I doubt many in Kingston thought they were a championship team last year but I doubt many wanted them to sell Wright, despite it being a long shot for them to do anything.

4. I get recouping draft picks but they could do this next season. Could they get as much? nah but I don't think it'll hurt them as much as you're saying. As it stands I don't think NB is on a different level than Hamilton. I think its Ottawa and then everyone else. Could that change with some trades? sure but if the Bulldogs aren't sellers thats one less team that can be pillaged so someone in the east is likely going to be left out.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

Registered User
Jan 11, 2022
4,140
5,901
Dude, that last sentence is laughable. Seriously? Any teams top 4?
Absolutely.

Moore and Van Vilet have all the tools to be a shut down pair and Donovon, White and Grush are pretty self explanatory. Anyone whos watched them knows how good they are and what they bring to a team.
 
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Hammer9001

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
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436
Hamilton
1. You are overly obsessing on goal scoring from a team that didn't have its number one offensive d-man for most of the season and one of its best goal scorers in Winterton. Donovon being top 5 goal scoring is a bad thing? Staios was top 5 last year and it didn't seem to be a problem. White and Donovon are elite offensive defenseman and can make up for any lapses the 3rd and 4th line might have in goal scoring.

You're shitting on a team that IS performing. You go crazy over teams the current bulldogs beat head to head all the while claiming the team can't compete with them. Its gutless to do that and then claim "oh i'm not shitting on the team" if you flat out said this team sucks and should sell everyone, I'd disagree but at least it would fit with your argument.

2. I was talking about the season that was cancelled due to covid, not the season the dogs won the cup. We were talking about the season that Kaliyev and Jenik would be on the trade block and that was when Kaliyev and Jenik were carrying the team but the team was a longshot to do anything (they would fire their coach shortly after the TDL, I believe). The season the Dogs won the cup had a bunch of guys that were responsible for it.

3. Just because I don't think they're a championship team, dosen't mean its an impossibility. I doubt many in Kingston thought they were a championship team last year but I doubt many wanted them to sell Wright, despite it being a long shot for them to do anything.

4. I get recouping draft picks but they could do this next season. Could they get as much? nah but I don't think it'll hurt them as much as you're saying. As it stands I don't think NB is on a different level than Hamilton. I think its Ottawa and then everyone else. Could that change with some trades? sure but if the Bulldogs aren't sellers thats one less team that can be pillaged so someone in the east is likely going to be left out.

K, we're done here. You seem to think sitting 7th is performing well enough for a championship. I just explained to you how I am not shitting on the team and you just regurgitate the same nonsense and engage in personal attacks.

You explicitly said 2018 and sniffing a championship, which was when we won the championship. 2019 we weren't even in contention, we were an eight place team, and now you are claiming that the 2021 team that won without Kaliyev we wouldn't have had a shot in 2020 which is also absurd.

You clearly are seeing the team with rose covered glasses. Myself, Rounder8 and OMG67 have all provided ample and multiple reasons why this team doesn't have even an outside shot and others pointing out other errors in your posts that you refuse to acknowledge. If you think it is unlikely, then it is almost certainly an impossibility.

You don't understand that we have next to no ability to make trades because we don't have picks available to us and need to recoup them. You don't seem to grasp just how many picks you are giving up, just to push on with our OAs for, by your own admission, a less then 50/50 shot of winning the championship.

You also don't seem to acknowledge that major trades like the Flint trades, like Robert Thomas, like Nathan Staios, like Mason McTavish were major reasons in our championship seasons, and that not recouping them sooner rather then later leads to multi-year basement dwelling like we saw happen to Erie.

You also didn't seem to understand when the trade deadline is, thinking we have months to develop guys in December and no amount of valid arguments or points is going to change your mind. You are now on ignore.
 
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dirty12

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
10,141
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I'm comparing North Bay's and Kingstons chances to Hamiltons.

Kingston and North Bay weren't in the same league as the Bulldogs last year. Watching Kingston play Hamilton was like watching some pee wee kids play the local NHL team. It wasn't close and it was never going to be close. Should they have sold because Hamilton made an unbeatable team? no because you give your guys a chance. You let the game play out. You let your roster prove the pundits wrong or at least try to.

This years upper tier of East contenders has no Bulldogs of last year. They have one elite 67s team and a bunch of others who will be fighting it out. If Kingston gets Wright back, yes they should consider making a run. Why wouldn't they? Adding one of the best players in the league with a chip on his shoulder to a team in a playoff spot seems like a good idea.

It is reasonable to try and reacquire those assets but it is completely unreasonable to make the decision that this team needs to be gutted based on 23 games where you didn't have White for half of them and never had Winterton.

Using stats when the team has been missing Winterton and White for large portions of the season is silly. Lets use the data we have when we didn't have the guy who can carry the offensive play and make decisions based on that!
Teams at the top last season were not far apart until the bulldogs acquired Xhekaj & McTavish.
 

Hammer9001

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
848
436
Hamilton
Yeah, but they got a point which ain't bad, gets is just a bit of extra distance on Sudbury and Oshawa. The next game vs the Spits is probably not going to have that silver lining.
 
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