Halo: Infinite (Dec. 8th, 2021) - Xbox Series X

[Mikeaveli]

4,600 people playing on Steam right now lol

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I still have fun playing it but they have to do something. They kept teasing a roadmap in mid February but nothing yet. Needs modes/maps.

 

[AllAbout813]

It’s fun. But playing Streets for the 300th time is starting to weigh on me for sure. 6-7 4v4 maps isn’t going to hold up for much longer. I’m sure (or hope) they realize this.

 

[JaegerDice]

Halo Infinite Community Goes Nuts Over Leaked Forge Mode

 

[x Tame Impala]

@JaegerDice , gotta admit when i'm wrong. Have been playing more MCC the past few days and it's all i can notice, having a useless pistol as your secondary blows unless it's BR starts. H5's pistol I still think was overpowered, but Infinite is a great compromise.

 

[Beezers Mask]

I have to be playing against all PC players because their hits are all 100% headshots at all times. Feels like I’m playing at half health.

also feels like my melee only works half the time. It just doesn’t feel right

I know I’m just bad at the game

 

[Beau Knows]

I have to be playing against all PC players because their hits are all 100% headshots at all times. Feels like I’m playing at half health.

also feels like my melee only works half the time. It just doesn’t feel right

I know I’m just bad at the game

There should be input based matchmaking, I don't know why that didn't carry over from the Halo MCC.

The melee is definitely inconsistent.

 

[Beezers Mask]

There should be input based matchmaking, I don't know why that didn't carry over from the Halo MCC.

The melee is definitely inconsistent.

Glad to know it’s not just me. I admit I’m not great at the game probably average to above average but even considering that there are too many times I feel cheated

 

[Blitzkrug]

That ranked update they announced does nothing to fix the problem.

Reset everyone's rank, sure. But you still miss several glaring issues;

- your stupid ass predictive algorithm making the prospect of ranking up or down illogical. You should not go like 9-1 in a run and somehow lose rank because the game decided you would win those 9 games anyway and the loss you should have also won but lost.

- not having a set cutoff where people could play with each other. An onyx should not be able to party up with his silver buddy.

- having social matchmaking influence ranked matchmaking. The whole point of a social/ranked split is so they don't co-mingle and lead to situations where high ranking players are throwing games in social to get piss easy games in ranked.

- no penalties for leavers

Resetting everyone's rank by 300 points does absolutely nothing to fix the problem and they should ashamed to act like it does.

Congrats 343. Halo is now successfully relegated to a B tier franchise thanks to your mismanagement. Between the lack of content, game modes, overpushing of the store and ranked being a gongshow no one gives a shit about this game.

 

[JaegerDice]

There should be input based matchmaking, I don't know why that didn't carry over from the Halo MCC.

The melee is definitely inconsistent.

There is absolutely input-based matchmaking ranked.

Outside ranked, who really cares, its not like wins or losses matter.

 

[Beau Knows]

There is absolutely input-based matchmaking ranked.

I think didn't work if you had a party of more than 2 people right? Or did they change that?

Outside ranked, who really cares, its not like wins or losses matter.

They don't matter in ranked either lol, but it's nice to have everyone on the same playing field.

 

[chicagoskycam]

There is absolutely input-based matchmaking ranked.

Outside ranked, who really cares, its not like wins or losses matter.

i think the issue is playing non ranked with varying skill levels. My noob friends don’t like playing with me because the high ranks I draw in regardless of game type.

 

[Shockmaster]

I'm pretty sure some players have decided that whenever they get put into a Stockpile game on BTB they're just going to ignore the power cells and treat it like a game of slayer.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'm pretty sure some players have decided that whenever they get put into a Stockpile game on BTB they're just going to ignore the power cells and treat it like a game of slayer.

Pretty much.

Frankly, I've been of the opinion since Halo 2 that objective game modes shouldn't even track kills and/or deaths.

They should only track stats related to the objective.

So for example, in a CTF game (my favorite mode since CE), I don't care about how many kills and deaths you have.

I want to know how many flags you stole from the enemy base. I want to know how far you carried a flag. I want to know how many flags you captured. I want to know how many flag carriers you stopped, I want to know how many flags you returned, I want to know how many flag carriers you saved (similar to the guardian angel medal), I want to know how far you drove with a flag carrier in your warthog, etc.

Likewise, in a mode like Territories in previous games, do I care that you died 20 times if managed to keep a territory for your team while the rest of the team pushed to win the match? f*** no. You're a hero.

This is a problem that goes back to Bungie, and a problem Bungie still has in Destiny PvP. They don't do enough to push and reward actually playing the objective in objective modes. They figure winning is enough, but that only really works for pre-fab teams, not anybody who has to join up with 1-3 randos any given match.

Overwatch, for all its problems, actually did a really good job of rewarding people for playing the objective.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Pretty much.

Frankly, I've been of the opinion since Halo 2 that objective game modes shouldn't even track kills and/or deaths.

They should only track stats related to the objective.

So for example, in a CTF game (my favorite mode since CE), I don't care about how many kills and deaths you have.

I want to know how many flags you stole from the enemy base. I want to know how far you carried a flag. I want to know how many flags you captured. I want to know how many flag carriers you stopped, I want to know how many flags you returned, I want to know how many flag carriers you saved (similar to the guardian angel medal), I want to know how far you drove with a flag carrier in your warthog, etc.

Likewise, in a mode like Territories in previous games, do I care that you died 20 times if managed to keep a territory for your team while the rest of the team pushed to win the match? f*** no. You're a hero.

This is a problem that goes back to Bungie, and a problem Bungie still has in Destiny PvP. They don't do enough to push and reward actually playing the objective in objective modes. They figure winning is enough, but that only really works for pre-fab teams, not anybody who has to join up with 1-3 randos any given match.

Overwatch, for all its problems, actually did a really good job of rewarding people for playing the objective.

Objective games should be all about winning and kills are part of it. Running to the flag repeatedly with no plan and getting killed does nothing for your team. Wiping out the other team and then grabbing the flag in most small maps just about guarantees the capture due to the respawn timers. Kills make a huge difference in strongholds as you can hold points longer. Now, if someone is not capturing or defending points at all that's different. They are usually at the bottom of the team as capture points are relatively easy to get. If you go 4 - 17 in Strongholds you were dead so often you didn't really help the team.

Halo is always best with a group of 4 you know. Randoms are a mixed bag.

 

[JaegerDice]

I jumped into MCC for a few games, but bounced off. It was just too slow, too grounded.

I agree with the complaints regarding the maps and more importantly, map variety. Individually, most of the maps in the game are well thought out and flow well, with a nice mix of high ground and low ground, choke points, flanking routes, and good power weapon/equipment placement. The problem is they all play very similarly, and when the core structure is basically the same in every map, they start to blur together
.
I'd love to some remasters of classic maps from the previous Halo games, but more I'd just like to see 343i stretch their legs and get goofy. With the new mobility options and speed of the game, go ham wild and try making maps like DM17 from Quake 3.

And now, for a very long post....

I just think it's weird how fast you can climb the ladder, whether that's good or bad. And being able to sand bag MMR makes that issue even worse. I'll talk about League of legends ranking system as what I'm familiar with. With a brand new account, to get to their diamond it would take ~100 games with like a 70% win rate in those 100 games. You can do that in like 15 games for halo infinite. You're gunna have more people that don't belong in certain divisions.

Agreed I think I started in high plat five or six for both ranked modes and then fairly quickly moved into Diamond so it was instant sweaty games all the time. However, in the 1-50, I felt like you had this initial phase anyways of easy games until your rank settled in and then it was extremely difficult to move it and we started seeing a lot of players with 2nd accounts or boost accounts

I'm not personally familiar with League of Legends matchmaking, as I've personally never got into the MOBA genre. So I took a look around to see if I could figure out the philosophy of their rankings and the distribution.

It became clear very quickly, that Diamond in LoL and Diamond in Halo are very different. Thanks to the game's popularity, there are a lot of sites that track the distribution of ranking.

If you add up every sub-tier of diamond together in League of Legends, the combined percentage of ranked players in the Diamond 'band' is 1.5%.

By comparison, as of December 21st 2021, the percentage of Halo Infinite ranked players in the Diamond 'band' was 29.6% in Solo/Duo Controller, 28.5% in Solo/Duo MKB, and 18.5% in Open Queue.

The distribution in LoL is not a traditional bell curve, bulk of the population is stuck in the 3 lowest levels.

Here are the percentages for every rank grouping, bottom to top:

Bronze - 29%
Silver - 35%
Gold - 20%
Platinum - 6.6%
Diamond - 1.5%
Master - 0.17%
Grandmaster - 0.045%
Challenger - 0.018%

Compare that to Halo Infinite, which is much more of a traditional bell curve, with the bulk of the population in the mid-tiers.

Halo Infinite Playlist & Challenge Update

I think the great misunderstanding among Halo players right now is that Platinum does not mean great players. It means above-average to good. You need to hit at least Diamond to be great, and even then, you're on the low end of great.

In Halo 2 or Halo 3 terms, a Platinum is like a 25 to 35ish. It's only once you hit Diamond that you're getting into the high 30s and very low forties. And then Onyx is basically 45-50, maybe even 43-50.

The spike in Diamond 1 is a result of the fact that it's the highest level a player can get through the 10-game placement. So it seems a fair number of players get there and then get stuck there, either because they opt not to play anymore than the 10 game intro, or because Diamond is where ranking up REALLY gets tough.

At the end of the day, this just seems like a different philosophy. Halo wants the distribution of players to be a traditional bell curve, while LoL wants the bulk of their population in the lower ranks. I can't say one is better than the other as far as player satisfaction, cause every player is different.

2nd accounts/boost accounts can be fixed simply by prioritizing the highest level in the fireteam. Instead of me being a 35 playing with a friend who is a 2 and getting matched up against a bunch of 17's or 20's, set the lowest possible overall to be something in the 28-37 range.

It's just a very straightforward way of representing how good you are in ranked. Again the current tiers and the 1-6 structure is boring and unrewarding. They brought back MCC, fixed it up, and it flourished. People like the number ranks. It's cooler to look at and lets the people you're playing with/against have a better idea of how good everyone is.

Their needs to be straightforward ranks as well as leaderboards. I think it keeps things fresh and competitive. As it is now, rank is only for one single playlist and it's an obscure designation that that really the only person who sees it is yourself. Contrary to @JaegerDice 's opinion, people do still care about competition and seeing where they stack up against other players.

They'll never be able to bring social public lobbies before/after matchmaking games but they should at least load all 8 of us in H2 and H3 style with everyone's ranks next to their gamertag. Or even just display it next to our gamertag during the armor showoff/pose party we have now instead. Now this is a f***ing rant. This is what i don't understand about the appeal to 343's new system. Rank is relatively meaningless. It serves solely to determine your QoC in each match, what has replaced rank as the carrot on the end of the stick is now just a Battle Pass fueled race to some neon f***ing cat ears or a new samurai elbow pad. Just like Ultimate Team modes there's a system in place that STRONGLY pushes everyone towards grinding weak challenges to get mediocre cosmetic rewards.

There is one single ranked playlist and that's it. Why? Do people really enjoy playing Fiesta AGAIN for no other purpose than to grind for gear. Am I some relic from a bygone era 15 years ago? I want separate ranked playlists for: Slayer, FFA, 2v2, BTB, Objective, even add Attrition or Tac Slayer. But these shouldn't be boiled down to rotations in one single playlist. Ranked is the most fun because you have to get better to win more. I don't know how, why, or when the appeal for that got traded away to get basic color palette's for your armor or have a glowing skull appear over someone's dead body when you kill them with a Ravager in Fiesta.

Ok, well first of all, I never claimed that people didn't care about competition. I very clearly stated that competitive players would turn any ranking system into a dick-measuring contest, because that's what competitive people do. I include myself in that. When I added @HawksFan74 as a friend on XBL and saw he was a Diamond 3 to my meager Diamond 1, you better believe I felt the competitive juices flowing.

My position is simply that the ranking system was never INTENDED as a dick-measuring contest among competitive players, and today, so many years later, it's STILL not the priority or the point. That was an unintended by-product of a system designed by Bungie with 3 clear publicly stated goals in mind:

1) Give players matches quickly

2) Give players matches with the best connection possible while accounting for goal #1

3) Give players the closest, most competitive matches possible while accounting for both goal #1 and goal #2

From the moment the matchmaking system in Halo 2 entered development, Bungie was very much about eliminating as many of those small-dick-energy pub-stomps from the online multiplayer experience as possible. To them, the ideal Halo match is a close, back and forth match that comes down to the wire.

Bungie, likely pushed by the disruption that COD4 presented in the multiplayer FPS, updated their system in Halo Reach. They dropped the numbered ranking in the ranked and social playlists, and simplified it to ranked in Arena (Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Onyx) and switched to a seasonal system that forced players to re-earn their ranks rather than sit on them indefinitely. For those uninterested in ranked play, there was the universal rank that only went up, never down, never reset. It unlocked customization options, and was fed into by every game type, match, etc.

Sound familiar?

Honestly, aside from how things are organized and delivered, the Halo Infinite system and the Halo Reach system are basically the Two Spider-man meme.

1) A seasonal ranked MMR with a player-facing ranking divided into tiers

2) A continuous progression that only accumulates, and unlocks cosmetic items for the player.

Now, there are definitely complaints to be made about how 343i and Microsoft changed the second progression path into a seasonal model and added a store to buy additional cosmetics that are otherwise unobtainable.

But the current ranking system(s) are not this far cry from the glory days of Halo. It's basically a take on the system Bungie left Halo with when they peaced out to make Destiny.

You are a relic. As am I. That's why I've basically dropped multiplayer games wholesale.

Halo was my last bastion of "well maybe this one will be good" only to realize it's the same shit. Game is designed to get you to only care about grinding useless cosmetics with insidious matchmaking to back it up. To put it into perspective, they somehow f***ing ruined Feista. Feista was amazing for just kicking back in but now every game is somehow a total sweat fest.

Even MLB 21 got me in the same loop where I was grinding for the sake of grinding. It's awful

Neither of you are relics. You're both deep in the bedrock of modern gaming tastes, as you both still care about continuous progression match-over-match. Relics are the people that played games pre-matchmaking and ranking systems and leaderboards. The days of Quake and Unreal Tournament, where every match was a separate quantized event entirely detached from whatever happened in the match before or after.

Ironically, the relics probably enjoy Halo Infinite more than you guys because they don't really care about progression. So they can just enjoy each individual match for the single event it is, and for the mechanics and design inherent to the shooting and match flow. The downsides of Halo Infinite are all the stuff around the core gameplay.

It's the modern gamers that care about progression and have firm views of how progression should be designed and delivered that have the most problems with Halo Infinite right now, not the true relics.

Fiesta was always a pretty dumb, mindless mode. I certainly haven't found it particularly sweaty... I'm not sure how you could play the mode that way beyond simply communicating as a team. With random weapons and no on-map spawns, any notions of map or power-weapon control go out the window. You can't gameplan for an opponent with a rocket launcher when you could turn a corner and another opponent also has a rocket launcher. Hell, without utility weapons at spawn, you can't even reliably team-shoot as a strategy.

I don't even play with volume when I'm grinding Fiesta for the event rewards. I listen to podcasts and just shrug off any kill cause it's all completely random. So few of the skills that make Halo distinct get thrown out the window in that mode.

Finally finished the campaign on legendary. One of the easier ones. But these god damn bosses were so annoying, minus the Harbinger which I actually quite enjoyed.

I hate these bullet sponge bosses so much.

Haven't played Legendary yet, waiting for co-op. That said, in Heroic, it was all about the sticky grenades, pulse carbine and needler. The Needler in particular just annihilates pretty much every boss.

 

[JaegerDice]

As a short follow-up to that monster post, I'm sorry you guys aren't enjoying Halo Infinite that much.

I still jump on for hours every week, just cause I enjoy the gameplay so much. I've long since cleared the season pass and have nothing to unlock outside events, but I still jump into quickplay just to enjoy the duels, the holy-shit moments, the comebacks, and to feel my skills with weapons I'm pretty crap with (sniper rifles, as always) improve match over match over match.

I do wish there were more maps, I'd love more modes - particularly objective modes, and I do wish we had Forge, but honestly... there isn't a multiplayer game I put much thought into playing these days. Cause Halo Infinite is just so much more enjoyable moment to moment than any other.

 

[Beau Knows]

It was neat the first week seeing like 80% of the people in my friends list playing the game at some point, it felt like 2007 again. But almost all of those players have moved on because Halo just wasn't their thing in the first place, they don't like this iteration of it, or they're waiting for the rest of the game to be added in.

So to me the F2P approach seems to be a dud. The game hasn't become a massive hit from being free, but it allowed the developers to launch an incomplete, microtransaction-laden product. With the ability to play Halo 1-3 online right now, it has to compete against those games too, and honestly I'd rather play them most of the time.

I think the game will eventually become a true successor that lives up to those original 3 games - the core gameplay is there - but right now as a total package it just isn't there.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I'd love to some remasters of classic maps from the previous Halo games, but more I'd just like to see 343i stretch their legs and get goofy. With the new mobility options and speed of the game, go ham wild and try making maps like DM17 from Quake 3.

For sure. I'd prefer 343 to make their own maps well ahead of just replaying MCC maps. I was saying that as a quick fix to the lack of map diversity to toss some MCC maps into the rotation. Basically just filler spots until 343 designs more maps they think fits Infinite.

I very clearly stated that competitive players would turn any ranking system into a dick-measuring contest, because that's what competitive people do

Do you mean general competitiveness or in the "pro gamer" sense?

From the moment the matchmaking system in Halo 2 entered development, Bungie was very much about eliminating as many of those small-dick-energy pub-stomps from the online multiplayer experience as possible. To them, the ideal Halo match is a close, back and forth match that comes down to the wire.

I'm confused by this chunk in general. If this in reference to the "pro gamer" crowd then yes i'd agree. MLG was so much of a barrier between the casual/very good Halo player and the elite guys who are all level 50's. It was only a dick measuring contest basically in social lobbies where some douche would cycle through all the playlists to show off his lvl 34 in Doubles. The number-rankings were designed for the 3 reasons you mentioned. I'm still a little confused by what you mean with this point specifically.

But the current ranking system(s) are not this far cry from the glory days of Halo. It's basically a take on the system Bungie left Halo with when they peaced out to make Destiny.

Structurally yes. They're very similar. But 343 only has one ranked mode and you're playing on one of 7 different maps. It feels extremely constricting, de-incentivized towards the gamer, "Hey don't worry about ranked, come play the next Tenrai event to unlock another level on your Battle Pass...THAT'S what you really want to care about"...are my impressions so far.

he days of Quake and Unreal Tournament, where every match was a separate quantized event entirely detached from whatever happened in the match before or after.

Brings back memories of playing Counter Strike Online for the OG XBOX. My first time playing shooters online. I remember the clan matches and how insanely tense they were. How there wasn't any sort of relevant ranking system and IIRC a clan leader would just log the match results on a website afterwards. Man! memories. We'd all be f***ing around in some game lobby until the clan leader would say he found a match for us and then we'd be off. Simpler times

As a short follow-up to that monster post, I'm sorry you guys aren't enjoying Halo Infinite that much.

I still jump on for hours every week, just cause I enjoy the gameplay so much. I've long since cleared the season pass and have nothing to unlock outside events, but I still jump into quickplay just to enjoy the duels, the holy-shit moments, the comebacks, and to feel my skills with weapons I'm pretty crap with (sniper rifles, as always) improve match over match over match.

I do wish there were more maps, I'd love more modes - particularly objective modes, and I do wish we had Forge, but honestly... there isn't a multiplayer game I put much thought into playing these days. Cause Halo Infinite is just so much more enjoyable moment to moment than any other.

I've put a lot of hours into Infinite already and the gameplay is next to perfect. Honestly. I think i'd be enjoying it more if i were playing with a squad of friends but since that's not realistic the individual experience of the game could be much more fun, polished, efficient.

 

[Soedy]

Man, I much prefer the MCC. Don't know why, but something just feels off. I only logged 30 multiplayer hours.

Tried to play yesterday, ranked. Got a ping of 165ms, absolutely horrible.

Next up was fiesta, I don't know, why exactly I still fire up this mode, but whatever. Ofcourse I got launch site. Whoever thought this would be a good 4vs4 map needs a wake up call.

This game needs some new, cool maps (snow, anyone?) and new playlists (KotH, Social Slayer BR).

 

[x Tame Impala]

I'm reading that with the new rank reset it heavily prioritizes KDA over anything else so if you get an objective mode...good luck because there's no incentive to playing the objective if you're going to finish a game 15-12-7 rather than staying back and finishing 14-7-4 but losing the game. That, and there are apparently people tanking their 10 games so they can place lower than they should on purpose.

343 is killing ranked play

 

[Beau Knows]

I'm reading that with the new rank reset it heavily prioritizes KDA over anything else so if you get an objective mode...good luck because there's no incentive to playing the objective if you're going to finish a game 15-12-7 rather than staying back and finishing 14-7-4 but losing the game. That, and there are apparently people tanking their 10 games so they can place lower than they should on purpose.

343 is killing ranked play

I just don't see the need for any fancy metrics other than wins and losses (with quality of competition taken into account).

I know that that system allows people to get carried to ranks higher than what their individual skill level would allow, but that's just a part of team games. Teams have different levels of players in them, but they win and lose together. I'd understand if it mattered at all, but the ranks are just there for motivation and matchmaking purposes, it's not for actual competitions or tournaments.

And like you allude to it's incredibly hard to figure out exactly how valuable every player was, especially in an objective mode. When a team captures the flag who is the hero? Is it the guy who killed everyone in the enemy base the hero? Or is it the guy who picked up the flag? Or is it the guy who escorted him and took a rocket to save him?

 

[x Tame Impala]

I just don't see the need for any fancy metrics other than wins and losses (with quality of competition taken into account).

I know that that system allows people to get carried to ranks higher than what their individual skill level would allow, but that's just a part of team games. Teams have different levels of players in them, but they win and lose together. I'd understand if it mattered at all, but the ranks are just there for motivation and matchmaking purposes, it's not for actual competitions or tournaments.

And like you allude to it's incredibly hard to figure out exactly how valuable every player was, especially in an objective mode. When a team captures the flag who is the hero? Is it the guy who killed everyone in the enemy base the hero? Or is it the guy who picked up the flag? Or is it the guy who escorted him and blocked a rocket to save him?

This is also why there should be seperately ranked playlists: Objective, Slayer, 2v2. The system is overly complex while also constricting the user experience. Objective modes should prioritize how many times your flag gets captured, how many zones you capture/defend/recover, how much Oddball time you have/ball carriers killed, etc...343 misses here completely.

Either make the ranking simple with a black and white W/L prioritization or prioritize the relevant match results if you want to get complex.

 

[chicagoskycam]

This is also why there should be seperately ranked playlists: Objective, Slayer, 2v2. The system is overly complex while also constricting the user experience. Objective modes should prioritize how many times your flag gets captured, how many zones you capture/defend/recover, how much Oddball time you have/ball carriers killed, etc...343 misses here completely.

Either make the ranking simple with a black and white W/L prioritization or prioritize the relevant match results if you want to get complex.

It just needs to be points-based as you gain considerable points for captures and ball time and Wins. For instance, on my team, I'm much better at killing people and defending the ball carrier than the group I play with so the team is typically better off when I'm not holding the ball. I will also drop the ball to pick off one-shot guys to help defend and some teammates don't get that concept. It's four on 1 and they will hold the ball until death, at least do some damage so hopefully, your team can clean up as they are coming back.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Man, I much prefer the MCC. Don't know why, but something just feels off. I only logged 30 multiplayer hours.

Tried to play yesterday, ranked. Got a ping of 165ms, absolutely horrible.

Next up was fiesta, I don't know, why exactly I still fire up this mode, but whatever. Ofcourse I got launch site. Whoever thought this would be a good 4vs4 map needs a wake up call.

This game needs some new, cool maps (snow, anyone?) and new playlists (KotH, Social Slayer BR).

They definitely need some new maps and honestly, that's a very easy task. I'm not sure what they are doing. I pretty much play ranked so it's four maps all day. How hard is it to drop an old H2 or H3 map in the game?? If they wait till season 2 (May) the player base will be nonexistent along with summer. My only guess is they are really focused on the BR.